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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Elttharion

Learned
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Jan 10, 2023
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2,806
I'm curious how this timeline would look, if Steam never became a thing. Would something else take its place? Would we still be able to buy “DRM-free” disc based PC games? Would PC gaming be dead, or perhaps in a better place, with less shovelware? Would the indie sphere ever explode without a store like Steam? Etc, etc.
Stardock already had a digital store platform before Steam. Blizzard also already Battle Net, tho I dont remember if you could directly buy games there. Xbox had a big indie program before Steam.

Steam biggest advantage was how agressive in pushing Steam they were with their own games and that these games were hugely popular at the time.
 

mediocrepoet

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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'm curious how this timeline would look, if Steam never became a thing. Would something else take its place? Would we still be able to buy “DRM-free” disc based PC games? Would PC gaming be dead, or perhaps in a better place, with less shovelware? Would the indie sphere ever explode without a store like Steam? Etc, etc.
Stardock already had a digital store platform before Steam. Blizzard also already Battle Net, tho I dont remember if you could directly buy games there. Xbox had a big indie program before Steam.

Steam biggest advantage was how agressive in pushing Steam they were with their own games and that these games were hugely popular at the time.

HL2 started it and Orange Box was like a crowbar prying open the gates to push adoption.
 

Morgoth

Ph.D. in World Saving
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4-mountains-of-salt-collected-in-salt-pans-by-cargill-salt-works-bruce-beck.jpg
 

Caim

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Aug 1, 2013
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Dutchland
Oh boy, can't wait for them to stop making games.

Unless of course Gaben REALLY hated Risk of Rain.
 

gooseman

Educated
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Sep 5, 2024
Messages
225
What's going on with all the lawsuits and license agreement changes? A bunch of law firms got tens of thousands to sue them, because the agreement includes a waiver of class action suits, but also Valve promised to pay $10k of your legal fees regardless of the outcome. That's an assload of money, and they're trying to weasel out of it, which seems like it's not happening.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,110
What's going on with all the lawsuits and license agreement changes? A bunch of law firms got tens of thousands to sue them, because the agreement includes a waiver of class action suits, but also Valve promised to pay $10k of your legal fees regardless of the outcome. That's an assload of money, and they're trying to weasel out of it, which seems like it's not happening.
Wasn't the TL/DR they made it easier for class action suits but harder for individual arbitration? Something like the plaintiff has to show up in person at the county where valve is headquartered?
 

deuxhero

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Flowery Land
Apparently it used to be mandatory arbitration (a concept that should be burned in its entirety: Access to courts is natural right "which can neither be bartered away nor taken from them by any earthly power"), but then Valve realized they were vulnerable to the arbitration spam tactic (the same kind Patreon was, deservedly, hit with) and a third party vendor they used for arbitration actively tried to screw them, so they said "Fuck it, no more arbitration. Sue us instead if it's that big an issue." Whatever the origin, commentators I trust on this field (one a lawyer, one an expert on EULA-roofieing) say the new agreement is entirely better for you.
 

deuxhero

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Flowery Land
Yes
Also


When I read it without knowing that it was a removal of forced arbitration I saw the only part applicable to me was forcing jurisdiction to Washington (not ideal but entirely understandable to include in a contract) and wondered what could have changed (I was wondering if this was another round of some Euro law forcing everyone, even outside of applicable regions, to get "we updated our ToS" emails).
 

ghardy

Educated
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Jun 18, 2024
Messages
323
Steam will now warn customers at checkout that they're only buying a digital license to a game
[Emphasis added]

Steam now shows customers a message to let them know that they're buying a license when making a purchase through the storefront, rather than any outright ownership. The change has been implemented internationally in response to new California legislation due to take effect next year.

When viewing a game in your Steam shopping cart, a message is now shown under the "Continue to payment" button. "A purchase of a digital product grants a license for the product on Steam," it reads. A link underneath goes to the Steam Susbcriber Agreement, which explains the terms of the license in more detail.

The new California legislation, AB 2426, which was signed into law in September, is designed to warn customers of the potentially transitory nature of digital purchases. Storefronts cannot use terms such as "buy" or "purchase" without sufficient caveats explaining the nature of the agreement to customers.

Some digital game purchases are excluded, such as in instances where the game can be downloaded and played permanently offline. GOG, for example, which offers downloadable DRM-free executables for all games sold, doesn't need to offer any such caveats.

That prompted the storefront to do a good bit of trolling today. "Since checkout banners are trending, we're thinking of putting one up ourselves. Thoughts on this one?", they tweeted. The proposed checkout banner reads: "A purchase of a digital product on GOG grants you its Offline Installers, which cannot be taken away from you."

gog-checkout.png.webp


Typically when a game is removed from sale on Steam, it remains playable in the libraries of those who previously bought it. Other storefronts have removed games from libraries outright, however. Earlier this year, Ubisoft closed down The Crew, rendering the online racing game entirely unplayable, after which some players reported it had vanished from their Ubisoft Connect libraries.
 

gooseman

Educated
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Sep 5, 2024
Messages
225
Some digital game purchases are excluded, such as in instances where the game can be downloaded and played permanently offline. GOG, for example, which offers downloadable DRM-free executables for all games sold, doesn't need to offer any such caveats.

That prompted the storefront to do a good bit of trolling today. "Since checkout banners are trending, we're thinking of putting one up ourselves. Thoughts on this one?", they tweeted. The proposed checkout banner reads: "A purchase of a digital product on GOG grants you its Offline Installers, which cannot be taken away from you."
But they do sell games with DRM. And an "offline installer" isn't the same as owning a game and being able to play it forever. It just means you can install it. Which you can do with any game that has an installer. So yeah, nice "trolling".
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Well, you can do whatever you want with that installer, as in giving it away, or pass it down to your kids for when your final dungeon crawl arrives. On Steam, you always (9 times out of 10 at least) need to log in to a specific account to play (which is illegal to share, according to their TOS). That's how I understand it.

I'm waiting for the day when digital products can be resold, then we are talking ownership for real. However, that's a new minefield.
 

ghardy

Educated
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
323
I'm waiting for the day when digital products can be resold, then we are talking ownership for real. However, that's a new minefield.
A lot of the NFT pushers keep trying to persuade us that:

"BrO, NFT tEcH Is gOiNg tO ChAnGe tHe cOnCePt oF DiGiTaL OwNeRsHiP."
 

ds

Cipher
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There is a small but important difference between a non-revocable perpetual license plus a self-contained artefact that lets you install the software whenever you want versus an always-online client that you are legally required to use to launch your games. Traditional software sales were as close to "ownership" as you can get to a copy of information, which is why pesky things like the first-sale doctrine apply to them.
 

Morgoth

Ph.D. in World Saving
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  • Advanced Physics and Interactions: Half-Life 3 might feature a deep level of interaction with the environment, allowing players to manipulate fire, temperature, and materials. This is hinted at by the introduction of "surface attributes" in recent Deadlock updates, which define how different materials react to player actions and the environment.
  • Immersive Simulation: Valve seems to be aiming for a highly immersive experience, with dynamic systems affecting NPC behavior, weapon availability, and resource distribution based on player choices and the surrounding environment.
  • Open-Ended Gameplay: A quote from David Speyrer in "The Final Hours of Half-Life: Alyx" suggests that Half-Life 3 might incorporate procedural generation alongside handcrafted experiences to create a more open-ended gameplay experience.
  • New Development Tools: Valve may be utilizing new voxel-based systems and tools to achieve a higher level of player freedom and interaction with the game world. This could lead to more dynamic and destructible environments.
  • Experienced Team: Valve has been recently hiring talent from various studios like ID Software, Sucker Punch, Machine Games, Insomniac Games, and Naughty Dog, suggesting a strong focus on level design, artistry, and single-player experiences. Former Valve employees, including the creator of the Half-Life: Caged mod, have also returned to Valve.
 

ghardy

Educated
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
323
How Valve Founder Gabe Newell Built One Of The World’s Most Profitable Videogame Companies
0x0.jpg

[Emphasis added]

...

While Newell is still the company's leader (considered the president even though Valve is the sort of left-coast outfit where no one actually has a title), he’s rarely at Valve’s offices these days and hasn’t attended an in-person company event in years. Since the pandemic, Newell has apparently been living at sea on one of his five ships (the collection is worth an estimated $500 million; Newell is worth an estimated $9.5 billion and owns an estimated 50.1% of Valve. Employees own the rest.) The increasingly reclusive mogul hasn’t given an interview since 2022 and declined to speak to Forbes for this story. He isn’t on social media. He doesn’t go to Davos or give TED Talks. His appearance at the 25th anniversary event was limited to a few brief cameos in an hour-long documentary on the company’s history.

...

Recent legal filings (some mistakenly unredacted) reveal two key facts about Valve: it has sustained a more than 40% operating profit margin for a decade, and it has often been more profitable per employee than some of the most valuable companies in the world, including Amazon, Alphabet and Microsoft. Last year Valve had its best year ever, booking an estimated $5 billion in revenues. That works out to about $14 million in sales per employee for its roughly 350 employees.

...

It’s an insanely good business. The platform requires little upkeep and few employees. Publishers upload their games independently; gamers download them. At any given moment, more than 30 million gamers are using the platform to message friends, buy games, store data and play on one of the more than 100,000 titles available. Everything else is a minnow by comparison. The second most popular online game distributor, Epic Games Store, from the developer of Fortnite, peaked at 36 million daily active users in 2023 and has 2,900 titles. GoG.com, a PC gaming storefront owned by Polish developer CD Projekt RED, has about 10,000 games.

...

Newell has offered no public comment on Valve’s future in several years. Indeed, the entrepreneur, who is richer than ever, appears to be spending less time on Valve and more on personal passion projects. His involvement at Valve seems to have taken the form of a rarely visiting celebrity rather than a hands-on CEO. Since Covid, Newell, whose past hobbies have included race cars, knife collecting and Tuvan throat singing (a bellowing, throaty singing traditional to Central Asia) has been largely living on his yachts in an intense effort to avoid the virus.

Newell is spending time on two new enterprises: Starfish Neuroscience and Inkfish. Starfish, which has offices near Valve in Bellevue and was spun-off from Valve in 2022, is working on the “next generation of neural interfaces,” and LinkedIn lists Philip Sabes, who helped start Elon Musk’s Neuralink, as a co-founder. Inkfish runs a mini-fleet of six ships and several submarines; it is a self-described “philanthropic fundraising service” that conducts maritime research. Neither company responded to requests for interviews.

0x0.jpg


“From the outside looking in, it doesn't feel that Valve’s the same anymore,” Van Dreunen says. “There's a sort of absentee landlordism going on that wasn't there 20 years ago. … It's natural for leadership to cycle out. That distance naturally occurs. It's not a personal attack of any sort. It's just, what would it look like if 2004’s Gabe Newell was running the ship now?”
 

lycanwarrior

Scholar
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
1,487
Steam will now warn customers at checkout that they're only buying a digital license to a game
[Emphasis added]

Steam now shows customers a message to let them know that they're buying a license when making a purchase through the storefront, rather than any outright ownership. The change has been implemented internationally in response to new California legislation due to take effect next year.

When viewing a game in your Steam shopping cart, a message is now shown under the "Continue to payment" button. "A purchase of a digital product grants a license for the product on Steam," it reads. A link underneath goes to the Steam Susbcriber Agreement, which explains the terms of the license in more detail.

The new California legislation, AB 2426, which was signed into law in September, is designed to warn customers of the potentially transitory nature of digital purchases. Storefronts cannot use terms such as "buy" or "purchase" without sufficient caveats explaining the nature of the agreement to customers.

Some digital game purchases are excluded, such as in instances where the game can be downloaded and played permanently offline. GOG, for example, which offers downloadable DRM-free executables for all games sold, doesn't need to offer any such caveats.

That prompted the storefront to do a good bit of trolling today. "Since checkout banners are trending, we're thinking of putting one up ourselves. Thoughts on this one?", they tweeted. The proposed checkout banner reads: "A purchase of a digital product on GOG grants you its Offline Installers, which cannot be taken away from you."

gog-checkout.png.webp


Typically when a game is removed from sale on Steam, it remains playable in the libraries of those who previously bought it. Other storefronts have removed games from libraries outright, however. Earlier this year, Ubisoft closed down The Crew, rendering the online racing game entirely unplayable, after which some players reported it had vanished from their Ubisoft Connect libraries.


 

Cheeki Blyat

Literate
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2024
Messages
9
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Hopefully HL2 20th anniversary releases when before the happening begins
 

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