The oldest WRPG with decent writing

[Boomer_007]

Many people say that Final Fantasy 4 is first real story-driven JRPG, with worthy writing and ok-ish plot- / character-presentation. Some others mention Phantasy Star 2 and other late-80's games.

But what with WRPG's? Ultima 7? Betrayal at Krondor? Maybe Martian Dreams? Or something older?

 

[Sigourn]

Define "decent".

I haven't played cRPGs from the Golden Era (late 80s, early 90s) but they appear to suffer from the "a geeky nerd wrote this in his basement for his D&D session" syndrome. However, I've heard a lot of praise going for Betrayal at Krondor, and with that kind of setting, one has high hopes for Martian Dreams.

Final Fantasy IV may have been a story-driven JRPG (certainly not the first, however, just the most popular without a doubt), but the writing leaves a lot to be desired, what with party members constantly dying (except they don't really die) and none of those deaths having a fraction of the emotional punch Aerith's death in Final Fantasy VII does (which, again, doesn't have that big of an emotional punch).

 

[Tigranes]

Depends on the bar for decent.

Betrayal at Krondor might be the first well-written CRPG.

If we use FF4 as the bar for decent writing, then surely Ultima 4 is in the mix at least.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fallout.

 

[Viata]

Depends on the bar for decent.

Betrayal at Krondor might be the first well-written CRPG.

If we use FF4 as the bar for decent writing, then surely Ultima 4 is in the mix at least.

Ultima 4 has a better plot than FF 4.

 

[Tigranes]

That's what I mean.

 

[felipepepe]

I also vote for Betrayal at Krondor as the best example.

Before that the best you would get were Ultima's extremely limited keywords, or a bunch of paragraphs in a manual that felt like something straight out of a generic D&D module, like Temple of Apshai.

Neal Hallford's first game, Tunnels & Trolls, is text-heavy and well written but it's just a fancy CYOA:

Ultima IV has a far better plot than FF4, but FF's delivery is miles ahead. There are no real conversations in U4, you basically just get exposition and riddles one after another.

I mean, this is dialog in FF4:

ROSA: What happened? One second you're being sent to Mysidia, the next you're being sent off to kill some ghastly monsters. And you've been acting strange since you came back.
CECIL: No, it's nothing...
ROSA: Then please don't look away...
CECIL: In Mysidia... I killed innocent people, plundered their village, and stole their crystal, all for what?! Why did I do such a thing? It's as if my heart has become as dark as my armor!

And this is Ultima IV:

PLAYER: NAME
IOLO: Iolo
PLAYER: JOB
IOLO: I play for the people.
PLAYER: PLAY
IOLO: I play my lute and receive the good wishes of the people.

 

[Infinitron]

But what with WRPG's? Ultima 7? Betrayal at Krondor? Maybe Martian Dreams? Or something older?

These are the most well-known ones. One thing you have to remember is that physical storage space was actually a significant limiting factor on text in the old days, moreso in RPGs where it had to share that space with lots of graphical assets, massive game worlds, etc. There's a reason all the games with good writing suddenly appear in the early 1990s when hard drives became the standard. For good writing in early computer games, you probably have to go to the Infocom text adventures.

 

[Dyspaire]

Tunnels and Trolls is the earliest crpg I can think of where I actually noticed the in-game prose was more than just serviceable.

Now there are some manuals for games that pre-date T&T that had some decent-enough writing...

 

[Boomer_007]

If we use FF4 as the bar for decent writing, then surely Ultima 4 is in the mix at least.

I don't think FF4 is the bar. It has many silly plot elements and I don't want to compare JRPG's with western counterparts in terms of plot, because it's two very different realms. FF4 is just an example of the game that many people mention when they talk about one of the very-first JRPG with "flash out story" and decent writing. So I'm wandering - are we have something like this for the western RPG.

Maybe "decent" it's when the game has attention to plot, some character developing and dialogs / writing without cringe-factor like "written by professional programmers".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

JRPGs never advanced beyond the dialogue level of when they branched off from blobbers.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Off the top of my head, Wizardry 6 is the earliest example where I enjoyed the actual prose. For story it's probably Ultima 4.

 

[The Avatar]

Pool of Radiance 1988.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Narrative writing in CRPGs was a mistake.

 

[mondblut]

There are no real conversations in U4, you basically just get exposition and riddles one after another.

I.e. they did it the right way.

 

[The Avatar]

Ultima V was pretty good too, also 1988. I agree Ultima IV was a little light on story, but Ultima V certainly had a story with Lord British getting lost in the underworld, the introduction of the Shadowlords and Lord Blackthorn/corruption of the virtues.

 

[Kum Kum Supreme Imperator]

Wasteland, even if it a was a bit too cheesy and that they used printed paragraphs to read.

Envoyé de mon EML-L29 en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Reality]

No RPG character ever written has the depth of Charlie Brown.

 

[deuxhero]

Ultima IV has a far better plot than FF4, but FF's delivery is miles ahead. There are no real conversations in U4, you basically just get exposition and riddles one after another.

I mean, this is dialog in FF4:

ROSA: What happened? One second you're being sent to Mysidia, the next you're being sent off to kill some ghastly monsters. And you've been acting strange since you came back.
CECIL: No, it's nothing...
ROSA: Then please don't look away...
CECIL: In Mysidia... I killed innocent people, plundered their village, and stole their crystal, all for what?! Why did I do such a thing? It's as if my heart has become as dark as my armor!

And FF4's text is heavily hurt by the translation. It was very slimmed down and translated by non-native English speakers, with only occasional editing done by natives in places (There's one bit in the manual that shows an earlier version used "quay", because they relied so heavily on dictionaries and had no idea how obscure that word was, but it was thankfully replaced with "dock" after editing.).

Still, despite this the writing is decent even though the gameplay is pretty terrible: Your party is fixed and equipment is nearly always a straight upgrade so fights are at best puzzles and at worst grind gates.

 

[Grauken]

Off the top of my head, Wizardry 6 is the earliest example where I enjoyed the actual prose. For story it's probably Ultima 4.

Wizardry 7 for me, it's very purple prose but it fits so well and really remains in your head long after you've finished the game

 

[Nifft Batuff]

My first rpg where I cared significantly for the story was Torment. Before that, maybe I cared a bit for the story in the latest Ultima games (excluding 9 and including the underworlds)

 

[V_K]

No mention of Quest for Glory?
One of the very few series, old or new, where NPCs felt like they had actual personalities. Plus it hits the very delicate balance of funny, serious and charming, which is no small feat in itself.

 

[Jvegi]

No mention of Quest for Glory?
One of the very few series, old or new, where NPCs felt like they had actual personalities. Plus it hits the very delicate balance of funny, serious and charming, which is no small feat in itself.

The same with SC2, but they're definitely not traditional RPGs. If you wanted to really fish for a game with good writing in which you play a role, develop and make decisions, then you could even go with something like Wing Commander. Shaky ground.

 

[V_K]

No mention of Quest for Glory?
One of the very few series, old or new, where NPCs felt like they had actual personalities. Plus it hits the very delicate balance of funny, serious and charming, which is no small feat in itself.

The same with SC2, but they're definitely not traditional RPGs. If you wanted to really fish for a game with good writing in which you play a role, develop and make decisions, then you could even go with something like Wing Commander. Shaky ground.

QfG has classes, stats that determine how you approach situations, leveling and (somewhat optional) combat. It's much more RPG than 90% "traditional RPGs".

The Summoning that had a short story in the manual that was a lot better than a short story in a game manual from 1992 has any business being.

It also spoiled the big ending twist

 

[octavius]

Dungeon Master from 1987. The short story in the manual was written by a professional writer.