Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Canus]

As far as I know he's heading up an EA division dealing with Command and Conquer these days.

 

[Jaesun]

As far as I know he's heading up an new un-named as yet BioWare division dealing with Command and Conquer these days.

Fixed. We can only hope for Tank Romance. <3

 

[Alex]

God, I love those cartoony Might and Magic graphics. Early games may have had better combat, but 3-5 were so full of charm. I suppose hoping Ceneghem quits EA and jumps into the Kickstarter bandwagon would be a bit too much, right?

 

[Excidium]

Early games may have had better combat

How so?

 

[Alex]

I kinda agree with Octavius here:

The combat is a bit too fast and simple to my taste.
As a combatfag I think MM2 was the best of the old MM games.

 

[Sceptic]

I'm using the preconfigured Gog.com version so I didn't really set anything up. According to the config file it's using the Soundblaster 16 emulation. What exactly do you want to know?

SB music in WOX (well, everywhere really) sounds TERRIBLE. I don't know how the GOG version works, but if you can try to set things up so you use DOSBox's MT-32 emulation (with a CM-32L ROM, as the game uses that module's specific sounds). It's not as essential as I made it sound, but it does make the experience more enjoyable.

Looking through old issues of CGW I was rather disappointed that Scorpia's role in MM3 was not mentioned in the preview, reviewe or tips for MM3.

I think the only place we saw her opinion was in that article with mini-reviews she did at some point in the early 90s (might've been two of them actually), and she spoke quite highly of the game. I've always wanted to know how JVC felt about her liking the game in which he mocked her for shredding the previous game...

Sadly I don't have a picture of the real Scorpia with which to compare the MM3 picture.

Nobody does. Nobody knows her real name either (well, presumably Russell Sipe did, according to Johnny L. Wilson). It was a running joke for a LONG time. (that, and Fred's other half)

 

[Falkner]

Hm, I've just compared the music via YouTube and I actually prefer the SB sounds. They may not be as authentic as the Roland sounds, but they sound much warmer to me and lack that hint of whimsy (which almost always just annoys me).
I also found a video that used the FluidR3 soundfont, and by god, it sounds glorious! I hope there is some way of integrating this into DosBox.

 

[Jaesun]

:summon: Sceptic

IIRC WoX was written for the Sound Canvas which is infinitely batter.

 

[groke]

SB music in WOX (well, everywhere really) sounds TERRIBLE. I don't know how the GOG version works, but if you can try to set things up so you use DOSBox's MT-32 emulation (with a CM-32L ROM, as the game uses that module's specific sounds). It's not as essential as I made it sound, but it does make the experience more enjoyable.

Or better yet, buy an SC-55 (non-mkII).

 

[Sceptic]

Sounds just as good with the mkII actually. And I have some (unconfirmed) suspicion that WOX is the only game ever to uses some of the mkII-specific sounds.

Also, that would have been my first suggestion, but I doubt I can convince anyone to buy a real SC at this point. Jaesun had to work pretty hard to convince me... (and I don't regret a thing)

Jaesun, agreed, but trying to play WOX in SC mode with a non-GS MIDI module is asking for trouble (remember all that shit with the telephone ring instead of door creak?)

 

[octavius]

Early games may have had better combat

How so?

In MM3 there are no ranks; all characters are in the front line. In MM2 there were font and rear ranks, the size of the front rank dependent on the terrain.
In MM3 there is no textual feedback on hits and damage, just blood splatter and sound effect, which translates to having less control. For full descpription of spells and how much damage they do you need the official clue book.
Overall MM3 is less tactical, but looks prettier. OTOH MM3 throws more "realistic" encounters at you; not a random mix of monsters. But generally I prefer "fun" to "realism" in games. To me the real improvement of MM3 compared to MM2 is the more consistent world, like dungeons being saved when you exit them.
It feels like MM3 moved away from its Wizardry roots and moved closer to Ultima and real time blobbers with its more simplistic combat. MM2 had a nice, fat manual where everything was explaimed, while the manual for MM3 feels more like an Ultima manual.

It would be interesting to know what other games those who voted MM2 (like me) in the poll prefer, compared to those who voted MM3-5.
Do the MM3-5 fans prefer Ultima, while the MM2 fans prefer the Gold Box or Wizardry games, for example?
For me the ranking is GB > MM > Wizardry > Ultima.

 

[Alex]

Hey octavius, as I said, I agree with you. But seeing the enemies before you got into melee and being able to attack them with ranged attacks went a long way in keeping 3~5 from being "simple". Ideally, I would love to see a game with 3~5's graphics, exploration and enemy visualization with 2's combat options and depth. Maybe add a little bit of variety to character options like the later Wizardries too.

By the way, my own classification is Ultima > Wizardry > Might & Magic. I haven't played the Gold Box games yet enough to make up my mind where they fit, but I am working on it.

 

[Luzur]

Jon van Ceneghem is a funny guy.

Most of you probably know the story, but anyway, Scorpia gave MM2 a rather bad review in Computer Gaming World.
He got back at her in M3:

That special attack - Poison - was a "nice" touch.
Looking through old issues of CGW I was rather disappointed that Scorpia's role in MM3 was not mentioned in the preview, reviewe or tips for MM3.

But Jonnie-boy didn't stop at that. He also introduced himself as one of the heroes - the Good Paladin, of course - in MM3:

Here's a picture of the real JVC:

Sadly I don't have a picture of the real Scorpia with which to compare the MM3 picture.

i thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now? the Scorpia thing and Jon van Caneghem cameo was known way back in the 90's.

and the Scorpia thing was mentioned in a Might and Magic guide book, she also knowns about what they did.

 

[octavius]

i thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now? the Scorpia thing and Jon van Caneghem cameo was known way back in the 90's.

Well, as I said: "Most of you probably know the story, but anyway"

and the Scorpia thing was mentioned in a Might and Magic guide book, she also knowns about what they did.

All the official guide books says is:

Scorpia, because they are commonly found
with Reapers, are known as the Mistresses of
Death. They are open to all attacks but their touch
is poisonous.

 

[Jaesun]

I haven't played the Gold Box games yet enough to make up my mind where they fit, but I am working on it.

You should stop everything you are doing now and go play them. Now.

You will thank us all later, and finally say WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING! WHY DIDN'T I PLAY THIS SOONER!

 

[Luzur]

i thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now? the Scorpia thing and Jon van Caneghem cameo was known way back in the 90's.

Well, as I said: "Most of you probably know the story, but anyway"

oh, missed that.

and the Scorpia thing was mentioned in a Might and Magic guide book, she also knowns about what they did.

All the official guide books says is:

Scorpia, because they are commonly found
with Reapers, are known as the Mistresses of
Death. They are open to all attacks but their touch
is poisonous.

one of the unofficial books then, i know i read it a long time ago, where the author interviewed her and asked her about it, and that she "feeled honored about it in a tongue in cheek way" and took it as a "joke between fellow gamers" or something close to that.

she discussed how she play RPG's and what tactics she used etc.

 

[Falkner]

Jaesun, agreed, but trying to play WOX in SC mode with a non-GS MIDI module is asking for trouble (remember all that shit with the telephone ring instead of door creak?)

That fucking telephone ring.
I have tried for hours and haven't found a single soundfont that works correctly, so I guess I will be stuck with the SB audio. Hopefully it will work with other games.

The dwarf king is history by the way and it continues to be fun. I've cleared Rivercity of the robbers and the sorceresses, killed the vampire count in Nightshadow, cleared out the Witch's Tower and helped Castleview with their gremlin problem. My party is at levels 10-12. Comparing equipment is a bit annoying, as is constantly curing status effects. Still, at this rate this will be the first game I will finish since playing through PST and Fallout in spring last year and that's saying something.

 

[Wolfus]

Falkner: FluidR3 souns great! I am downloading it now and I am going to try it in the evening. Thanks!

 

[Falkner]

It sounds great for the music. But everytime you step through a door, it plays the sound of a ringing telephone instead because it doesn't have the original door opening sound.

 

[Wolfus]

I don't care, I'll use it with Guitar Pro

 

[Sceptic]

I have tried for hours and haven't found a single soundfont that works correctly, so I guess I will be stuck with the SB audio. Hopefully it will work with other games.

It will with those that stick to a pure General MIDI specification rather than Roland's GS variation. Pagan for example doesn't use any GS tones, so it'll work there (and while I don't know what it'll sound like, I bet it'll be better than the shitty Windows software synthesizer). For WOX, no soundfont will work; Roland made very certain that actual GS soundfonts don't exist. You could try Roland's Virtual Sound Canvas, but that will only work on XP and older. Doesn't sound as good as a real Sound Canvas but a hell of a lot better than the Windows synth (also, doors and other sounds play properly). If you don't want to go that way, at least get the MT-32 emulation working; it'll still sound miles better than SB, and WOX actually does make pretty good use of the MT-32 to emulate something resembling SC sound. It's really worth it for Darkside music, which is awesome. I'll post comparisons when I get home tonight.

The dwarf king is history by the way and it continues to be fun. I've cleared Rivercity of the robbers and the sorceresses, killed the vampire count in Nightshadow, cleared out the Witch's Tower and helped Castleview with their gremlin problem. My party is at levels 10-12. Comparing equipment is a bit annoying, as is constantly curing status effects. Still, at this rate this will be the first game I will finish since playing through PST and Fallout in spring last year and that's saying something.

EDIT: As promised here's the comparison.




NOW try to tell me SB is "better"

 

[Wolfus]

Even with SC it sounds... cheesy. I don't like midi music in games. Still the same trumpets and jingle bells

 

[Falkner]

I have tried for hours and haven't found a single soundfont that works correctly, so I guess I will be stuck with the SB audio. Hopefully it will work with other games.

It will with those that stick to a pure General MIDI specification rather than Roland's GS variation. Pagan for example doesn't use any GS tones, so it'll work there (and while I don't know what it'll sound like, I bet it'll be better than the shitty Windows software synthesizer). For WOX, no soundfont will work; Roland made very certain that actual GS soundfonts don't exist. You could try Roland's Virtual Sound Canvas, but that will only work on XP and older. Doesn't sound as good as a real Sound Canvas but a hell of a lot better than the Windows synth (also, doors and other sounds play properly). If you don't want to go that way, at least get the MT-32 emulation working; it'll still sound miles better than SB, and WOX actually does make pretty good use of the MT-32 to emulate something resembling SC sound. It's really worth it for Darkside music, which is awesome. I'll post comparisons when I get home tonight.



EDIT: As promised here's the comparison.




NOW try to tell me SB is "better"

The Sound Canvas version does sound great and I would love to play it with that. The problem is: I don't own one (and don't really want to spend money on it), I use Win 7 and the soundfont I found that was based on the Sound Canvas had the telephone ring as well. So that leaves me with either the SoundBlaster or the MT32. You're going to hate me for this: I still prefer the SoundBlaster. Not by much. But even though some of the instruments sound rather cheap in the SB version, it has much more warmth to its sound and I like that. The MT version just sounds so... cold and analytical. Difficult to describe, but in this case the blips and blops sound much more charming. Some of the Darkside stuff sounded better, though, so I might switch it at some point.
I do think that the Roland thingies generally are an enormous improvement and some of the stuff on Jaesun's YT channel sounds fantastic. The intro music of Pagan really impressed me. It's just such a shame that versions that work don't really meet my strange expectations and the ones that I do like don't work for various reasons.

Oh, and a short question: Should I finish the CoX part of the game first and then switch over to DoX? Or can I mix it up a bit without having to worry about balancing issues?

 

[empi]

Depends what you do in DoX. If you go into towns and do some pretty easy puzzle quests you can get fairly unbalanced amounts of exp. Personally, I generally stuck to CoX, but went around DoX every once in a while for something a bit different.

 

[Falkner]

Okay, that was pretty much what I had in mind.