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The Legend of Heroes Thread - Trails of Cold Steel in the Sky

Jacob

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About TitS' incest subplot, is it really that offensive?

Yes. Not because "icky incest ew", but because it's purely fetishistic. In a way it reminds me of all those scenes/shots that Tarantino sticks in his films that become universally awful in retrospect once you learn about his foot fetish. In Trails' case, the distinction of the fact that they're literal adopted siblings serves no other purpose than to indulge the creepy sexual fantasies of a specific type of creator/player.

Cold Steel, aside from more incest, also has other stuff like this in the form of weird ass head petting. To give one (of many) example(s), I played through a scene recently where you meet a character's father, and when you think they're going for a hug, the father's character model pretzels its body so that he's holding his teenage daughter with one hand and petting her on the fucking head with the other. The scene is contorting itself in an unnatural way in order to line up with the bizarre and unrealistic conceptions of human interaction held by your average weeb fuckface.

The scene, rather than simply being a normal emotional moment where a father hugs his daughter, becomes this sort of fucked up, weird, and laughable display of relationship power politicking so that the writers don't have their beady eyed player base getting emasculated at the thought of a man that's not their self-insert protagonist fully embracing their waifu.

The same thing applies to Estelle and Joshua: Instead of the actual thrust of the relationship (friendship blossoming into love) taking precedence, it instead becomes secondary to the theme of "fuck me hard, onii-chan", because that's what gets the weebs hot, sweaty, and invested. They're not legitimately attempting to portray incest, they're just pandering, and it brings down the quality of their work. They're essentially putting this in the middle of an otherwise perfectly good story.
I see, thanks for the explanation. Personally I don't mind the pandering incest, since it's a game aimed at the Japanese otaku audience. And at least, it tries to satisfy the audience, rather than being the author's personal fetish like what Tarantino did.

If a western game developer tries to do that, though, they should be punished with whatever divine judgement is fitting for a weeaboo.
 

Malpercio

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I disagree.

I never had issue with Tits "Incest" (it's not even real incest, ffs) sub-plot because of the way it is presented.

We are introduced to a 10 years old Estelle meeting Joshua for the first time, the game already established they are not real sibling, they are basically two kids who just meet and pretend to be sibling. For like what, a couple of years? Alert the press.

I, the player, never saw their relationship as that and always knew their "sibling relationship" was a scam (especially from Joshua side). I never felt like there was any intent to trick the player into some weird incest sub-plot.

Cold Steel incest on other hand is fucking weird and looks straight out from a Light Novel. I cringed when I talked to my party member and they all basically went "WOW YOU DIDN'T NOTICE REAN? YOU ARE SUCH A AIRHEAD, HOW COULD YOU NOT NOTICE YOUR SISTER WANTED YOU TO FUCK HER". Literally EVERYONE did that. And the way their relationship is presented is also basically completely different.
 

Atlantico

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We are introduced to a 10 years old Estelle meeting Joshua for the first time, the game already established they are not real sibling, they are basically two kids who just meet and pretend to be sibling. For like what, a couple of years? Alert the press.

Apart from the beginning, where Joshua is brought (apparently falsely?) into the family (because he's totally not for realzies adopted), where did the game present Estelle's POV of Joshua as anything but her actual brother? She treats him as her brother, calls him brother, thinks of him as her brother. Where does Estelle's father indicate that he does not consider Joshua to be his son? Where does Joshua indicate that he doesn't consider himself as Estelle's brother and is perfectly eligible to bone her?

At the end? Yes well. Apart from that?

I, the player, never saw their relationship as that and always knew their "sibling relationship" was a scam (especially from Joshua side). I never felt like there was any intent to trick the player into some weird incest sub-plot.

OK, elaborate. From Joshua's side, where and how was this "sibling relationship" evidently a scam? Also, if the entire incest sub-plot was erased, what would be lost? Nothing. The story would literally not change.

I, the player, always considered them actual siblings because that's how they presented themselves to the world and behaved towards each other (excepting the end) -- except of course for the airheads you meet who all basically are saying WOW YOU DIDN'T NOTICE ESTELLE? YOU ARE SUCH A AIRHEAD, HOW COULD YOU NOT NOTICE YOUR BROTHER WANTED YOU TO FUCK YOU?

Conversations with other characters on that topic were always just dumb and weird and creepy. I've never pl,ayed this Cold Steel game, but the way you describe it, it sounds like Trails in the Sky as far as fucking derpy incest plots are concerned.
 

Crooked Bee

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Dunno about ToCS, but when it comes to TitS, I think the incest stuff is really in the eye of the beholder.

By which I mean, ease up on watching anime, sheesh. I didn't even notice any of that stuff until you guys blew it out of proportion ITT.
 

Malpercio

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Joshua never saw Estelle as his sister. He was in love with her from the first moment/beginning. That's why it is a scam.

Estelle may call Joshua her "brother", but he freacking isn't! He's some dude she meet like, what, 5 years ago? It's not like they grew up together since they were infants. If that was the case, I'd agree it would be fucking creepy. She was ten. Not an adult, but certainly not a baby.

She knew they are not related, he knew, everyone knew. She can pretend they are brother and sister, but at the end of the day he's just a dude she meet 5 years ago she's playing a game of pretend.
 

flyingjohn

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Even though i am not a fan of the "incest" part i fail to see how anybody didn't notice that ever since the first chapter the npc are hinting the things that Malprecio said.
Not to mention that from the second chapter (the play at the academy) the game literally starts acknowledging the "incest" through Estelle thoughts.
It is a cliche trope,but no different from the rest of the story(evil organization want to take over the world,super powered dad,benevolent ruler etc).
 

CryptRat

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I stopped playing TiTS because of incest (in the very beginning of the game when Joshua played music I immediately had a doubt because Japan but I also thought that, OK, the atmosphere is childish and down-to-earth, that would be out of the place even more than in another game, and then there were the dialogs with NPCs mentioned by Atlantico then I stopped playing because that was already more than I could bother and the reactions of Estelle suggested what would certainly come next...That's sad because the game was cool otherwise.
If you consider it worse in Cold Steel I don't think that I will ever give this series another chance.
 
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Malpercio

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Joshua never saw Estelle as his sister. He was in love with her from the first moment/beginning. That's why it is a scam.

Estelle may call Joshua her "brother", but he freacking isn't! He's some dude she meet like, what, 5 years ago? It's not like the grew up together since they were infants. She was ten. Not an adult, but certainly not a baby.

She knew they are not related, he knew, everyone knew. She can pretend they are brother and sister, but at the end of the day he's just a dude she meet 5 years ago she's playing a game of pretend.
Joshua never saw Estelle as his sister. He was in love with her from the first moment/beginning. That's why it is a scam.

Headcanon is a powerful thing.

That's literally what Joshua said in the ending of the FC. "You had me from the first moment"
 

Atlantico

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That's literally what Joshua said in the ending of the FC. "You had me from the first moment"

You say that as if it means something. When I played through the game I couldn't help but take note of the relationship between Estelle and Joshua, mostly because the game is constantly pestering us with how great siblings they are. Constantly. If there's anything that's made very clear is how they are very normal siblings, despite one of them being adopted. And he is, which means something actually.

Never *ever* in the game apart from the very end - as I already mentioned - is it even indicated the Joshua has any interest in Estelle - and Estelle never though of Joshua until every fucking weirdo in the game was trying to get the to fuck.

Even though all other creepy characters in the game think that fucking your sister is the thing to do, Joshua actually denies this completely and without question in the derpy high-school chapter.

I'm not judging, if the game was going for incest, fine. I guess. But until the end it wasn't. It could have been a story of awkward sexual discovery of two teens who never really had any meaningful contact with other people because of circumstances and start feeling sexual tensions... but it wasn't. It was just derp. Opposite of smart.

It was cheap, superfluous and yeah the game never presented this as a thing until the very last chapter of the game.

Why was it there? Did it change the story? No. Does it change motivations? No. Was it there for fucked up weebos? Ho-yeah.
I never knew I wasn't a fucked up weebo until I played this game. Now I know.
 

Jacob

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I just started playing Nayuta no Kiseki now, it's using the Ys7 engine I think. Doesn't have official english translation but I found a fan translation of it. Played on emulator using ppsspp.

mKiKymc.jpg


It has jumping (And thus, platforming, like in Ys6 engine games). The pace is slower than Ys 7, which is already slower than 6. Each area is separated as "Stages" with optional missions and collectibles that will be ranked at the end of each stages

45vBqZR.jpg


Though gameplay is not as great as Felghana, I always enjoyed more Ys-like games that has a story other than "Adol lands in a new place and saves the day."


P.S. LOL at the incest stuff being such a big deal. I already knew it was at least going to be at least discussed by the characters from the very beginning, and it actually happening never really bothers me at all. Since, you know, anime.
 
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Atlantico

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P.S. LOL at the incest stuff being such a big deal. I already knew it was at least going to be at least discussed by the characters from the very beginning, and it actually happening never really bothers me at all. Since, you know, anime.

No, anime is as varied as anything. Perhaps the anime you watch is all about incest. Who knows, but lol it's anime doesn't fly.
 

Jacob

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P.S. LOL at the incest stuff being such a big deal. I already knew it was at least going to be at least discussed by the characters from the very beginning, and it actually happening never really bothers me at all. Since, you know, anime.

No, anime is as varied as anything. Perhaps the anime you watch is all about incest. Who knows, but lol it's anime doesn't fly.
It's nice to see anyone here who knows anime enough to say that. I rarely see full-blown incest stories myself aside from the hentai stuff, actually. It's just that when Estelle start blushing when everyone mentions about her and Joshua, I just think, yeah, whatever, anime, I like her blushing face tho'.

And, re-reading your posts above, it seems you'd love it if the incest stuff is done right. So, I won't argue with your preferences.
 
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I just finished this game five minutes ago (Cold Steel).

I have never, in my entire life, EVER seen something jump the shark as hard and as fast as this game jumps it. I can't even comprehend what I'm feeling right now. I don't know if I'm annoyed, impressed, upset, or jubilant. I don't know if I'm in love with how brilliantly stupid this game got, or if I utterly loathe it for the same reasons.

What the fuck
 

flyingjohn

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I just finished this game five minutes ago (Cold Steel).

I have never, in my entire life, EVER seen something jump the shark as hard and as fast as this game jumps it. I can't even comprehend what I'm feeling right now. I don't know if I'm annoyed, impressed, upset, or jubilant. I don't know if I'm in love with how brilliantly stupid this game got, or if I utterly loathe it for the same reasons.

What the fuck
Is the combat at least more difficult and demanding then the trails in the sky series?
And how is the npc dialogue?(I mean is it plagued by the obvious personafication of the game or is on the same level as the previous entries?)
Been wondering about getting the game for the ps3 and i can handle stupid plot but boring combat is a big problem for me(especially in a jrpg).
 

aweigh

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people, give me the tl;dr

is this game worth playing?

jrpgs i like, for reference: earthbound / mother 3, ff4/6/7/12, suikoden 1/2, xenogears, vagrant story, dragon quest series in its entirety, ni no kuni, FF-T (does anyone NOT like it? heh), valkyrie profile, persona 1/2 for the ps1 (not 3 and 4), phantasy star series 1/2/3/4 (not online garbage), ETC.
 

Jacob

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people, give me the tl;dr

is this game worth playing?

jrpgs i like, for reference: earthbound / mother 3, ff4/6/7/12, suikoden 1/2, xenogears, vagrant story, dragon quest series in its entirety, ni no kuni, FF-T (does anyone NOT like it? heh), valkyrie profile, persona 1/2 for the ps1 (not 3 and 4), phantasy star series 1/2/3/4 (not online garbage), ETC.

Trails in the Sky:
Fantasy-Steampunk setting. Standard JRPG story, but the character is fleshed out. There's orbal arts system, which is like materia in FF7. Combat is grid-based, but the field is simple, more like Banner Saga than FF-T(Even more simple than Banner Saga, actually).

Might be too easy for you though.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
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There's really no good middle ground in Difficulty settings for SC.

Hard Mode enemies deal around 3x damage that Normal mode does. I lost the TUTORIAL battle just because I wasn't prepared for mobs that can kill you in 2-3 hits and I think it gets worse past that. I don't think Nightmare Mode is winnable except for NG+ players.

Normal Mode's the same generally ho-hum difficulty from the original with a few rough spots.

There's really not. On one hand this is one of three games ever that made me give any amount of fucks about the story instead of dismissing it as pretentious prattling about shit I don't care about. On the other the game mechanics are merely acceptable, and the difficulty settings are the worst I've seen where everything except like 2 fights are a sleepwalk on the lower difficulties but raising the difficulty just makes you mathematically incapable of winning without NG+ (which just makes the first 80% of the game hit you for 0 and die in 1 hit), or TAS levels of luck (tutorial boss 2 hit kills you, often double turns you even with your party hasted, outdamages your heals, and doesn't die in 2 rounds from even your best attacks so damage racing doesn't work). And the worst part is it's only like that early on, later you're right back making even that fuck off optional boss hit you for 0 on Nightmare so...
 

Malpercio

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I just started playing Nayuta no Kiseki now, it's using the Ys7 engine I think. Doesn't have official english translation but I found a fan translation of it. Played on emulator using ppsspp.

mKiKymc.jpg


It has jumping (And thus, platforming, like in Ys6 engine games). The pace is slower than Ys 7, which is already slower than 6. Each area is separated as "Stages" with optional missions and collectibles that will be ranked at the end of each stages

45vBqZR.jpg


Though gameplay is not as great as Felghana, I always enjoyed more Ys-like games that has a story other than "Adol lands in a new place and saves the day."


P.S. LOL at the incest stuff being such a big deal. I already knew it was at least going to be at least discussed by the characters from the very beginning, and it actually happening never really bothers me at all. Since, you know, anime.

Nayuta is great, the plot is kinda meh but the gameplay is what Ys 7 should have been. Really fucking ffffun.
 

Siveon

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people, give me the tl;dr

is this game worth playing?

jrpgs i like, for reference: earthbound / mother 3, ff4/6/7/12, suikoden 1/2, xenogears, vagrant story, dragon quest series in its entirety, ni no kuni, FF-T (does anyone NOT like it? heh), valkyrie profile, persona 1/2 for the ps1 (not 3 and 4), phantasy star series 1/2/3/4 (not online garbage), ETC.

Bruh, you came to the right guy. I'm playing this shit right now, and it's making me a full-on Falcom fanboy. I'm never good at putting my opinions on paper but I hope this explains it eloquently. So, basically, I think this game is worth playing for a guy of your tastes. Talking about Trails in the Sky: FC, btw. SC I heard was more of the same and Cold Steel might be a lot more different.

For one, the storyfaggotry is pretty good. It's no Planescape, but the world and characters actually feel like characters that...you know, give a shit? The NPCs do shit with their lives that don't pertain to you, on the other hand if it does, the game almost always makes of note of it. Seriously, this is the game for people who like to wonder what NPCs do after the quest is over. I found myself going out of my way to talk to the NPCs. Yeah, I know, right? The writing also brings the rather generic backdrop world a little more oomph. There's just not much to fault here, besides the wincest subplot and early 00s anime character designs.

Alright, big whoop. Writing doesn't suck. How about the combat? Also surprisingly above average. Falcom didn't want to break boundaries with this one, so the combat is basically the culmination of an initiative system (similar to FFX, I think?), materia, and SRPG-ish movement on a flat plain. Which works really well in its favor, which makes some regular battles be a challenge. Now, I'm playing on Hard right now (on the final chapter), so I'm not sure if this is the same on Normal - but aside from some boss fights, I liked it. The initiative system is a real draw, depending on the characters speed and a good 'ol fashioned initiative roll (not shown) characters duke it out in order. Obviously you can mess with that with some slow downs, speed ups, and other lovely buffs/debuffs. You can also plan out criticals and other boosts as they appear on the initiative bar. So you might use a longer spell to get that critical. So I called the magic in this game (Orbament) materia for a reason. It's magic stones that boosts your stats and give you magic. I never played FF7 but I'm positive it's a similar concept. You can craft quartz (roll with it) gathered from dead beasts (or just find 'em/get 'em) that will increase a certain element. Certain combinations/amounts of elements give you different spells, and each person has a different grid where they can allocate these quartz with different conditions. Oh yeah, and each character has their own separate skills and a limit break. It's not that complex by any means, but I think there's enough there to have something to chew at.

Lastly, graphics and sound. Enough music variety to keep you entertained, and the graphics are charming in their own right. Think early PS2/PSP and you'll see what I mean. There's enough detail in the environment that does make the upscale from the older PSP version look worth it. After twiddling with the graphics so they don't give me a headache it looks decent. If you can stand each model looking like it was cut from the same mold.

Oh yeah, XSEED gets an A++ for localization/port job. I alternate between using a mouse and PS2 controller all the time.

I have Trails of Cold Steel in my collection and I plan on jumping right onto SC after this.
 

aweigh

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that's a good write-up. it's been a loong loong time since i've played a good jrpg. the last one was ni no kuni and more recently been playing DQ9 but i don't think dq9 counts as a straight jrpg; it's more western-influenced in its systems, and always has been since day 1. it's ironic because dq1 is probably considered THE "original jrpg". the series focus has never been on dramatic anime-ish story telling either, or even non-anime story-telling, further distancing it from what's considered a straight jrpg.

so yeah, last one was ni no kuni which i enjoyed but was far too eas and before that i think it was... ff12 on ps2? i think? i have no recollection of anything japanese in-between those two. i'll try out this one. for whatever reason the screenshots give me a suikoden 1/2 vibe though it probably won't reach those heights.
 

aweigh

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less than 15 minutes of real-world gameplay time into the game and already this:








desuuu kawaaaiii oki oki SUGOOOOOOYYYY *splash*
 

SCO

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I warned you not to do this, don't come crying when you're all invested at the end and come raging and try SC only to come back raging harder.

I want to defenestrate whoever was the writing manager at falcom.
 

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