Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Nano]

BGEE is better than the original but the amount of bugs in IWDEE means it's not the same with IWD (and that's after 9 years of patches).

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Loot is different in the EE and accounts for a wider and more readily available spell selection.

 

[Taim]

cretin

It's funny because right after I posted this I found your thread asking the same thing.

Anyway - I'm undecided on SCS. Given how IWD is structured I have a feeling it might REALLY make for some crazy uneven spikes in difficulty - given how different the encounter designs in IWD are (a LOT of melee with very few casters). I feel like this would make little change to something like the Vale of Shadows while making Dragon's Eye even harder than it is. DavidW has a good pedigree but I'd probably want some other people to test this thing out before I go all in on it.
Although Better General AI might be nice all around. Better Calls for Help might work assuming one group of mobs doesn't attract the entire dungeon at once.

Nano

It was actually your post in that thread that's convincing me to do the EE.

The EE does have other less avoidable issues. Like the use of BG2's proficiency table and the addition of spells that the game wasn't balanced around. The former requires using CDTweaks to revert, the latter requires occasional googling to see if the spells you want to use were in the original.

Depending on how autistic I feel about the spell changes I might just look shit up like you said here. If it's just a matter of those two things - I might go this route.

You say there's a bunch of bugs that haven't been ironed out though? Can you elaborate on that at all? I thought this was pretty stable - with that nagging collision issue being resolved by Bubb's Pathfinding Fix (if it even shows up at all).

 

[Average Manatee]

BG2 proficiences does make the game arguably a bit harder since there's more of them and you don't get more points. But them Beamdog compensated by spreading a few new items around, which also gives you more money. But then money becomes pretty useless around Dragon's Eye and especially by the Hand so not a huge deal. There's also some extra spell scrolls available (so more than 1 arcane caster can be decently supported), and this includes some overpowered BG2 spells (like timestop), but the overpowered stuff is only itemized so late that it's practically postgame.

There's only like 3 kits that really imbalance IWD1EE (Berserker, Sorcerer, Archer). The rest are mediocre or a mild reshuffling of abilities, and I wouldn't worry about them trivializing the game or anything. If its the first time you've played in a decade then you're probably fine without them but for anyone who replays more often they add a bit of spice and team building depth to play with. The one other thing to watch for is the Half-Orc race which gives +1 THAC0 and +2 damage over an 18/91 fighter (which is the most I'd ever intentionally roll for, though I have rolled 18/00 a few times before).

SCS for IWD1 doesn't appear to be doing any ridiculous tactics-like buffs to enemies so It's probably fine to play. And if the AIs gets kits then that arguably justifies using some of them yourself.

IWD1EE has been completely stable for me btw and I've played a few times.

 

[Nano]

You say there's a bunch of bugs that haven't been ironed out though? Can you elaborate on that at all? I thought this was pretty stable - with that nagging collision issue being resolved by Bubb's Pathfinding Fix (if it even shows up at all).

Charm Person and Horror are broken, just off the top of my head. Charm dissipates after like ten seconds, Horror doesn't work at all. If they can't even get starting-level spells right, who knows what else isn't working like it should.

 

[Average Manatee]

You say there's a bunch of bugs that haven't been ironed out though? Can you elaborate on that at all? I thought this was pretty stable - with that nagging collision issue being resolved by Bubb's Pathfinding Fix (if it even shows up at all).

Charm Person and Horror are broken, just off the top of my head. Charm dissipates after like ten seconds, Horror doesn't work at all. If they can't even get starting-level spells right, who knows what else isn't working like it should.

Ehh?

 

[Nano]

You say there's a bunch of bugs that haven't been ironed out though? Can you elaborate on that at all? I thought this was pretty stable - with that nagging collision issue being resolved by Bubb's Pathfinding Fix (if it even shows up at all).

Charm Person and Horror are broken, just off the top of my head. Charm dissipates after like ten seconds, Horror doesn't work at all. If they can't even get starting-level spells right, who knows what else isn't working like it should.

Ehh?

From 2015: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41674/horror-spell-not-taking-effect

The issue was still around when I played with 2.5 and the 2.6 patch notes didn't mention it.

 

[Average Manatee]

I have EEFixpack installed but I don't see that mentioned in their readme. Either they or Beamdog must have fixed it.

 

[octavius]

cretin

It's funny because right after I posted this I found your thread asking the same thing.

Anyway - I'm undecided on SCS. Given how IWD is structured I have a feeling it might REALLY make for some crazy uneven spikes in difficulty - given how different the encounter designs in IWD are (a LOT of melee with very few casters). I feel like this would make little change to something like the Vale of Shadows while making Dragon's Eye even harder than it is. DavidW has a good pedigree but I'd probably want some other people to test this thing out before I go all in on it.
Although Better General AI might be nice all around. Better Calls for Help might work assuming one group of mobs doesn't attract the entire dungeon at once.

I think Vale of Shadows and especially the Tomb will be all but impossible if the undead get Call for Hell Help scripts.

 

[Average Manatee]

Vanilla IWD1 already had a lot of SCS features like call for help and mage pre-buff scripts. It wasn't universal but IIRC it was actually the inspiration for SCS to add those things to BG1/2. I'd assume either not literally every fight gets those features or the range of it is calibrated to not aggro the entire map.

 

[Average Manatee]

Figured I'd give a go at IWD1 with SCS since its snowing outside now and felt appropriate.

Half Orc F/C
Half Orc F/T
Human Berserker (not sure if I'll dual to cleric or mage, set for cleric but might go mage instead depending on spell availability/new spells)
Elf Archer
Skald (I forgot before when mentioning OP kits, this is one of them).
Dragon Discipline

Going with the most EE abusing party possible since I know it will annoy people here . All melee dual wielding since of course that's also something you weren't allowed to do in IWD1 non-EE.


So far most of the orc caves aggroed at once except the final fight, but they aggroed over time in like waves so it was quite managable. I guess because as my melee walked forward through the incoming enemies they then called further back into the cave.

 

[Average Manatee]

Hmm, SCS seems to break things now. Enemies intended to talk with you go hostile before they do so. Presumably the call for help script is aggroing them? For example Mytos in Kresselak's tomb.

Enemies were definitely pretty swarmy. Vale of shadows had a good number of enemies that got aggroed based on being close radius-wise to me but having a really convoluted path to reach me, meaning they'd show up minutes later. In the tombs it was a meatgrinder... or bonegrinder I guess.

 

[Taim]

Interesting. Thanks for the update.

I don't want every fight in IWD to be the Bandit Camp in Baldur's Gate. I'll probably pass on Better Calls For Help.

 

[The Jester]

I feel bad for Special Edition's creator, his work got completely overshadowed by IWD2EE.

 

[Jigby]

It's Tessera vs. Wesp all over again. RIP Tessera.

 

[KainenMorden]

Has anyone played iwd2ee with the changes to spell durations, etc?

 

[Lagi]

did anyone (Lilura) review Icewinddale 2 Enhanced Edition aka Red Chimera?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

This is news to me. With the engine reworked, does this means that Icewind Gate could possibly happen? I bekieve it was engine issues that caused the original attempt to fizzle. A 3E Baldur's Gate saga would be thrilling.

 

[cretin]

did anyone (Lilura) review Icewinddale 2 Enhanced Edition aka Red Chimera?

a couple pages back I made some comments and posted some pictures.

It's very good IMO, actually its impressive. They've managed to implement things that people used to assume were engine limitations - for example grappling works, trips, AoOs. The way they've implemented AoOs without having the AI just eat shit all the time is really rather elegant.

Theres some dumb arbitrary changes, but overall I think they've taken the half baked product that was IWD2 and turned it into a finished one.

 

[NecroLord]

did anyone (Lilura) review Icewinddale 2 Enhanced Edition aka Red Chimera?

a couple pages back I made some comments and posted some pictures.

It's very good IMO, actually its impressive. They've managed to implement things that people used to assume were engine limitations - for example grappling works, trips, AoOs. The way they've implemented AoOs without having the AI just eat shit all the time is really rather elegant.

Theres some dumb arbitrary changes, but overall I think they've taken the half baked product that was IWD2 and turned it into a finished one.

How does Trip work in the game?
I'm guessing not quite as in the oficial rulebook?

 

[catfood]

One thing to note about the mod is that it is modular, so you can have a more vanilla or a more balls to the walls experience depending on your preferences. I have finished the mod and with the options that I chose the game was definitely easier than it used to be. I think they also reworked some of the classes. For example in my playthrough the monk was an unstoppable powerhouse, easily counting up to at least 40% of the kills in the party, whereas in the vanilla I seem to remember the monk being severely underpowered. There is also an option that increased the number of magical items in the game and I am kinda sad that I chose it because the game just showers you with magic items left and right, especially ammo. I had so much magical ammo that I wasn't even able to use it all lol. Same goes for potions, of which you tell it to add a ton to the game. PC's with alchemy can also now craft potions so essentially you are walking around with a magical potion shop.

But the good news is like I said if you don't want any of that and just want a more vanilla experience with bug fixes, MUCH decreased loading times, as well as several feats and features that are present in 3E but were absent in the base game then you are free to do so and it's probably recommended. I still think one ought to at least try the extra spells because they are some of the most fun that you can find, with stuff like flying and teleporting adding a whole new dimension to the game.

The only thing that I wish they could have added in this version of the mod would be prestige classes, but maybe that's in the works somewhere down the line idk.

did anyone (Lilura) review Icewinddale 2 Enhanced Edition aka Red Chimera?

a couple pages back I made some comments and posted some pictures.

It's very good IMO, actually its impressive. They've managed to implement things that people used to assume were engine limitations - for example grappling works, trips, AoOs. The way they've implemented AoOs without having the AI just eat shit all the time is really rather elegant.

Theres some dumb arbitrary changes, but overall I think they've taken the half baked product that was IWD2 and turned it into a finished one.

How does Trip work in the game?
I'm guessing not quite as in the oficial rulebook?

I don't remember how it was in the official rule book and I haven't used trip specifically, but I did use grapple and knockdown and they work as intended, that is I didn't notice any bugs in the implementation.

 

[NecroLord]

I ran a Monk in the party as well at some point.
I remember having YUGE Armor Class.

 

[Falksi]

I played through Icewind Dale after buying the enhanced editions of the IE games on a cheap sale, and IWD is the one I never really played through before.

It's thoroughly... meh. Yeah, the graphics and music are beautiful. The writing is decent. But it's just a linear dungeon romp with IE RTwP combat. I mostly enjoyed BG2's mid to high level combat, but that was also nicely interspersed with exploration and side quests. IWD is just the combat, and it would be a million times better if it were proper turn-based. I spent most of my time in IWD thinking "yeah this encounter is pretty good, but boy I wish it were turn based so I could actually properly aim my area effect spells and not have enemies walk out of their area of effect before they're even launched, which is made worse by the fact that there are no indicators for the size of the area the spell would affect". Thinking about that port of IWD to the ToEE engine some dude is working on (looks like vapourware but still) makes me way more excited than thinking about playing IWD as-is again. RTwP just isn't a very good system for D&D based games.

After finishing BG2 again for the 7th time, I've returned to IWD for my first "replay" of it.

I say "replay" because I only tried playing it through once long ago, and didn't finish it. I can't remember where I got to as it was yonks ago, when the game was first released, and I can barely remember anything about it now.

I'm just finishing up the Vale of Shadows, and so far it's definitely been "meh". To add to your summary, what's bugging me the most is the game's predictability.

All the trash mobs so far are easily beatable using the same tactics, and when you step into an area you can pretty much guess what's coming where. It's making it a pretty dull affair so far unfortunately, and low level D&D just doesn't have enough dynamics to stay interesting for long either.

When the game stops and throws you a different challenge, then it feels far better. I've just fought Mylos in the Vale Tomb and, whilst it wasn't anything majorly outstanding, just having to change up tactics helped. This is where BG2 shone, because you could stumble over all kinds of enemies, each requiring different approaches, regardless of where you were in the game.

I'll persist, but it's definitely a game so far for me. I do expect it to improve more as both the character levels and difficulty rises.

 

[Old Hans]

I heard that Icewind dale is a combat focused game

oh did your grandma tell you that? the game has been out for like 20+ years and you're telling me you've never watched a single video about it?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Falksi i You are correct that Icewind Dale is a 3/5 game. Don't let the contrarians confuse you. While the art is excellent, the linear nature diminishes the exploration aspect that's vital to an RPG. It's all very pretty, but there isn't much ground to cover that isn't "on rails" so to speak. The main dungeons are pretty good, but the filler areas in between drag it out.

The plot is thin and really could end at Dragon's Eye without harming it. None of the items in IWD ever really impressed me either, and its spellbooks were generally inferior to BG. I'd say the game is pretty good until Chapter 5 when you get to the glacier. This is where I found myself ready to wrap it up. You will get some decent boss fights in Chapter 6 (the final one), so do stick it out. Like most games, the last few chapters are much shorter. It's a good game, just not as good as others made in the engine.