The Future of RPGs

[Mortmal]

I want more Wizardry 7 remakes/clones.

5040 yen, it better be good although...

 

[prodigydancer]

Imagine something like the Unity Engine being around in the 90s and a young Avellone spending years making his own RPG with that instead of joining Interplay. It wouldn't have been as good as PS:T.

Talk about faulty logic...

The industry is nothing like it was in the 90s and established developers don't hire talented "young guns" anymore. They hire mediocrities who have no ideas. Why? Because it's a cheaper and more sustainable approach. You can't count on finding a genius whenever you need one but you can always count on finding enough mediocrity to fill a development team of any size. All you need is to condition the public to accept flawed and uninspired games as the new norm. This has largely been achieved by now via "nextgen" consoles and endless treadmills like CoD and AssCreed. This is the new business model and "detrimental" indies are the only people who still oppose it.

 

[Infinitron]

Sure they do. It's just that you'll never know it from looking at an AAA game because most individual talent gets drowned out in those productions.

If we're talking mid-sized RPG companies, then there's already the precedent of people like Brother None, Sea, Jorge Salgado. inXile's Jeremy Kopman is a young guy who made one of the best areas in Wasteland 2 and was promoted to lead encounter designer in Torment. In the future he could do even more.

Of course, none of them made their own game from scratch, and I do hope we see some of those people hired in the future as well. I can't think of a better insta-hire resume entry than a self-made RPG that sold 30,000 copies.

 

[prodigydancer]

If we're talking mid-sized RPG companies, then there's already the precedent of people like Brother None, Sea, Jorge Salgado. inXile's Jeremy Kopman is a young guy who made one of the best areas in Wasteland 2 and was promoted to lead encounter designer in Torment. In the future he could do even more.

inXile is far from being immune. WL2 DC was a disappointment because they focused on typical consoletard values and the (allegedly forced) departure of Kevin Saunders is a very disturbing sign too.

 

[Trashos]

You have things backwards. It's because 15 years have passed that you have to accept it. The stage hasn't been set, it's been demolished. It turns out that Chris Avellone and co didn't have a big binder full of ideas and lessons learned, all ready for their triumphant return to making classic RPGs. They weren't thinking about those classics and never expected them to come back.

Infinitron, I think we agree on the main point. It is not a matter of ability; it is a matter of motivation.

I also agree that they need to discover new talent.

 

[Infinitron]

If we're talking mid-sized RPG companies, then there's already the precedent of people like Brother None, Sea, Jorge Salgado. inXile's Jeremy Kopman is a young guy who made one of the best areas in Wasteland 2 and was promoted to lead encounter designer in Torment. In the future he could do even more.

inXile is far from being immune. WL2 DC was a disappointment because they focused on typical consoletard values and the (allegedly forced) departure of Kevin Saunders is a very disturbing sign too.

Immune to what? I'm just giving you examples of mid-sized RPG studios hiring and promoting new talent which you claimed doesn't happen anymore.

Infinitron, I think we agree on the main point. It is not a matter of ability; it is a matter of motivation.

Call it what you want. As far as I can tell, this is how professional creatives operate in every field. Ridley Scott doesn't dream of making the "ultimate science fiction movie that's good at everything" that combines the atmosphere of Blade Runner, the horror of Alien and the space travel of Star Trek, or whatever. And when he does, you get stuff like Prometheus, so be careful what you wish for.

 

[Viata]

I want more Wizardry 7 remakes/clones.

5040 yen, it better be good although...

Already have it. Pirated, can't buy it since I got no international credit card. Still, great game.

 

[prodigydancer]

Immune to what?

To the pitfalls of decline.

I can agree that inXile is still a notable exception. But on its own it's not enough to challenge the rule. Besides, the industry isn't run by "mid-sized" developers, it's run by publishers. In the 90s we had Interplay. What do we have now?

 

[Keldryn]

The industry is nothing like it was in the 90s and established developers don't hire talented "young guns" anymore. They hire mediocrities who have no ideas. Why? Because it's a cheaper and more sustainable approach.

Umm.... no.

The game development industry is incredibly demanding and competitive. There is an infinite supply of teenage boys and young men whose dream job is to make video/computer games. This keeps the salaries low compared to software development jobs outside the gaming industry. Crunch time is legendary and the turnover rate is very high.

So you end up with a steady stream of people coming into the industry and a large percentage of them leaving within a few years. What you're left with are a core group of dedicated and passionate developers who make all the important decisions regarding a game's development. Mediocrity doesn't survive long in the industry. The shitty pay and often shittier working conditions weed out anyone who doesn't have both the passion and the talent.

Trust me, there is no shortage of talented developers with good ideas. Unfortunately many of them burn out and leave the industry before they acquire enough experience to be able to fully realize their talents and ideas.

The apparent lack of good ideas in modern gaming comes down to risk-averse management and rapidly inflating development budgets. THAT is the most significant change since the 90s, not the pool of talent -- if anything, there are more talented developers than ever before.

 

[Snorkack]

I want more Wizardry 7 remakes/clones.

5040 yen, it better be good although...

Already have it. Pirated, can't buy it since I got no international credit card. Still, great game.

what's that?

 

[Viata]

what's that?

 

[Snorkack]

So PSP only and no english version?

 

[Viata]

I played on PC, but yeah no English version.

 

[Volrath]

I'm not sure any established developer wi lots o resources'll turn to this genre anymore or greenlight owt ambitious, still hope they do but I can't seeing em doing owt but following same old path o decline. Might be i'm just a miserable drunken cunt though.

You're not. You're absolutely right. Which is why RPG's are dead jim.

 

[Cosmo]

Jeremy Kopman is a young guy who made one of the best areas in Wasteland 2

I'm just curious there : which one ?

 

[Excidium II]

RPGs have no future. Forever stuck in the past because the old developers prefer to make the exact same game they made 20 years ago and all the younger ones can do is copy the old shit but with cooldowns.

If only that were true! Please show me those WoX, Wizardry 7, Goldbox, Ultima... remakes you must be referring to. Or which games from 20 years ago are you talking about?

Open your eyes maybe. MMX was p. much a shittier 3-5 MM. Then there is S&S which is like MM2.

Madman is Ultima more or less

Wizardry clones are overflowing from the japs

Then there is all the DM/EoB clones after Grimcock. And BT4.

This all ignoring failed kikestarters like deathfire, that brenda thing and others...also ignoring games that arent total ripoffs but also morbidly derivative like Lords of Xulima or WL2.

I guess nobody is doing geldboxes though. Except for that dorateen project

 

[Mustawd]

RPGs have no future. Forever stuck in the past because the old developers prefer to make the exact same game they made 20 years ago and all the younger ones can do is copy the old shit but with cooldowns.

If only that were true! Please show me those WoX, Wizardry 7, Goldbox, Ultima... remakes you must be referring to. Or which games from 20 years ago are you talking about?

Open your eyes maybe. MMX was p. much a shittier 3-5 MM. Then there is S&S which is like MM2.

Madman is Ultima more or less

Wizardry clones are overflowing from the japs

Then there is all the DM/EoB clones after Grimcock. And BT4.

This all ignoring failed kikestarters like deathfire, that brenda thing and others...also ignoring games that arent total ripoffs but also morbidly derivative like Lords of Xulima.

I guess nobody is doing geldboxes though

There's also SS3 coming from the new LGS.

 

[Excidium II]

And UA ofc. Forgot about that one.

 

[Mortmal]

So PSP only and no english version?

No, its on pc its one of the generation XTH titles, theres 4 of them for sale on DLsite. No english version , as far as i know, but maybe some more knowledgeable codexer about Japanese wizardry clones .

 

[Vikter]

From an industry standpoint, I think being able to have exponentially bigger games is good for games as products, instead of games as art. People who play Call of Duty or Football Manager, for example, aren't autists who need to replay everything and see every aspect of the game, or even bother if one thing or another was not well designed or written.

And at the same time, if the industry gets bigger, the smaller developers can have access to tools that allow them to make games in whatever scope they want to (Obsidian with Unity and Pillars of Eternity, for example). If the tools to develop games get easier and more popular, we'll be able to see more stuff focused on the setting and less on the technical side. This is, for me, a good thing for RPGs, because I would rather have a rehash that basically adds a few new items and dungeons with a great different story than seeing a refreshing new RPG with hundreds of great new systems with a shitty story (not that I wouldn't prefer having both).

So I think the future of RPGs will come with small developers focusing on making good stories and role playing aspects while the AAA industry keeps pushing the industry forward in terms of technology, or something like that.

 

[Viata]

So PSP only and no english version?

No, its on pc its one of the generation XTH titles, theres 4 of them for sale on DLsite. No english version , as far as i know, but maybe some more knowledgeable codexer about Japanese wizardry clones .

It's not Xth titles, it just takes inspiration from Wizardry Xth like Generation Xth. It was released for PSP and 360 too.

 

[Infinitron]

Jeremy Kopman is a young guy who made one of the best areas in Wasteland 2

I'm just curious there : which one ?

Titan Canyon.

 

[Snorkack]

the old developers prefer to make the exact same game they made 20 years ago

Open your eyes maybe. MMX was p. much a shittier 3-5 MM. Then there is S&S which is like MM2.
Madman is Ultima more or less
Wizardry clones are overflowing from the japs
Then there is all the DM/EoB clones after Grimcock. And BT4.

2 different things, mang.
However, what do you mean with S&S? I'd kill for a proper MM2-like.

 

[Excidium II]

2 different things, mang.

They try but they suck, and faded rockstar projects tend to die on crowdfunding because of how out of touch they are, I gave ye two examples.

 

[Trashos]

Call it what you want. As far as I can tell, this is how professional creatives operate in every field. Ridley Scott doesn't dream of making the "ultimate science fiction movie that's good at everything" that combines the atmosphere of Blade Runner, the horror of Alien and the space travel of Star Trek, or whatever. And when he does, you get stuff like Prometheus, so be careful what you wish for.

Am I really asking for that much? I believe I am asking for movies with good setting, direction, acting and story all in one. The basics. I am claiming that in rpgs we are not given even the basics.

The early Fallouts and BG2 are examples of games that got most of everything right. And then what happened? It suddenly became "you are asking for too much"?