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The Future of RPGs

DosBuster

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The Real Fanboy
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Codex USB, 2014
(inspired by a discussion on Shoutbox)

We live in an era where games are only going to get bigger, the technology is constantly evolving and the amounts invested are just getting higher by the day.

So, how can RPGs evolve from this point? What needs to be done better and what needs to be focused on. What needs to be forgotten?
 

Snorkack

Arcane
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Lower Bavaria
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Stop focussing on high-gloss presentation and huge yet empty maps and start concentrating on core gameplay mechanics again!
 

CrustyBot

Arcane
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Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
814
Codex 2012
Nothing needs to be forgotten. Much of the bloat in AAA gaming is caused by marketing budgets and marketing alone. Once you step outside of the AAA arena, you realise that the cost and barriers to entry for the RPG genre are remarkably low with the proliferation of "free" Engines and even all-in-one kits like RPGMaker.

As for where I think it should go, I think it needs to better incorporate elements of the Strategy genre. Specifically the idea of dynamic play/mechanics dictated through AI. Open World RPGs in particular need dynamic elements to make the gameworld feel more alive, and hopefully deliver choice and consequence on a mechanical level to support pre-written story content. We mostly see this through mechanics like random encounters. But imagine if many of the sandbox mechanics of a Mount & Blade like supply and demand trading systems, Roaming Bands, Military Campaigns/Hierarchies, Town Ownership (and all that entails), Siege Scenarios and the like were seamlessly rolled into more narrative oriented games when appropriate i.e factional warfare plots. There are games like Jagged Alliance 2 which already attempt things like this on a rudimentary level with excellent outcomes. The idea needs to be expanded and improved upon IMO.

As for RPGs in AAA, abandon the idea that good core gameplay and mechanics will ever feature prominently in RPGs there. With the march towards casualisation (largest audience/lowest common denominator) and hyperrealism, cinematic presentation and easy-to-master systems is what mainstream audiences have been conditioned to expect. The problem is that the former is remarkably cost inefficient, and the latter often (though not always) leads to a shallow game.
 

DeN DarK

Educated
Joined
Dec 23, 2015
Messages
54
Location
Whitestone One, First Throne, Forty Forties
I don't share grim view on the gaming and RPG-games.
Isometric RPGs return to the market in last years and it is very cool. Wasteland 2, Divinity: OS, Pillars, Age of Decadance, Underrail. Torment in next year and e.t.c. For very long time I feared games like Fallout, Baldurs gate and Arcanum will stand alone as old classic. Now they are inspiration for new games.

Yes, AAA RPGs now are more action games with RPG elements. Bethesdas Fallout and Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age-Inquisition and e.t.c made me very sceptical about AAA RPGs. But after Withcer 3 I see hope in that field too. Yes it will be very audience-oriented games, but still they can be very interesting. If Cyberpunk will be as good as Withcer it will be fantastic achievement. Of course it will be whole another gameplay than in classic RPGs but still it can be interesting.

Real action games with first person view + RPG elements are still here too. Sad that VTM: Bloodlines still unrivaled, but at least Deus Ex is still here. Perosnally I think DE:Human Revolution was very good and Mankind Divided will be too.

Dark Souls is awesome too and I hope to see more games like it in the future.

With all new players gaming market is very huge. And it will grow. Classic RPGs and huge AAA action-RPGs share audience well.

One thing I want to be forgotten in RPGs. - Answer wheel - it is EVIL. Bioware must burn in hell for this "invention".
One thing I hope will be done better in the future RPGs - it is story, choice and consiquences, dialogues. In AAA they became very poor. Witcher 3 do it better - but still not enough.
 

pippin

Guest
Ironically, when rpgs wanted to be action games, action games started to include rpg elements. These days only shooters have skill trees, abilities, unlockables, etc. You could argue that loadouts in multiplayer oriented shooters offer a more significative character building experience than many modern rpgs.
The cinematic bullshit has always been a problem for gaming. Gaming companies always wanted to make "cinematic" games, with good aesthetics, good sound and etc. You can't blame them for trying to make something visually appealing, but you can blame them for not designing proper game systems.
 

kwanzabot

Cipher
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
597
Was talking to someone irl about this the other day, same thing has happened to movies imo, I don't hate graphics but I feel like alot of games today either try to focus on visceral game play too much or try to be too cinematic and the actual gameplay suffers for a variety of reasons more often then not. Movies on the other hand focus too much on special effects and not enough on plot nowadays.

For me probably 95% of movies since 2000 and 95% of games since 2002 or so have been complete shit, but thats just my opinion :o
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,184
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
The Emergence

Hardware evolve to the point 3D MMORPG is a common thing.
Software: modders evolve to the point where we can play them mods on 3D like normal.

We will play mod then like we read an amateur's story now~
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
As for RPGs in AAA, abandon the idea that good core gameplay and mechanics will ever feature prominently in RPGs there. With the march towards casualisation (largest audience/lowest common denominator) and hyperrealism, cinematic presentation and easy-to-master systems is what mainstream audiences have been conditioned to expect. The problem is that the former is remarkably cost inefficient, and the latter often (though not always) leads to a shallow game.

Care to explain the "cost inefficient" part?

I understand the need of the AAA industry to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but I don't get why they can't have a design that is also interesting to hardcore gamers (on the higher difficulty levels). Till now, I thought they just didn't care about creating something good. But if what you say about cost inefficiency is true, maybe there is something I am missing. So I want to understand this.

As for the codex crowd, I would like to see them push forward in two directions:

a) Support creators that build good games. I see that you guys are already doing this, so more of that, please. Where is my Arcanum 2? I want my Arcanum 2! (Hey, maybe we should create it ourselves)

b) Push the AAA industry to include staff that we want. Now, we need to be creative in order to achieve this. There is no much point in asking for staff that make no business sense for them. We need to somehow find a compromise that works for both sides. This would be cool, because AAA games could then lead some crowd towards games that are actually good.
 

pippin

Guest
Wasn't the aesthetic part the most expensive one in game development?
 

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
Push the AAA industry to include staff that we want.

247357275_921b20a8e5.jpg
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Prodigydancer, very creative reaction to my mistake! Cheers. (can't edit my posts yet)
 

StrongBelwas

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Aug 1, 2015
Messages
518
This about all RPGs, just AAA RPGs, or just Codex-approved ones?

AAA RPGs, like the rest of the big genres, are almost certainly going to reach some kind of point where they simply can't afford the team increase the better tech requires. The human element will give out far before the limits of the hardware. Team sizes have been increasing exponentially from generation to generation as tech becomes more demanding, and there is no sign it is going to get better*. One or two 1% of the 1% games like the Assassins Creeds/CoDs of the future might be able to afford to push it, but their reliance on consoles to survive means they won't push it that far. Some people are going to start looking into ways to make the same stuff cheaper to use, and if that works more niche genres might benefit from the trickle-down. Non-mainstream RPGs are not a growth market, we already know the highest they can get, so anything that lets companies make more out of their shoestring budgets will be good.

Larger companies will probably start looking into ways to recycle more of the expensive assets they have created, so maybe we see more New Vegas-type stuff happen across the entire industry; Take the assets for your big AAA game you have already made, give them to someone who can try something without as much risk involved. Think I read something about Ubisoft using the city from the last AC game to build a VR game, so maybe this is already starting.

If PC continues its current growth, some minor elements might support our niche corner of things, but if there is huge growth, most of it will probably be console expatriates using the $300/400 Steam Machines in their living room with a gamepad, so the problems we've had will still persist in some manner. Maaaaaaaaybe we see a move to turn-based even moreso as it is easier for gamepads to use.

*Would not shock me if mid-size developers like Obsidian simply get priced out of the AAA industry and go pure indie. I suspect most big independent studios will either get bought by a publisher or have some kind of leverage (i.e Respawn Interactive or Bungie, which can guarantee huge amounts of money for their games.) Think Feargus already said something like that back at one of those Russian conferences.

As for what they actually need to do? I dunno, I'm not a developer. AAA RPGs gonna AAA RPG, the usual trends with them will probably get even worse as the budgets increase, but I would be content with just a stable ecosystem for :incline: devs to exist and experiment with many different concepts without being reliant on crowdfunding for anything more than a microbudget. Stuff like Fig will probably help certain bigger studios reach higher production values without compromising the integrity of the game.
It would be neat to see the usual requests; More C&C, more stuff going on in the world the player isn't directly responsible for, a more dynamic approach to skills than just "You got it or you don't, if you got it you win, if you don't you fail", and so on and so forth. More focus on what makes gaming a different medium from other stuff like film/books, like the actual systems.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,738
Pathfinder: Wrath
Graphics and voice acting are the most expensive things in video game development as far as I know. Aesthetics aren't graphics. The aesthetic of something is the style (this includes stylistic coherence), presentation, "atmosphere" if you will. You can think of it as the creativity in an art form, although it's not exactly right. Aesthetic is everything within a work that isn't the technical side and which can be picked up by the senses alone (that excludes a deep meaning, if there is any).

Anyway, future of RPGs... I really don't know. It depends on what we want the genre to achieve, I guess. We have examples of systems over presentation in AoD and Underrail and I'd say that should be the way to go. At one point the graphics are just going to catch up because of the eventual ease of their creation. I'd also say that the systems are the most important thing in an RPG. It's not only that though, because all the elements of a work contribute to the whole - writing, aesthetics, kinesthetics etc. Sooooo, focus more on systems and the creative part of games? "Modern" (i.e. AAA) graphics and voice acting can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
4,642
Photorealism.

Do we need it? No.

How far out are we? 10-20 years.

We are still living in the pre-photorealism era, like black & white movies were before they were colorized.

In the last 10 years though, I would say that computer graphics have hit the wall that is the "law of diminishing returns."

Polygon counts are really the only aspect that have improved.

Today's textures were available as mods as far back as Gamebryo.

The greatest jump I've witnessed came with Doom 3 and Half-Life 2.

If current virtual reality technology becomes widely adopted, it will reset the visual limits of gaming once again.
 

DosBuster

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God's Dumpster
Codex USB, 2014
There's a whole lot of graphics tech only just going into engines now that is really impressive, real-time Global Illumination is an example of this.
 

Neanderthal

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Jul 7, 2015
Messages
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Granbretan
What I want in future:

1. Gameplay other than combat and conversation, never thought i'd have to ask for this but nowadays these are usually the only two options, and one usually leads to t'other.
2. Environmental interactivity, like we had in games twenty plus years ago, and we have almost fuck all of now.
3. Basic features, Poe implements a shitload o weapons wi a $4m budget, DA:I restricts player in what he uses, D:OS can't manage the day/night cycle that shitloads of games have had for decades, NPC schedules that we haven't seen in hardly any games.
4. Coherent and internally consistent gameworld, no shortcuts, no illogical features handwaved away, everything should strive to make sense, no limitless invisible backpacks or stats that don't make sense.
5. Fantastic elements, dragons and other fantasy creatures, magic and all the stuff that serves to reinforce the mundanity of the ordinary world should be treated like it is special not as just another part of the world. Unless it's become commonplace and relatable, and even then it should be dangerous and tricky in confinement.
6. Get away from the fucking stupid idea that players should always approach any fight in optimum condition, get some severe side effects and consequences going, if you've trawled through Moria you should be a fucking wreck, physically, mentally and spiritually when you come out other side, and some o these wounds shouldn't go away.
7. Gameplay systems that scale, except enemy level of course, for instance inventory: At 1st level you can fill your arms wi stuff if your packs full, but risk being attacked while encumbered and unable to grab common items. At mid levels you can hire mules and henchmen to carry for you or use any of a number of spells, though there are dangers as usual. Then at later levels where you have spells that trivialise this aspect, you can have bags of holding, dimensional caches and such that finally get rid of this element almost entirely, but some risk should remain.
8. Use something else other than fucking healing potions, show some fucking imagination you dimwitted cunts and dare to step away from the tropes just a little bit.
9. See features as an opportunity to add roleplaying elements, not just as busywork to fill up your game, you've got a food and drink system then making poisoning and needing to acquire food a feature, stop at wells and chat wi locals, beg a cup of water from a busy housewife and hear the local gossip, clutch your stomach in agony as you realise that the sneering innkeeper has more than a passing dislike for you. There should be a roleplaying opportunity in almost anything, don't just stick to combat and conversation in a dull and predictable, linear progression.
10. Smart antagonists, they should react and act, you choose to go to one location then they should have already been there, instead gone to the other location you were considering or have skipped all this and stolen a march on you.
11. You have to prove yourself as a party leader, you're not just accepted as such but have to seize, bully, bribe or persuade your way into power, and it takes fucking time. Or even accept another as party leader and work as the power behind the throne, influencing rather than commanding.
12. Smart companions, not just the usual unmotivated, incompetent slaves who follow you around wi'out complaint or pay but self interested mercenaries who want money and more in exchange for putting their fucking lives on the line, and who aren't gonna settle for whatever scrap you choose to chuck them from the pile of loot that they fought equally to acquire.
13. Landscapes should reflect the unusual influences they've been subjected to, lets see some fucking weird Roger Dean like settings, something other than the usual stuff we see in western fantasy. And the normal stuff we do have, give it a twist and exaggerate it a bit more.
14. Failure states, you've fannied around dragging shit from a dungeon to the local town for days at a time, not even attempting to hide your presence and guess what? The big bad has fucked off! You've lost out on the treasure or chance to off an enemy because of your own stupidity and laziness, and they might eventually pop up again, being used by others or become far more deadly but for the moment you've lost.
15. Magic systems that are fun, useful and have some inherent dangers, kinda like wild magic but a bit more reliable. Gives us tools and makes you think of possibilities just from reading the spell lists, rather than a dry recitation of damage, range and similar shit that makes the magical so mundane.
16. Running away should be a viable and sensible option in almost all scenarios, and standing your ground dangerous as fuck against a smart enemy.

Fuck me I do go on.
 
Last edited:

Zarniwoop

Gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,253
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
What I want in future:

1. Gameplay other than combat and conversation, never thought i'd have to ask for this but nowadays these are usually the only two options, and one usually leads to t'other.
2. Environmental interactivity, like we had in games twenty plus years ago, and we have almost fuck all of now.
3. Basic features, Poe implements a shitload o weapons wi a $4m budget, DA:I restricts player in what he uses, D:OS can't manage the day/night cycle that shitloads of games have had for decades, NPC schedules that we haven't seen in hardly any games.
4. Coherent and internally consistent gameworld, no shortcuts, no illogical features handwaved away, everything should strive to make sense, no limitless invisible backpacks or stats that don't make sense.
5. Fantastic elements, dragons and other fantasy creatures, magic and all the stuff that serves to reinforce the mundanity of the ordinary world should be treated like it is special not as just another part of the world. Unless it's become commonplace and relatable, and even then it should be dangerous and tricky in confinement.
6. Get away from the fucking stupid idea that players should always approach any fight in optimum condition, get some severe side effects and consequences going, if you've trawled through Moria you should be a fucking wreck, physically, mentally and spiritually when you come out other side, and some o these wounds shouldn't go away.
7. Gameplay systems that scale, except enemy level of course, for instance inventory: At 1st level you can fill your arms wi stuff if your packs full, but risk being attacked while encumbered and unable to grab common items. At mid levels you can hire mules and henchmen to carry for you or use any of a number of spells, though there are dangers as usual. Then at later levels where you have spells that trivialise this aspect, you can have bags of holding, dimensional caches and such that finally get rid of this element almost entirely, but some risk should remain.
8. Use something else other than fucking healing potions, show some fucking imagination you dimwitted cunts and dare to step away from the tropes just a little bit.
9. See features as an opportunity to add roleplaying elements, not just as busywork to fill up your game, you've got a food and drink system then making poisoning and needing to acquire food a feature, stop at wells and chat wi locals, beg a cup of water from a busy housewife and hear the local gossip, clutch your stomach in agony as you realise that the sneering innkeeper has more than a passing dislike for you. There should be a roleplaying opportunity in almost anything, don't just stick to combat and conversation in a dull and predictable, linear progression.
10. Smart antagonists, they should react and act, you choose to go to one location then they should have already been there, instead gone to the other location you were considering or have skipped all this and stolen a march on you.
11. You have to prove yourself as a party leader, you're not just accepted as such but have to seize, bully, bribe or persuade your way into power, and it takes fucking time. Or even accept another as party leader and work as the power behind the throne, influencing rather than commanding.
12. Smart companions, not just the usual unmotivated, incompetent slaves who follow you around wi'out complaint or pay but self interested mercenaries who want money and more in exchange for putting their fucking lives on the line, and who aren't gonna settle for whatever scrap you choose to chuck them from the pile of loot that they fought equally to acquire.
13. Landscapes should reflect the unusual influences they've been subjected to, lets see some fucking weird Roger Dean like settings, something other than the usual stuff we see in western fantasy. And the normal stuff we do have, give it a twist and exaggerate it a bit more.
14. Failure states, you've fannied around dragging shit from a dungeon to the local town for days at a time, not even attempting to hide your presence and guess what? The big bad has fucked off! You've lost out on the treasure or chance to off an enemy because of your own stupidity and laziness, and they might eventually pop up again, being used by others or become far more deadly but for the moment you've lost.
15. Magic systems that are fun, useful and have some inherent dangers, kinda like wild magic but a bit more reliable. Gives us tools and makes you think of possibilities just from reading the spell lists, rather than a dry recitation of damage, range and similar shit that makes the magical so mundane.
16. Running away should be a viable and sensible option in almost all scenarios, and standing your ground dangerous as fuck against a smart enemy.

Fuck me I do go on.

Sounds exactly like D:OS. Literally all those things are in there. Except day/night cycles. But who gives a fuck about that? And maybe not being party leader. Which is totally retarded unless the party leader is another human player. Guess which is the only RPG in recent times to allow that?
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
What I want in future:

[...]

Fuck me I do go on.
These are some great ideas, even if they could only adopt two or three it might even be a game changer.

Sounds exactly like D:OS. Literally all those things are in there. Except day/night cycles. But who gives a fuck about that? And maybe not being party leader. Which is totally retarded unless the party leader is another human player. Guess which is the only RPG in recent times to allow that?
I'm guessing you haven't played D:OS yet.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,505
I will care for the future of RPGs when a better RPG than A Dance with Rogues is made.
There is some already, have a look there http://www.dlsite.com/ , so yes it requires to find either fan made translations, a strong will and motivation to learn or even both.... But i bet you will accept the challenge like a true codexer.Too many titles to test and play ina lifetime i think there.
 

Zarniwoop

Gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,253
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
These are some great ideas, even if they could only adopt two or three it might even be a game changer.

I'm guessing you haven't played D:OS yet.
Of course I have, I just said all those things are in it.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
D:OS doesn't have any of these:

4. Coherent and internally consistent gameworld, no shortcuts, no illogical features handwaved away, everything should strive to make sense, no limitless invisible backpacks or stats that don't make sense.
5. Fantastic elements, dragons and other fantasy creatures, magic and all the stuff that serves to reinforce the mundanity of the ordinary world should be treated like it is special not as just another part of the world. Unless it's become commonplace and relatable, and even then it should be dangerous and tricky in confinement.
6. Get away from the fucking stupid idea that players should always approach any fight in optimum condition, get some severe side effects and consequences going, if you've trawled through Moria you should be a fucking wreck, physically, mentally and spiritually when you come out other side, and some o these wounds shouldn't go away.
7. Gameplay systems that scale, except enemy level of course, for instance inventory: At 1st level you can fill your arms wi stuff if your packs full, but risk being attacked while encumbered and unable to grab common items. At mid levels you can hire mules and henchmen to carry for you or use any of a number of spells, though there are dangers as usual. Then at later levels where you have spells that trivialise this aspect, you can have bags of holding, dimensional caches and such that finally get rid of this element almost entirely, but some risk should remain.
8. Use something else other than fucking healing potions, show some fucking imagination you dimwitted cunts and dare to step away from the tropes just a little bit.
10. Smart antagonists, they should react and act, you choose to go to one location then they should have already been there, instead gone to the other location you were considering or have skipped all this and stolen a march on you.
11. You have to prove yourself as a party leader, you're not just accepted as such but have to seize, bully, bribe or persuade your way into power, and it takes fucking time. Or even accept another as party leader and work as the power behind the throne, influencing rather than commanding.
12. Smart companions, not just the usual unmotivated, incompetent slaves who follow you around wi'out complaint or pay but self interested mercenaries who want money and more in exchange for putting their fucking lives on the line, and who aren't gonna settle for whatever scrap you choose to chuck them from the pile of loot that they fought equally to acquire.
14. Failure states, you've fannied around dragging shit from a dungeon to the local town for days at a time, not even attempting to hide your presence and guess what? The big bad has fucked off! You've lost out on the treasure or chance to off an enemy because of your own stupidity and laziness, and they might eventually pop up again, being used by others or become far more deadly but for the moment you've lost.
15. Magic systems that are fun, useful and have some inherent dangers, kinda like wild magic but a bit more reliable. Gives us tools and makes you think of possibilities just from reading the spell lists, rather than a dry recitation of damage, range and similar shit that makes the magical so mundane.
16. Running away should be a viable and sensible option in almost all scenarios, and standing your ground dangerous as fuck against a smart enemy.

Though to give Larian credit, they did try, and in striving Larian did make a fun game out of it.
 

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