Baldur's Gate The Ethics of Baldur's Gate 2 Romances

[Shaewaroz]

Saying that one is emotionally or mentally unable to start a new relationship after a partner's death is just a myth enforced by societal norms. And I say this as a happily married man.

 

[laclongquan]

Godblood! Distract widow right out of mourning period!

 

[Ibbz]

Mod scenes! It's full of people and weirdoes.

 

[Yosharian]

Mod scenes! It's full of people and weirdoes.

Fantastic stuff.

 

[Lacrymas]

Saying that one is emotionally or mentally unable to start a new relationship after a partner's death is just a myth enforced by societal norms. And I say this as a happily married man.

It's not a myth enforced by societal norms, it's a personal ability and choice, informed by the circumstances. Society can't force you to feel sad about a personal tragedy. And even if it could, something being a social construct doesn't mean it isn't real. Money is a social construct, but that doesn't mean it has no value or no reality in the world we live in.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Saying that one is emotionally or mentally unable to start a new relationship after a partner's death is just a myth enforced by societal norms. And I say this as a happily married man.

It's not a myth enforced by societal norms, it's a personal ability and choice, informed by the circumstances. Society can't force you to feel sad about a personal tragedy. And even if it could, something being a social construct doesn't mean it isn't real. Money is a social construct, but that doesn't mean it has no value or no reality in the world we live in.

Myth was perhaps not a good descriptive word, I agree. Society encourages desired behavior and offers clear ideals for behavioral responses during events like the death of a loved one, like extended mourning period. And sure, this encouraged behavior becomes a learned response for many people that want to fit into such socially accepted stereotype. However it's problematic to claim that it's "unrealistic" that someone might not feel compelled to adopt such stereotypical mode of behavior, like in the case of Jaheira being able to get over Khalid's death in, say, about a month. Jaheira is clearly a character that doesn't much care about societal norms.

I have to disagree about society not being able to force someone to feel sadness, anger or other emotions. Perhaps "force" is too strong a word, however "encourage" and even "manipulate" are perfectly adequate words of describing the process of Socialization. Large scientific fields of study like Sociology and Cultural Anthropology are basically dedicated to studying various ways through which people's behavior is transformed through societal norms, initiation rites etc. There's also the field of Public Relations, that was built on the realization that people are basically herd animals who are driven by their spinal cords rather than rational reasoning and that people's emotional responses are easy to predict and manipulate.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think anyone claimed it's unrealistic, I said it wasn't addressed at all. Maybe she really does not care, that would've been an interesting thing to explore, but given the society we live in, and yes, in which it is expected for someone to feel sad after a loved one's death, it isn't unrealistic to ask the question why. Otherwise, yeah, of course society can influence how you feel about something. For example, a father might not be sad when his son dies because his son was gay. Quite the contrary, he might be very happy. But, like I said, "the West" isn't a society in which we are encouraged to be happy or neutral when our spouses die. Тhe inverse can also be true, all the pressure of society might not be enough for us to feel sad about that, that's why I said it's a personal ability/choice/worldview/circumstance. Either way, the implications with Jaheira are strange, both because she's your step-aunt and because she just lost her husband. They are strange *because* they aren't addressed.

 

[wyes gull]

I always thought Bioware games' writing was like this unholy alliance between Josh Whedon and Stephanie Meyer but holy shit, this thread looks like it belongs on a vampire forum with a title along the lines of "Should Bella go for whatisface with the fangs or whatsisface with bigger fangs?".

 

[Mastermind]

Read my bolded note.


Oh I am not arguing about the reasons for their quirks. I am talking about their relative normalcy compared to BG2 character

And dont get me started on that bugger, Anomen.

I used to play male MC in order to get 3 romance options. So I didnt know about this sucker.

But this time around I play female MC. And this specimen of male candidacy make me suspect: the romance team writers, especially the one decide this fucker, is definitely female(s).

Only female would present this idiot to a female MC.

Male writers would love female MC too much to send this in.

It's not that he's chauvinist. No, that is the least of our problem.

He's selfcenter, whiny brat of an aristocratic noble.

It's not that he constantly harp on his abused part. It's forgivable if it's only that.

No, it's that he's pathetic excuse of a man in dealing with other people and others' problems.

I suspect only females (or his mother) would love such a jerk. If there's no personal quest (and the romance) He would get the chop 1st chance we get.

Why would the writers present a male option actual women would like, they should have made the female char romance option a nerd who plays rpgs all day.

 

[turkishronin]

y'all should play Beamdog's BG2 for Dorn's romance

 

[Lacrymas]

Viconia > Dorn > everyone else. Ranked by hotness. Get at me.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

for some reason the BG mod community has a lot of females(or men pretending to be such,) not really sure why

 

[rusty_shackleford]

khalid was and is my favorite BG1 companion so I'm still pretty butthurt that he dies
jaheira basically running at you and taking her panties off just adds salt to the wound

 

[Shaewaroz]

I don't think anyone claimed it's unrealistic, I said it wasn't addressed at all. - - Either way, the implications with Jaheira are strange, both because she's your step-aunt and because she just lost her husband. They are strange *because* they aren't addressed.

You mean she didn't clearly express mourning before jumping to a new relationship? You might want to refresh your memory.



Here are some time stamps to pay special attention to:

3:00 - 3:08 Khalid wouldn't have wanted Jaheira to dwell with the past (cease pointless mourning and move on).
3:14 - 3:45 Jaheira's dream where she feels like Khalid wants her to become closer with the protagonist.
6:07 - 6:45 Jaheira is seeking balance. She is clearly conflicted with her feelings toward the protagonist, as well as her duties as a Druid and a Harper.
6:46 - 7:28 This is an important one. Jaheira is troubled by the thought that she might forget Khalid and her desire to avenge his death might slowly fade.
7:29 - 7:47 Jaheira wishes she could forget the pain Khalid's death has left her with. It seems to be tearing her apart.
11:54 During the Harper Hold visit Galvarey taunts Jaheira of her affectionate relationship with the protagonist, even asking what Khalid might think about it. Jaheira's new relationship is being noticed and commented on by an NPC.
25:40 - 26:33 Jaheira is desperate to find out whether the Bhaal curse is eventually going to drive the protagonist insane. She is very conflicted about whether she should just leave your company altogether.
28:57 - 29:58 Jaheira is remembering Khalid's death and everything she has had to go through because she has chosen to stay by your side. This is when the protagonist gets to confess his love for Jaheira for the first time.
40:30 The Gorion impostor tries to use Khalid's appearance and voice to accuse Jaheira of leading him to his death on purpose because she never loved him and wanted to be with the protagonist instead. Brilliant psychological torture.
etc etc etc...

If I counted correctly, it's not until 39th romantic banter with Jaheira when you confess your love to each other and you have to wait until 47th banter to bang her. This doesn't include all the other quest-related banters where she's involved. It usually takes around 1 to 3 in-game days between banters, so her mourning period definitely lasted longer than 1 month and perhaps even 3 - 4 months.

Do you now agree that she did not just randomly jump on the protagonist's cock immediately when the first opportunity arose?

I actually have no idea what you're talking about with Jaheira being the protagonist's aunt. Since she very clearly is not. That's like saying The Joker is Batman's uncle.

 

[Neanderthal]

FUCKING ELVES!

Well what else would you do with them

Genocide, extermination, extinction, these are a few of my favourite things.

 

[Mastermind]

If you:

Romance Aerie -> you are a beta male white knight or Trad Chad
Romance Jaheira -> you are a piece of shit and possibly a psychopath
Romance Viconia -> you are an omega/gamma male cuck or Playboy Chad
Romance Aomen -> you are a faggot

I hope this clarifies every possible position on BG2 romances. If you have any more questions please post them below.

 

[Mastermind]

FUCKING ELVES!

Well what else would you do with them

Genocide, extermination, extinction, these are a few of my favourite things.

In Warlords Battlecry (the ultimate authority on fantasy races) p much all the elves rape dwarves like there's no tomorrow, and that's despite generally high piercing/magic resistance among dwarves.

So your inferiority complex towards those of us who are smarter than you, faster than you, better looking than you, happier and more cultured than you, and all around superior to you in every way that counts is completely understandable.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

every possible position o

what about neera tho

 

[Sharpedge]

At least even Bioware did not have the ability to absolutely murder writing romance the way FROM software does in Dragon's Dogma... Take solace in the fact that the romance writing in BG 2 was bad, but it wasn't that bad.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

At least even Bioware did not have the ability to absolutely murder writing romance the way FROM software does in Dragon's Dogma... Take solace in the fact that the romance writing in BG 2 was bad, but it wasn't that bad.

jrpgs don't even have stories

 

[Sharpedge]

At least even Bioware did not have the ability to absolutely murder writing romance the way FROM software does in Dragon's Dogma... Take solace in the fact that the romance writing in BG 2 was bad, but it wasn't that bad.

jrpgs don't even have stories

That might be true, but their attempt at writing 1 is so comically bad that it is impressive.

 

[Delterius]

The best mod for BG2 is without a doubt Saerileth Romance.

 

[Shaewaroz]

I wish to issue a DIRECT CHALLENGE to all of you who think BG2 romances are lame, grinchworthy, poorly-written or illogical.

Post a screen shot or a video clip that illustrates why BG2 romances are terrible. HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters. I will promise to familiarize myself with the romances of the game your mentioned and we can analyze them together with all the collective knowledge of literary theory and storytelling which I'm sure all of us have in abundance. I'm willing to be proven wrong if it turns out I'm blinded by nostalgia.

 

[Delterius]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

 

[Shaewaroz]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

OK and can you provide an example why BG 2 romance are terrible?