Baldur's Gate The Ethics of Baldur's Gate 2 Romances

[laclongquan]

Besides romances and LGBT, all the stuff you BG fans love to talk about, the real incline would be to improve the formula.

For instance, if they had the balls to go turn-based, wipe romances out of the game and focus on the gameplay while making a bullet-proof engine which doesn't require interminable loading screens (like the recent "you know them" games).

I'm with you on wiping romances out of the games entirely (go play the fucking Sims if you want romance in a video game), but screw going turn-based. There are more than enough turn-based games out there already. I happen to like both styles.

I am for wiping out romances, but that is because game writers these days cant write romances for shit!

Planescape Torment style is impossible to replicate.
Baldur's Gate 2, while being the standard and the pioneer that set the game romance trend, is not that good in term of logic. Too much elf obsession for once.

 

[Riddler]

Besides romances and LGBT, all the stuff you BG fans love to talk about, the real incline would be to improve the formula.

For instance, if they had the balls to go turn-based, wipe romances out of the game and focus on the gameplay while making a bullet-proof engine which doesn't require interminable loading screens (like the recent "you know them" games).

I'm with you on wiping romances out of the games entirely (go play the fucking Sims if you want romance in a video game), but screw going turn-based. There are more than enough turn-based games out there already. I happen to like both styles.

I am for wiping out romances, but that is because game writers these days cant write romances for shit!

Planescape Torment style is impossible to replicate.
Baldur's Gate 2, while being the standard and the pioneer that set the game romance trend, is not that good in term of logic. Too much elf obsession for once.

Why would anyone go for that human pussy when there is the elf variety readily available?

Better looking and doesn't age? This is a no-brainer.

 

[laclongquan]

Point 1: Jaheira, while being a sexy widow is very nice, has her husband dead very recently. Like, not even cold corpsicle yet~
Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!
Point 3: Viconia, while legally acceptable by all means, has several ex-concubines in the past. They were all dead during her fall and escape from Drow society, so she's single now. But Viconia is a cougar of first order. Very experienced. Do you want to be the young piece of meat that she would gobble up?

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.
(To contrast, look at PST: a teenage girl who is a bit of fathercon, a suppressed nun who rule over a brothel and doesnt seem to play around at all, and a dead girl who died for love)

 

[Cael]

Point 1: Jaheira, while being a sexy widow is very nice, has her husband dead very recently. Like, not even cold corpsicle yet~
Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!
Point 3: Viconia, while legally acceptable by all means, has several ex-concubines in the past. They were all dead during her fall and escape from Drow society, so she's single now. But Viconia is a cougar of first order. Very experienced. Do you want to be the young piece of meat that she would gobble up?

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.
(To contrast, look at PST: a teenage girl who is a bit of fathercon, a suppressed nun who rule over a brothel and doesnt seem to play around at all, and a dead girl who died for love)

You forgot the last option with BG2: The male chauvinist dick.

Also, the nun in Torment doesn't play around because she completely rejects that form of fun, and with an understandable reason.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc(mm, maybe they weren't forgotten realms elves now that I think about it)

 

[Cael]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc

Races of the Wild said that elves physically and mentally mature only slightly slower than humans (20 years instead of 18). However, culturally, they are not considered mature until about 100 or so.

 

[Lacrymas]

"Оh, she might look 15, but she's actually an adult woman, I swear!"

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc

Races of the Wild said that elves physically and mentally mature only slightly slower than humans (20 years instead of 18). However, culturally, they are not considered mature until about 100 or so.

Aerie isn't a regular elf

 

[Cael]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc

Races of the Wild said that elves physically and mentally mature only slightly slower than humans (20 years instead of 18). However, culturally, they are not considered mature until about 100 or so.

Ariel isn't a regular elf

Pretty much the same. The Monster Manual doesn't distinguish between the various varieties, IIRC.

 

[Kruno]

Romance has always been shit in video games, movies, and all the romance novels I have consumed. People tell me not to eat books, but if the romance is that bad I may as well go with comfort eating!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.

You mean there is something like romance without a kink?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc

Races of the Wild said that elves physically and mentally mature only slightly slower than humans (20 years instead of 18). However, culturally, they are not considered mature until about 100 or so.

Ariel isn't a regular elf

Pretty much the same. The Monster Manual doesn't distinguish between the various varieties, IIRC.

Aerie isn't a regular elf in the sense that she has no society to judge her maturity at all. Avariel are near extinct.

 

[Cael]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc

Races of the Wild said that elves physically and mentally mature only slightly slower than humans (20 years instead of 18). However, culturally, they are not considered mature until about 100 or so.

Ariel isn't a regular elf

Pretty much the same. The Monster Manual doesn't distinguish between the various varieties, IIRC.

Ariel isn't a regular elf in the sense that she has no society to judge her maturity at all. Avariel are near extinct.

Precisely. That means that she is not pedobear material.

 

[Theldaran]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc(mm, maybe they weren't forgotten realms elves now that I think about it)

Elves in FR and generally D&D live around 200 or 300 years, they're loosely based on Tolkien elves, some of whom were nearly immortal or lived entire ages.

So, Drizzt is youthful. Not sure about Aerie but probably her weak attitude is justified, she saw too much horror when she was immature. Still, she runs through the dungeons and fights nefarious creatures without batting an eye.

Still Aerie is somewhat annoying (but I find Mazzy or Anomen more annoying) and pedo material of sorts, if you like to assert your will and dominance over a weak girl, you have some kind of problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

There exists the concept of the Yamato Nadeshiko, an outwardly submissive woman who bows down to the men in her family, but will also fight tooth and claw for what she loves. Aerie is kind of like that, and a submissive woman (not only in bed) is a popular fantasy for many straight men. I personally don't get it, it's kinda creepy, but there you go. Maybe it's the desire to protect a seemingly weak woman.

 

[Riddler]

Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!

I'm not sure if this is true, elf aging(maturation) varies based on the subtype. Avariel are very rare(considered by many to be myths), so I doubt there would be much -- if any -- in-universe documentation on it.
In BG1 Drizzt is about 72 years old, for reference.
There's one subtype of elves I know matures about the same rate as humans, they live in a volcanic place iirc(mm, maybe they weren't forgotten realms elves now that I think about it)

Elves in FR and generally D&D live around 200 or 300 years, they're loosely based on Tolkien elves, some of whom were nearly immortal or lived entire ages.

So, Drizzt is youthful. Not sure about Aerie but probably her weak attitude is justified, she saw too much horror when she was immature. Still, she runs through the dungeons and fights nefarious creatures without batting an eye.

Still Aerie is somewhat annoying (but I find Mazzy or Anomen more annoying) and pedo material of sorts, if you like to assert your will and dominance over a weak girl, you have some kind of problem.

In the non-retarded versions elves live to about 700 years but can live to 900+ years. This makes a whole lot more sense than a lifespan varying varying by some 400% or that end of adolescense would be halfway through your life.

 

[laclongquan]

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.

You mean there is something like romance without a kink?

Read my bolded note.

Point 1: Jaheira, while being a sexy widow is very nice, has her husband dead very recently. Like, not even cold corpsicle yet~
Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!
Point 3: Viconia, while legally acceptable by all means, has several ex-concubines in the past. They were all dead during her fall and escape from Drow society, so she's single now. But Viconia is a cougar of first order. Very experienced. Do you want to be the young piece of meat that she would gobble up?

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.
(To contrast, look at PST: a teenage girl who is a bit of fathercon, a suppressed nun who rule over a brothel and doesnt seem to play around at all, and a dead girl who died for love)

You forgot the last option with BG2: The male chauvinist dick.

Also, the nun in Torment doesn't play around because she completely rejects that form of fun, and with an understandable reason.

Oh I am not arguing about the reasons for their quirks. I am talking about their relative normalcy compared to BG2 character

And dont get me started on that bugger, Anomen.

I used to play male MC in order to get 3 romance options. So I didnt know about this sucker.

But this time around I play female MC. And this specimen of male candidacy make me suspect: the romance team writers, especially the one decide this fucker, is definitely female(s).

Only female would present this idiot to a female MC.

Male writers would love female MC too much to send this in.

It's not that he's chauvinist. No, that is the least of our problem.

He's selfcenter, whiny brat of an aristocratic noble.

It's not that he constantly harp on his abused part. It's forgivable if it's only that.

No, it's that he's pathetic excuse of a man in dealing with other people and others' problems.

I suspect only females (or his mother) would love such a jerk. If there's no personal quest (and the romance) He would get the chop 1st chance we get.

 

[Cael]

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.

You mean there is something like romance without a kink?

Read my bolded note.

Point 1: Jaheira, while being a sexy widow is very nice, has her husband dead very recently. Like, not even cold corpsicle yet~
Point 2: Aerie, leaving aside her whiny attitude, is a kid in term of elf age. Go for Aerie = Pedobear for the win!!!
Point 3: Viconia, while legally acceptable by all means, has several ex-concubines in the past. They were all dead during her fall and escape from Drow society, so she's single now. But Viconia is a cougar of first order. Very experienced. Do you want to be the young piece of meat that she would gobble up?

BG2 romance writer team is a bit too kinky. Like, they dont know how to write a normal romance without rely on kinks to save their ass.
(To contrast, look at PST: a teenage girl who is a bit of fathercon, a suppressed nun who rule over a brothel and doesnt seem to play around at all, and a dead girl who died for love)

You forgot the last option with BG2: The male chauvinist dick.

Also, the nun in Torment doesn't play around because she completely rejects that form of fun, and with an understandable reason.

Oh I am not arguing about the reasons for their quirks. I am talking about their relative normalcy compared to BG2 character

And dont get me started on that bugger, Anomen.

I used to play male MC in order to get 3 romance options. So I didnt know about this sucker.

But this time around I play female MC. And this specimen of male candidacy make me suspect: the romance team writers, especially the one decide this fucker, is definitely female(s).

Only female would present this idiot to a female MC.

Male writers would love female MC too much to send this in.

It's not that he's chauvinist. No, that is the least of our problem.

He's selfcenter, whiny brat of an aristocratic noble.

It's not that he constantly harp on his abused part. It's forgivable if it's only that.

No, it's that he's pathetic excuse of a man in dealing with other people and others' problems.

I suspect only females (or his mother) would love such a jerk. If there's no personal quest (and the romance) He would get the chop 1st chance we get.

The fact he is hated so much is a good reflection of the writer, IF that is the reaction he is trying to elicit. Given the general cringe that is the female options, I'd say that it is more than likely that this is the case.

All of the romances in BG2 is with an emotionally broken NPC in some way or other. It should be noted that the most grounded and non-emotionally broken NPCs (e.g., Mazzy, Keldorn, etc.) are not romance options.

 

[Riddler]

All of the romances in BG2 is with an emotionally broken NPC in some way or other. It should be noted that the most grounded and non-emotionally broken NPCs (e.g., Mazzy, Keldorn, etc.) are not romance options.

Thank god for that!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

There exists the concept of the Yamato Nadeshiko, an outwardly submissive woman who bows down to the men in her family, but will also fight tooth and claw for what she loves. Aerie is kind of like that, and a submissive woman (not only in bed) is a popular fantasy for many straight men. I personally don't get it, it's kinda creepy, but there you go. Maybe it's the desire to protect a seemingly weak woman.

submissive gfs are overrated
dark elf mommy gfs are underrated

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

It should be noted that the most grounded and non-emotionally broken NPCs (e.g., Mazzy, Keldorn, etc.) are not romance options.

Wouldn't that just be boring, going through the motions of an absolutely normal relationship? Is there a game where it's done well?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Baldur's Gate didn't have any gay people, now all of a sudden it's filled with all these bisexuals, pansexuals, gay gnomes, and long-necked black lesbians.

Bioware reveals that you - the player - were secretly gay all along.

 

[Lacrymas]

Wouldn't that just be boring, going through the motions of an absolutely normal relationship? Is there a game where it's done well?

It can't be a normal relationship when you are adventuring, but it'd be nice if we get some kind of, you know, chemistry between the people who are romancing each other. One of the reasons most video game romances are cringe is because it's forced, you have nothing in common with each other, but everyone falls head over heels for you because you are the PC. It's not surprising that the logical extreme is harem-style choices between various "types" of women - the submissive and child-like Aerie, the mature cougar Viconia, and the just-widowed Jaheira (because bereavement is sexy?). I remember the last story in Dubliners by James Joyce having the protagonist lust over his wife while she was recounting and suffering over her first now-dead love, then the protagonist blaming himself for having clownish lusts. Sometimes you get this harem with men, but it's rare, both as a female and male PC. Our own Ludo Lense talked about this in his Technomancer review, he said that the only natural romance for the PC was the dude because there is an actual history and friendship there. So, yeah, it's not really about having a "normal" relationship or going through the usual motions, it's about clicking with each other as people and that making sense.

Bioware reveals that you - the player - were secretly gay all along.

=O

 

[pomenitul]

To be fair, both Viconia and Jaheira have a history with the protagonist prior to BG2, it just isn't fleshed out as thoroughly as some of us would like. Then again, BG1 is a minimalistic game to begin with.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG