The Dark Eye The Dark Eye: Book of Heroes - real-time co-op isometric dungeon crawler

[Mortmal]

Infinitron i am old and a well of wisdom when it comes to rpg, why the fuck you need a citation? My word is truth.

 

[Morkar Left]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

They are mimicking wizard of the coast, we got ton of shit tier d&d games, it was only fair the same happen to the german most played system. Could be worse, the aventure games were fine , black guard was ok . If critical role start dark eye someday only then you will get an AAA game.

I would already be happy with the RoA HD remakes with a budget and some graphic artists / 3d modelers besides only 2 programmers...

 

[Drowed]

One of the worst things is that this game has gone 80% of the way to be a (kinda) good game... Just to drift out of the way and throw itself from a ravine in the final yards. I mean, if it allowed a direct character creation and control of its party members (or at least some level of AI configuration) it would instantly get 200% better.

It wouldn't be a "great" game yet, obviously, but getting to be a "kinda fun/good game" it's completely within its reach. And these are things that can be implemented in a very short time because essentially, the basis of what is needed is already there. The problem is that it's too late now, because even if they make the adjustment, the reception of the game was already catastrophic. Even if the game gets better with future patches, I don't think they will recover from the initial effect.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

I think the TDE publisher doesn't know care much about computer games. They do books. I watched the origin story of the game, but I don't know why that old guy from the publisher thought it was a great idea to use the TDE license for that co-op game the Finnish guys made. He's probably out of touch with what CRPGs gamers want. So you have the TDE guys who don't know much about computer games getting advice from someone who doesn't know what TDE players expect from a computer game.

 

[Morkar Left]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

I think the TDE publisher doesn't know care much about computer games. They do books. I watched the origin story of the game, but I don't know why that old guy from the publisher thought it was a great idea to use the TDE license for that co-op game the Finnish guys made. He's probably out of touch with what CRPGs gamers want. So you have the TDE guys who don't know much about computer games getting advice from someone who doesn't know what TDE players expect from a computer game.

Isn't the old guard who invented and formed TDE already pretty much gone from the franchise and doing other stuff?
Andhaira I have a feeling you know more about this topic

 

[vonAchdorf]

Isn't the old guard who invented and formed TDE already pretty much gone from the franchise and doing other stuff? Andhaira I have a feeling you know more about this topic

Yes, but the company which owns the license has been involved with TDE for about 20 years now. There have been changes to the editorial team 9 years ago, but the oldest guard of the original inventors hasn't been in charge for 20-25 years now.

 

[Morkar Left]

Isn't the old guard who invented and formed TDE already pretty much gone from the franchise and doing other stuff? Andhaira I have a feeling you know more about this topic

Yes, but the company which owns the license has been involved with TDE for about 20 years now. There have been changes to the editorial team 9 years ago, but the oldest guard of the original inventors hasn't been in charge for 20-25 years now.

Ulisses, yes seems they don't really have any clue about this.

 

[Mortmal]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

They are mimicking wizard of the coast, we got ton of shit tier d&d games, it was only fair the same happen to the german most played system. Could be worse, the aventure games were fine , black guard was ok . If critical role start dark eye someday only then you will get an AAA game.

I would already be happy with the RoA HD remakes with a budget and some graphic artists / 3d modelers besides only 2 programmers...

You shouldnt, the ROA are still perfectly fine . We need new ones, something similar with a new story and interface scaling to new resolutions.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.gamebanshee.com/news/123842-the-dark-eye-book-of-heroes-released-reviews.html

GameWatcher 5/10:

If you are a fan of old-school RPGs or a fan of The Dark Eye, Book of Heroes should be right up your alley. The mechanics are complex enough to require you to know the rule book, the world is expansive enough to have a few playthroughs, and the scope is small enough to make it manageable. However, if you have no intense interest on old-school game design or the franchise itself, I recommend you stay away – the focus on maths instead of heart and soul makes this the kind of niche game that would feel dated 10 years ago, and the end result in modern times ends up being extremely boring.

Critical Damage 9/10:

The Dark Eye: Book of Heroes is a great representation of the quality you can achieve when taking an excellent tabletop ruleset and building a video game around it. It stays true to its source material whilst not being afraid to bring some new concepts to the table that we haven’t seen in other RPGs.

It does have some minor drawbacks and frustrations in both the graphical and AI departments, but I can’t say that either of these is enough to take away from how polished and fun the game is.

"Critical Damage" looks like a site set up to give 8-9/10 scores to every game.

 

[V_K]

"Critical Damage" looks like a site set up to give 8-9/10 scores to every game.

And yet's it's the GameWatcher bit that is more eyeroll-worthy of the two.

 

[Morkar Left]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

They are mimicking wizard of the coast, we got ton of shit tier d&d games, it was only fair the same happen to the german most played system. Could be worse, the aventure games were fine , black guard was ok . If critical role start dark eye someday only then you will get an AAA game.

I would already be happy with the RoA HD remakes with a budget and some graphic artists / 3d modelers besides only 2 programmers...

You shouldnt, the ROA are still perfectly fine . We need new ones, something similar with a new story and interface scaling to new resolutions.

Yes they are but I think a remake could expand on this (using the latest ruleset, more content / better dungeons, mod support etc.). The HD remakes actually did a good job on expanding on some things. The first one was horribly buggy but ended up in a playable and enjoyable state. And it was moddable with some nice mods for it. The second improved on this somewhat. Their biggest problem was just having only 2 (!) guys doing it. With a functionally sized team of two programmers, one 3d artist and one 2d artist (mostly having an artistic eyes on what looks good), maybe a writer / quest designer plus some budget for voice acting, music and quality control there could have been a great oldschool rpg which actually would have sold. But they decided to not give a fuck and giving any support.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

So from user reviews, it seems that this game like Dark Eye's SCL or something? Basically oversimplified ARPG that pays homage to the original system only in name and theme?

 

[Infinitron]

So from user reviews, it seems that this game like Dark Eye's SCL or something? Basically oversimplified ARPG that pays homage to the original system only in name and theme?

I think the system is adapted more faithfully here than in SCL, but it's still a procedurally generated co-op isometric dungeon crawl game. Who wants that?

It's like every two years some genius developer gets the idea that what gamers really want is "Kinda like Left 4 Dead, but isometric! True tabletop roleplaying!" Before SCL you also had Shadowrun Chronicles which was a similar thing.

 

[vonAchdorf]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game, it seems to be good for what it is. If you have three friends and just want a co-op game play DOS. If you have no friends and want to play a TDE game, play Drakensang or RoA.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

With a functionally sized team of two programmers, one 3d artist and one 2d artist (mostly having an artistic eyes on what looks good), maybe a writer / quest designer plus some budget for voice acting, music and quality control there could have been a great oldschool rpg which actually would have sold.

Just looking at the thing made me ignore those remasters. They never looked like professional products to me. They were obviously stretching super thin -- a far more clever approach on a budget would have been like they did it with Bard's Tale 1-3. Not gonna happen anymore naturally, no less as DSA is mainly a German thing, so developing these games you already cater to a niche within a niche from the go...

I'd also like to see what a Kickstarter like Pathfinder could collect, but likely not going to happen too.

 

[Dodo1610]

The sad fact is we will never see a game like Drakensang or even a TDE isometric RPG like Kingmaker ever again.
Because of DND's dominance over the market, anyone who wants to make a PNP inspired CRPG will avoid TDE and use of the more popular systems.

 

[Andhaira]

Someone seems to be really interested in only releasing shit tier games for TDE without trying to do a real rpg like the RoA trilogy again. Maybe they think this way they can keep their playerbase glued to the pnp version?

I think the TDE publisher doesn't know care much about computer games. They do books. I watched the origin story of the game, but I don't know why that old guy from the publisher thought it was a great idea to use the TDE license for that co-op game the Finnish guys made. He's probably out of touch with what CRPGs gamers want. So you have the TDE guys who don't know much about computer games getting advice from someone who doesn't know what TDE players expect from a computer game.

Isn't the old guard who invented and formed TDE already pretty much gone from the franchise and doing other stuff?
Andhaira I have a feeling you know more about this topic

Yes, from what I recall Ulissess Spiegel (sp?) bought the game from the old owners during the time of 4.1e and brought out the new version (Fifth edition). However their developers include some lifelong fans and players; I think the new edition is fantastic and its my favorite tabletop RPG, though ofcourse it could certainly be improved more (english translations are also agonizingly slow)

It's far, far better than D&D & Pathfinder. They managed to hit many sweet spots, and the system while frontloaded is a breeze to play once you get out of character generation (which has so many options it can lead to option paralysis) There are some great, free character generators available online (Optolith is the best, just google and download it, its great) which are much better than anything D&D or Pathfinder (or heck any other RPG has) which can make character generation much faster and easier.

 

[Andhaira]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game, it seems to be good for what it is. If you have three friends and just want a co-op game play DOS. If you have no friends and want to play a TDE game, play Drakensang or RoA.

Or Blackguards. Blackguards was fantastic and had something Drakensang I & II (also great!) never did: TB combat.

However, if you are a TDE fan I would still recommend Book of Heroes, because they did implement the 5e ruleset (it's just simplified by not having many of the skills, special abilities, advantages, professions & spells)

They just need to quash bugs and fix performance issues ASAP and then work on improving other things (like making party-members controllable)

 

[JarlFrank]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game

you open up Roll 20 and play a TDE pen and paper session.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game

you open up Roll 20 and play a TDE pen and paper session.

Not all of us have German friends though.

 

[Darkzone]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game

you open up Roll 20 and play a TDE pen and paper session.

Not all of us have German friends though.

Ok TDE was only here in Germany popular, but that is not necessary requirement for playing it on Roll 20 with friends. You don't even need the friends for playing it on Roll 20. Don't get false ideas! I would never play it with you, becasue i'm getting old and wise.
Which results that i dislike more and more magic as option for players and love more and more Sword and Sorcery. And i would rather play Conan 2d20 or adapt the TDE ruleset towards a Conan like setting, than playing DnD right now.

 

[Andhaira]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game

you open up Roll 20 and play a TDE pen and paper session.

Not all of us have German friends though.

Ok TDE was only here in Germany popular, but that is not necessary requirement for playing it on Roll 20 with friends. You don't even need the friends for playing it on Roll 20. Don't get false ideas! I would never play it with you, becasue i'm getting old and wise.
Which results that i dislike more and more magic as option for players and love more and more Sword and Sorcery. And i would rather play Conan 2d20 or adapt the TDE ruleset towards a Conan like setting, than playing DnD right now.

It means you prefer Sword & Sorcery now to Medieval Fantasy (and its many variants)

Players can be Sorcerers in Conan2d20. Also I would strongly recommend Dungeon Crawl Classics if you like Sword & Sorcery.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If you have three friends and want to play a TDE co-op game

you open up Roll 20 and play a TDE pen and paper session.

Not all of us have German friends though.

Ok TDE was only here in Germany popular, but that is not necessary requirement for playing it on Roll 20 with friends. You don't even need the friends for playing it on Roll 20. Don't get false ideas! I would never play it with you, becasue i'm getting old and wise.
Which results that i dislike more and more magic as option for players and love more and more Sword and Sorcery. And i would rather play Conan 2d20 or adapt the TDE ruleset towards a Conan like setting, than playing DnD right now.

It means you prefer Sword & Sorcery now to Medieval Fantasy (and its many variants)

Players can be Sorcerers in Conan2d20. Also I would strongly recommend Dungeon Crawl Classics if you like Sword & Sorcery.

Yeah. Brp isn't bad either, had a game with codexers, starting with osr and switching to BRP, it was damn fun.

 

[Darkzone]

Ok TDE was only here in Germany popular, but that is not necessary requirement for playing it on Roll 20 with friends. You don't even need the friends for playing it on Roll 20. Don't get false ideas! I would never play it with you, becasue i'm getting old and wise.
Which results that i dislike more and more magic as option for players and love more and more Sword and Sorcery. And i would rather play Conan 2d20 or adapt the TDE ruleset towards a Conan like setting, than playing DnD right now.

It means you prefer Sword & Sorcery now to Medieval Fantasy (and its many variants)
Players can be Sorcerers in Conan2d20. Also I would strongly recommend Dungeon Crawl Classics if you like Sword & Sorcery.

Sword & Sorcery predates and is superior to tolkienesque fantasy. To arrive at this conclusion takes time and wisdom, but if you are smart enough you will arrive sooner or later at this conclusion.

I have seen the Dungon Crawl Classic book, and it head some fun aspects build in. Also to melt classes and races back together is neat and goes against the current narrative of everyone is equal thing. More and more people arrive slowly towards this conclusion. I have just recently seen a video of Esper the Bard where he criticised the new races from Ravnica especially the Loxodon and correctly stated that how on earth a 17 STR Loxodon and 17 STR Halfling are comparable in damage making potential. His correct conclusion is that there should be race restrictions in STR and etc. And naturally you have to be a fan of the tower of the Elephant to have this insight about the Loxodon, which already makes you more susceptible towards the epiphany of Sword & Sorcery.

I have not read the Conan 2d20 ruleset, but you are correct that Sorcery (Willpower) is a player option. Good DM or GM should not allow this, but they can use it as a guideline to create adversaries for the heroes.

But i don't know if this both systems (DDC and Conan 2d20) have good developed tactical options for combat and its roleplaying, as it is with the Battlemaster in DnD 5E (could be better, but this is a good development for DnD).

 

[vonAchdorf]

What makes TDE different is its wholesomeness. It's the Atelier of PnPs.