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Starfield Thread - now with Shattered Space horror expansion

TheDarkUrge

Educated
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
233

Honestly is a red rating deserved? Game's sitting on my shelf, I'm waiting for more patches and mods but this makes me wanna forget about it for good.

I mean as much as Todd's games are shat on I had fun with Skyrim (8/10 for me) and I even finished F3 and F4 (both 5/10 I guess). Is Starfield at least of similar average quality or is it really such an unmitigated disaster?
It feels like shovelware. There is literally nothing going for it. It's extraordinarily average in all respects and just feels boring to play, I can usually find positive things to praise in most RPGs. I finished skyrim and enjoyed it even if I liked oblivion and morrowind way more, but starfield I just can't find anything enjoyable about it. If the combat was good Starfields shortcomings might be forgivable but unlike bethesda's fallouts it has no VATS and the story/world doesnt make up for it so it's just really trash to play. So many better shooters out there, and there's no roleplaying to speak of. Between the loading screens and lack of anything interesting to do it might as well be never installed. I feel bad for wasting ~10 hours of my life giving it a try and I just pirated it, so my opinion doesnt even have the added sting about spending money on trash.. :killit:
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
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Messages
29,893
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Unwanted

Cologno

Unwanted
Joined
Jan 3, 2024
Messages
293
For those who played Oblivion and Skyrim: what did Skyrim actually add to the series? Mechanics/gameplay wise.
Add? Assuming this isn't sarcasm, the game streamlined so much from the previous games it actually subtracted. Races don't mean jack, no classes, magic particularly offensive magic is just a variation of the same spell, melee is decent at times but bouts turns into a low-grade stamina game of management.

It's a great game to explore around and muck around in, but meh otherwise.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,044
Location
Romania
Add? Assuming this isn't sarcasm, the game streamlined so much from the previous games it actually subtracted. Races don't mean jack, no classes, magic particularly offensive magic is just a variation of the same spell, melee is decent at times but bouts turns into a low-grade stamina game of management.
So Oblivion is mechanically richer then? Ok, thanks.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,651
Skyrim added dual wielding, for both weapons and spells (you can't dual wield shields though, ghey). It added perk trees instead of Oblivion's automatic perks every 25 points in each skill. It's not a lot, and it doesn't compensate for all that was removed/streamlined, but it's something.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,810
Still no creation kit, im starting to think bethesda really abandoned this PoS or are they waiting for releasing some crap DLC and release CK at the same time.
I heard that Gubb Mint wants to make access to the creation kit invite-only so nobody creates any badwrongthink mods like "Maybe New Atlantis shouldn't be 100% populated by Australian Aboriginals" or "Add back the redheads from the concept art"

Also, I think Starfield should have been limited to fake 3D like Doom 1 or low poly like Morrowind to make the random generation easier. Full 3D and modern graphics make populating an entire universe impossible, and they didn't even include VR support, so it's not like it's future-proof
 
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Iucounu

Educated
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
987
Honestly is a red rating deserved?
ZFOtVeg.png
But that's how people really look when they take selfies.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,144
Honestly is a red rating deserved? Game's sitting on my shelf, I'm waiting for more patches and mods but this makes me wanna forget about it for good.

I mean as much as Todd's games are shat on I had fun with Skyrim (8/10 for me) and I even finished F3 and F4 (both 5/10 I guess). Is Starfield at least of similar average quality or is it really such an unmitigated disaster?
Starfield is the Open World space RPG that isn't Open World (you can wander around barren procedurally-generated zones with at most a few types of alien creatures), is more of a looter-shooter than an RPG, and isn't much of a space game (not much to space other than combat, and the space combat is worse than that found in Spacebourne, which was created by a single person). Even leaving that aside, Bethesda's designers, programmers, and writers seem to be substantially less competent than the teams that created Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim, much less Morrowind. Disappointment in the context of Bethesda's earlier games is probably driving much of the negativity of the general audience.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Sep 30, 2009
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Starfield ... is more of a looter-shooter than an RPG,

I've never really understood why people describe Starfield as a looter shooter. Looter shooters have more loot, some of it's actually interesting, and the gameplay loop is tighter and more satisfying. If it's a looter shooter at all, it's a pretty piss poor one.
 

Drowed

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
1,746
Location
Core City
The thing with Bethesda games is that their strength - if you can even call it a strength - was their gameplay loop. As Todd himself used to say, "you see that mountain, you can go there", and you would find various random events, enemies, or dungeons along the way. Bethesda's post-Morrowind games are a perfect example of theme park design, you have a new toy every ten steps. These games are perfect for people who were either born with an attention deficit or are intentionally looking to play something without using their brain.

And this may sound like criticism here but it really isn't. Skyrim is the perfect example of the formula that Bethesda has managed to come up with after years of refinement, it's not by chance that it was released and re-released so many times. You open the game, pick a random direction, and just go. Things happen around you, you talk to NPCs, but everything is really vague and secondary. Nothing is really of much importance, the exploration itself is what matters. You can stop playing at any point and come back at any point exactly because the in-game events are irrelevant, you are stuck in the loop of exploring, killing enemies, collecting items, and going back to exploring.

But then in Starfield they decided that you no longer have a single big world to explore, which causes the first break in the loop. Now you have to go through 3 loading screens to go from one place to another. But unlike what happened in previous games, you don't find several different random things along the way - it's quite the opposite, you follow a whole path to find a single random thing. Essentially, they managed to break the only vaguely interesting thing that existed in their formula. And without it, you are left with having to interact with the rest of the game: the story, the dialogue, and the gameplay. And this is where you see that the king is naked. He always was, but now you can't help but look.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,810
The thing with Bethesda games is that their strength - if you can even call it a strength - was their gameplay loop. As Todd himself used to say, "you see that mountain, you can go there", and you would find various random events, enemies, or dungeons along the way. Bethesda's post-Morrowind games are a perfect example of theme park design, you have a new toy every ten steps. These games are perfect for people who were either born with an attention deficit or are intentionally looking to play something without using their brain.

And this may sound like criticism here but it really isn't. Skyrim is the perfect example of the formula that Bethesda has managed to come up with after years of refinement, it's not by chance that it was released and re-released so many times. You open the game, pick a random direction, and just go. Things happen around you, you talk to NPCs, but everything is really vague and secondary. Nothing is really of much importance, the exploration itself is what matters. You can stop playing at any point and come back at any point exactly because the in-game events are irrelevant, you are stuck in the loop of exploring, killing enemies, collecting items, and going back to exploring.

But then in Starfield they decided that you no longer have a single big world to explore, which causes the first break in the loop. Now you have to go through 3 loading screens to go from one place to another. But unlike what happened in previous games, you don't find several different random things along the way - it's quite the opposite, you follow a whole path to find a single random thing. Essentially, they managed to break the only vaguely interesting thing that existed in their formula. And without it, you are left with having to interact with the rest of the game: the story, the dialogue, and the gameplay. And this is where you see that the king is naked. He always was, but now you can't help but look.
The best moment I had in SF was having to retreat from the Mantis lair because I was out of ammo, then going back to beat it after leveling up a few times. Starfield just needs a Diablo 3 Rift on one or two planets per system
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,773
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
About the only things Starfield did better than prior Bethesda games is the persuasion mechanic and the inclusion of extra dialogue choices for different backgrounds - which are of course mechanically meaningless and just fluff, but that's still incline by bethpizda's low standards.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I thought the requirements for skill upgrading was a step in the right direction, so you couldn't just brute force your upgrades. It was a marked improvement on what they'd had before and a "truer" version of it for trying to make a system with improve by use mechanics. The game really felt like it was trying to be an actual RPG not just a walking simulator. If they hadn't fucked up the content and presentation of that content, they might've had their best RPG instead of this belly flop.

It sucks because I felt that the game *almost* hit and it was a disappointment as a result.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
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Messages
11,773
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
If they hadn't fucked up the content and presentation of that content, they might've had their best RPG instead of this belly flop.
Bruh, the content is the whole fucking game, might as well write "if they made a good game it could have been their best RPG". There's a very long road from making one "good"* system to making a good game.

*I can agree the direction has potential, but the execution sucked (it should keep track of some milestones before the skill level requirement is met) and again it ends up being another jack of all trades master of all system like in Toddout 4.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,640
another jack of all trades master of all system like in Toddout 4.
You know what's interesting about Fallout 4's progression system? Its single biggest flaw is the uncapped levelling. The game's actually only structured for 1-50, that's the top tier of the level scaling despite it letting you go to whatever, but what I've found is that it gets much more interesting if you mod-cap it at around 35. Suddenly those perk points mean something and you gotta actually focus on stuff, it seemed more appealing than Skyrim's perpetual learn-by-doing crap.
 

Butter

Arcane
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Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,651
Fallout 4 system also suffers from over-choice. It feels great to level up and earn a perk point, but as soon as you spend it you get hit with regret that maybe you should've spent it elsewhere. Too much freedom can be a bad thing for your players.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,810
another jack of all trades master of all system like in Toddout 4.
You know what's interesting about Fallout 4's progression system? Its single biggest flaw is the uncapped levelling. The game's actually only structured for 1-50, that's the top tier of the level scaling despite it letting you go to whatever, but what I've found is that it gets much more interesting if you mod-cap it at around 35. Suddenly those perk points mean something and you gotta actually focus on stuff, it seemed more appealing than Skyrim's perpetual learn-by-doing crap.
Sounds like Epic 6 in D&D. I wonder if other games can be improved by imposing gameplay restrictions on yourself. I know Deus Ex and W_D are much shittier if you play them lethally
 
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mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
If they hadn't fucked up the content and presentation of that content, they might've had their best RPG instead of this belly flop.
Bruh, the content is the whole fucking game, might as well write "if they made a good game it could have been their best RPG". There's a very long road from making one "good"* system to making a good game.

*I can agree the direction has potential, but the execution sucked (it should keep track of some milestones before the skill level requirement is met) and again it ends up being another jack of all trades master of all system like in Toddout 4.

Kind of. I found the potential of the game to be compelling at least at the beginning, where I didn't love it, but I kept coming back to it to see if it paid off anywhere. It didn't, so that's a bummer, but I think if you integrated that sort of progression system back into something like Skyrim or Morrowind, you'd end up with an objectively better game and possibly something actually good. YMMV.
 

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