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Decline Starfield - Reviews, Bethesda Slander, Todd Howard's Sweet, Sweet Lies, and more

MorsInvicta

Literate
Joined
Jul 19, 2023
Messages
7
Damn it. I posted this on a thread, but a user gave me the brilliant idea to make my own thread starting w/ my review. So here it is:

My review on Shitfield:


Bethesda Game Studios is a company that broke ground on some truly revolutionary games like The Elders Scrolls: Arena, and its sequel Daggerfall. However a long line of commercial failures afterwards pushed the company to the brink of bankruptcy. Its next game had to be a success to save the company, and the result was TES: Morrowind, a truly fantastic game of incredible creativity, set in a world unlike any seen before. It captured my attention like few other games have when it released in 2002.

Then they released the next game, TES: Oblivion. And they played it safe. Utterly safe. Gone was the fantastic creativity of Morrowind, replaced instead by the most bog standard fantasy world you could possibly create. All elements that could offend anyone were removed or heavily toned down. But it still worked, the joy of freely exploring such a vast fantasy world still held up even if the world was comparatively shallow. And with their next series of games, Fallout 3, TES: Skyrim, and Fallout 4, the formula held up. Successful, but increasingly safe, shallow games plagued by weak writing and increasingly inconsistent lore, held up primarily by the freedom of their open world and the endless modders supporting the games for decades after release.

That brings us to Starfield, the latest game from Bethesda, their first new IP in ages, and the final destination of their increasingly lazy, uninspired and utterly "safe" game design. Though I fail to understand why they were so hell bent on creating a "new" IP when they did absolutely nothing original with it. Starfield does absolutely nothing new, it's just a long series of sci-fi tropes done better by others without adding anything, or putting an interesting new spin on anything. With the recent Elder Scrolls and Fallout games they had the luxury of copying the homework of the great talents that created those franchises, but with Starfield they had to learn to walk on their own, and they faceplant right out of the gate.

The main story is the most tedious, derivative and repetitive slog I've ever experienced in a Bethesda game. Most quests are simple fetch quests, the EXACT SAME fetch quest, repeated for hours on end. The story takes forever to build any kind of momentum, and it barely reaches the pace of a gentle jog before it reaches its final unsatisfying end. It opens to a far inferior version of Mass Effect's inciting event, before going into some pseudo-religious claptrap and ultimately devolving into the most overdone sci-fi trope that has been plaguing popular culture in recent years. You'll know it when to get there, trust me. I can barely describe how much I hated the main story, and it certainly didn't help that I predicted most of the big story reveals along the way.

But what about the open world? It's always carried Bethesda games before. 1000 planets of adventure must be something, right? No. Bethesda dropped the ball here monumentally. The open world is basically a lie, an illusion of content. In truth the worlds you visit are little more than vast empty expanses of open terrain with the occasional copy/pasted structure dotted around. And it's extremely obvious how lazy it is, every "random" structure is identical down to the placement of every last item, enemy, and decoration. Worse yet is the fact that you can't fly directly to the structures, nor are there any kinds of mounts or vehicles available so you'll spend vast amounts of time walking to things. At least you can fast travel back, and good god you have to fast travel a lot in this game. Enjoy the loading screens.

The worldbuilding is some of the worst I've ever seen. There's no depth to anything. In playing it safe, every faction is just a generic stock entity, "space law enforcement", "space bank", "space bandits", "space pirates". Every character is a basic cardboard cutout, with terrible facial animations and wooden acting to boot. All animal and plant life across the galaxy is basically the same models, just with different names. It's all so bland and repetitive I can barely remember the names of any of the characters I encountered. There's nothing to distinguish one person or place from any other. Every area is equally diverse, with no distinguishing features to set them apart from any other. The worst example of this I experienced is when I found a 200 year old generation ship, launched at sublight speed from Earth to colonize another planet, and I discovered the people born and raised on said ship all spoke with clearly distinct Earth accents like Russian, African, English etc. Are you joking? Did the Africans isolate themselves in a ghetto in Cargo Bay 3 for two centuries? Did the Russians conquer and establish a fiefdom on deck 9? Bethesda's writers have clearly never experienced a truly multicultural society, because it doesn't work like this. After growing up together in a community sealed inside a spaceship they should speak the same English accent, and probably a strange form of English that distinctly diverged from what everyone else speaks after two centuries in isolation. But that idea was just too clever for Bethesda.

Then there are the bugs, of which there are many. This is pretty much part and parcel of any Bethesda game, but needs to be addressed. I've personally experienced a plethora of minor irritants such as t-posing corpses, wild physics and poorly scripted quests and triggers. This on top of many, many crashes and freezes. Save often is my advice. Hard saves, so that you can revert if necessary.

Beyond bugs there are also endless little irritating quirks that makes the game a pain to play. There are no local or interior maps, so finding your way around cities or buildings becomes irritating. Particularly in cities which have been built around long detours to get to anything, most likely to hide how small they really are.
The "skill challenges" you have to complete to progress character skills. It's just another system meant to slow the game down, to pad out the time it takes to get anything done. And the challenges are never anything interesting like, breaking into the secure vault of a band of religious zealots, or hunt a lethal predator loose on a space station that's falling into a black hole. No, it's just a grind. Do X thing Y number of times. I particularly hated having to grind space combat to pump up my Piloting skill so that I could use a ship with longer jump range.
Then there are escort quests, thankfully I haven't found many, but trying to keep a character with the survival skills of a clinically depressed lemming alive is never fun, especially with the sheer number of bloodthirsty aliens the game throws at you.

Ultimately a lot of the game's issues beside the stale writing and uninspired worldbuilding, boil down to engine limitations. The game is built on the back of the aging Creation Engine, which itself is an evolution of the Gamebryo Engine Bethesda has been using since Morrowind, over 20 years ago. Please Bethesda, let it rest. It can go no further.

To conclude, Starfield is all the bad connotations of the word "Bethesda" distilled into one game. This is the final destination for all of the lazy choices, overhyped features, stale writing, and "vast but shallow" design philosophy that Bethesda is known for. What else can I say but this? Bethesda. This isn't good enough any more! Your lazy, half-assed efforts aren't good enough. You had the unmitigated gall to ask 100$ for early access to this uninspired piece of ♥♥♥♥, the worst product you have ever cobbled together. If we are to have any hope of a decent Fallout or Elder Scrolls game in the future, there has to be a serious shakeup at Bethesda. And I doubt Todd Howard is the only problem as some have suggested. For a game to so utterly fail in so many aspects takes a considerable team effort. I can only hope that this game's failure is a wake up call and that the future will see some positive changes.

Final score: Bethesda / 10

 

sebas

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Thoughts after a few hours, which is all I am going to play:

Starfield is not about Space itself, Space is just there to help the narrative. To compare it to sci-fi books it would definitely be most like The Expanse. It's rooted in current tech, current society, it's very Americana and any physics is thrown out the window. As such it doesn't even matter that you can only fly ships in orbit, it's not like full space piloting would have anything to offer. The gaming loop is pretty clear: land on planets, survey and mine to build/sell/research and do missions for various corporations/cartels/whatever. All very "humanlike".

It's a shame that after so many years of development, this is all they have to show for. Especially when there are many great sci-fi books out there. And I'm not talking about mind benders rooted in physics like what Cixin or Weir write. There are honest work sci-fi page turners that have just enough creativity to make it worthwhile: mix up the society maybe add some aliens that aren't built on mitochondria, give genetical alteration a proper go, etc. I guess the good part is that adding some creativity into the basic loop is definitely moddable, somethingsomethingstartrek.

I'm not gonna talk about the wokeness, it's Americana like I said. So I guess trying to portray whatever te fuck is happening in the States right now makes sense.

There are significant improvements to the Creation Engine across the board. I especially liked the way beards are rendered while facial animations are decent enough.

The one thing that really surprised me was how insipid the first hour was. Every BGS game I've ever played had really awesome introductions. Not this one though, not at all.


All in all, I'm a bit shellshocked really at how poor it is.
 
Vatnik
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he worst example of this I experienced is when I found a 200 year old generation ship, launched at sublight speed from Earth to colonize another planet, and I discovered the people born and raised on said ship all spoke with clearly distinct Earth accents like Russian, African, English etc. Are you joking? Did the Africans isolate themselves in a ghetto in Cargo Bay 3 for two centuries? Did the Russians conquer and establish a fiefdom on deck 9?
Idealists often have a hard time having rational thoughts. It rots the brain.

You guys actually paid money to Todd? It's not even worth pirating 150 Gb of data
Nigga I never even bought Skyrim. I doubt more than 5 people here could claim the same.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,289
he worst example of this I experienced is when I found a 200 year old generation ship, launched at sublight speed from Earth to colonize another planet, and I discovered the people born and raised on said ship all spoke with clearly distinct Earth accents like Russian, African, English etc. Are you joking? Did the Africans isolate themselves in a ghetto in Cargo Bay 3 for two centuries? Did the Russians conquer and establish a fiefdom on deck 9?
Idealists often have a hard time having rational thoughts. It rots the brain.

You guys actually paid money to Todd? It's not even worth pirating 150 Gb of data
Nigga I never even bought Skyrim. I doubt more than 5 people here could claim the same.
I have it as part of Gamepass. Like Starfield. Might as well try it since it is for "free".
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
he worst example of this I experienced is when I found a 200 year old generation ship, launched at sublight speed from Earth to colonize another planet, and I discovered the people born and raised on said ship all spoke with clearly distinct Earth accents like Russian, African, English etc. Are you joking? Did the Africans isolate themselves in a ghetto in Cargo Bay 3 for two centuries? Did the Russians conquer and establish a fiefdom on deck 9?
Idealists often have a hard time having rational thoughts. It rots the brain.

You guys actually paid money to Todd? It's not even worth pirating 150 Gb of data
Nigga I never even bought Skyrim. I doubt more than 5 people here could claim the same.
I never bought it either. I pirated it once, and never played farther than Whiterun. I spent about 50 hours in that hold, trying out mods and doing small quests, and that was all my playing of Skyrim.
 

racofer

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Screenshot-2023-09-06-at-15-37-16-Decline-Starfield-Reviews-Bethesda-Slander-Todd-Howard-s-Sw-eet.jpg

You should consider upgrading. You computer can barely render your review, It's no wonder you didn't enjoy Shartfield.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
514
I largely agree with these reviews, my partner has been playing Garfield on the TV for the last few days on their XBOX and it's just really boring to watch.

The only thing I will say is that the idea that the Creation engine is somehow unable to perform or super outdated is largely false. Some quite good things have been done with it in the modding scene, and some parts of it are very forward-thinking (like property-referenced scripts that allow generic reuse, rather than just coding up all the game logic in the engine itself).

BUT Bethesda are particularly horrible at using it effectively. The engine supports a full skeletal animation system with proper interpolation between animation states, so it should look good, and yet they make the characters perform basic, stiff animations. It supports a dynamic script engine that should allow changing almost anything in a manner compatible with everyone else on the team, allowing for collaboration and building on a core framework, and yet they rewrite the same basic scripts over and over again for different quests. The graphical post-processing capabilities of the engine are as good as any other, and yet the smear their games with generic brown and grey textures and boring colour-space modifiers.

A lot of the bugs that occur are quest script issues, rather than engine limitations.

As a modder, the Bethesda engines are some of the easiest I have worked with. If you want to know true pain, try making a DML patch for System Shock 2 (or doing anything Dark Engine related at all)

Bethesda's tech team seems to be mostly okay. But their game designers are absolutely wasted on the tech. And Shartfield is a good example of this. They implemented the tech to allow for procedural generation of planets, and did nothing interesting with it. They made a whole interstellar-travel system, and did nothing with it.

The good news from all this is that it seems gamers might FINALLY be waking up. They can't get hyped for "OMG FALLOUT" on this one, so they have to look at the game more objectively. And it's lacking. This may be what breaks the spell of the mindless Bethesdrones and finally makes people re-evaluate the shit they are shovelling down our throats every few years.

The one thing that really surprised me was how insipid the first hour was. Every BGS game I've ever played had really awesome introductions. Not this one though, not at all.

Have you literally never played a Bethesda game before?

This is really shit but it's less of a slog than Fallout 3 Vault 101 and is less mindless than the Oblivion Sewers.

Skyrim is probably the only Bethesda game with a passable opening, in large part because it's mostly short and is at least "exciting" even if most of it's gameplay is mindless (like the rest of the game, I guess).

Fallout 4 also had the same problem. Railroaded intro with stupid fake tension and no real gameplay, but at least it was relatively short.
 
Last edited:
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Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,392
Starfield is like Skyrimfield, except you fly inside the dragon that is your spaceship, and the dragonship shits you out so you can be a chosen dragonspaceman on planets so barren, they make Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky look good. It's like if they took Ass Effect, blew up by 400 times while keeping the same amount of shitty writing and quests. Todd's magnum toddus.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
514
Starfield is like Skyrimfield, except you fly inside the dragon that is your spaceship, and the dragonship shits you out so you can be a chosen dragonspaceman on planets so barren, they make Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky look good. It's like if they took Ass Effect, blew up by 400 times while keeping the same amount of shitty writing and quests. Todd's magnum toddus.

Nah.

Skyrim is an awful game, don't get me wrong, but I sort of see why normies enjoy it because the core game loop has some fun to be had. You go to the next dungeon, kill the boss, level up and find the cool daedric artifact or cool sword.

Starfield offers nothing. Nada. Zilch. There's nothing for anyone to latch onto in this game. It's just purely bland at every level.
 

ferratilis

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Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,904
I can only hope that this game's failure is a wake up call and that the future will see some positive changes.
Sadly, that's never going to happen. Your review is written from a level-headed point of view, from a gamer's point of view, it's based on previous experience and expectations built from those experiences, the way it should be.

This is Microsoft's/Bethesda's point of view:

It's a validation of their work, and green light to continue with this kind of design. Codex should just forget about Bethesda and move on.
 

Konjad

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Damn it. I posted this on a thread, but a user gave me the brilliant idea to make my own thread starting w/ my review. So here it is:

My review on Shitfield:


Bethesda Game Studios is a company that broke ground on some truly revolutionary games like The Elders Scrolls: Arena, and its sequel Daggerfall. However a long line of commercial failures afterwards pushed the company to the brink of bankruptcy. Its next game had to be a success to save the company, and the result was TES: Morrowind, a truly fantastic game of incredible creativity, set in a world unlike any seen before. It captured my attention like few other games have when it released in 2002.

Then they released the next game, TES: Oblivion. And they played it safe. Utterly safe. Gone was the fantastic creativity of Morrowind, replaced instead by the most bog standard fantasy world you could possibly create. All elements that could offend anyone were removed or heavily toned down. But it still worked, the joy of freely exploring such a vast fantasy world still held up even if the world was comparatively shallow. And with their next series of games, Fallout 3, TES: Skyrim, and Fallout 4, the formula held up. Successful, but increasingly safe, shallow games plagued by weak writing and increasingly inconsistent lore, held up primarily by the freedom of their open world and the endless modders supporting the games for decades after release.

That brings us to Starfield, the latest game from Bethesda, their first new IP in ages, and the final destination of their increasingly lazy, uninspired and utterly "safe" game design. Though I fail to understand why they were so hell bent on creating a "new" IP when they did absolutely nothing original with it. Starfield does absolutely nothing new, it's just a long series of sci-fi tropes done better by others without adding anything, or putting an interesting new spin on anything. With the recent Elder Scrolls and Fallout games they had the luxury of copying the homework of the great talents that created those franchises, but with Starfield they had to learn to walk on their own, and they faceplant right out of the gate.

The main story is the most tedious, derivative and repetitive slog I've ever experienced in a Bethesda game. Most quests are simple fetch quests, the EXACT SAME fetch quest, repeated for hours on end. The story takes forever to build any kind of momentum, and it barely reaches the pace of a gentle jog before it reaches its final unsatisfying end. It opens to a far inferior version of Mass Effect's inciting event, before going into some pseudo-religious claptrap and ultimately devolving into the most overdone sci-fi trope that has been plaguing popular culture in recent years. You'll know it when to get there, trust me. I can barely describe how much I hated the main story, and it certainly didn't help that I predicted most of the big story reveals along the way.

But what about the open world? It's always carried Bethesda games before. 1000 planets of adventure must be something, right? No. Bethesda dropped the ball here monumentally. The open world is basically a lie, an illusion of content. In truth the worlds you visit are little more than vast empty expanses of open terrain with the occasional copy/pasted structure dotted around. And it's extremely obvious how lazy it is, every "random" structure is identical down to the placement of every last item, enemy, and decoration. Worse yet is the fact that you can't fly directly to the structures, nor are there any kinds of mounts or vehicles available so you'll spend vast amounts of time walking to things. At least you can fast travel back, and good god you have to fast travel a lot in this game. Enjoy the loading screens.

The worldbuilding is some of the worst I've ever seen. There's no depth to anything. In playing it safe, every faction is just a generic stock entity, "space law enforcement", "space bank", "space bandits", "space pirates". Every character is a basic cardboard cutout, with terrible facial animations and wooden acting to boot. All animal and plant life across the galaxy is basically the same models, just with different names. It's all so bland and repetitive I can barely remember the names of any of the characters I encountered. There's nothing to distinguish one person or place from any other. Every area is equally diverse, with no distinguishing features to set them apart from any other. The worst example of this I experienced is when I found a 200 year old generation ship, launched at sublight speed from Earth to colonize another planet, and I discovered the people born and raised on said ship all spoke with clearly distinct Earth accents like Russian, African, English etc. Are you joking? Did the Africans isolate themselves in a ghetto in Cargo Bay 3 for two centuries? Did the Russians conquer and establish a fiefdom on deck 9? Bethesda's writers have clearly never experienced a truly multicultural society, because it doesn't work like this. After growing up together in a community sealed inside a spaceship they should speak the same English accent, and probably a strange form of English that distinctly diverged from what everyone else speaks after two centuries in isolation. But that idea was just too clever for Bethesda.

Then there are the bugs, of which there are many. This is pretty much part and parcel of any Bethesda game, but needs to be addressed. I've personally experienced a plethora of minor irritants such as t-posing corpses, wild physics and poorly scripted quests and triggers. This on top of many, many crashes and freezes. Save often is my advice. Hard saves, so that you can revert if necessary.

Beyond bugs there are also endless little irritating quirks that makes the game a pain to play. There are no local or interior maps, so finding your way around cities or buildings becomes irritating. Particularly in cities which have been built around long detours to get to anything, most likely to hide how small they really are.
The "skill challenges" you have to complete to progress character skills. It's just another system meant to slow the game down, to pad out the time it takes to get anything done. And the challenges are never anything interesting like, breaking into the secure vault of a band of religious zealots, or hunt a lethal predator loose on a space station that's falling into a black hole. No, it's just a grind. Do X thing Y number of times. I particularly hated having to grind space combat to pump up my Piloting skill so that I could use a ship with longer jump range.
Then there are escort quests, thankfully I haven't found many, but trying to keep a character with the survival skills of a clinically depressed lemming alive is never fun, especially with the sheer number of bloodthirsty aliens the game throws at you.

Ultimately a lot of the game's issues beside the stale writing and uninspired worldbuilding, boil down to engine limitations. The game is built on the back of the aging Creation Engine, which itself is an evolution of the Gamebryo Engine Bethesda has been using since Morrowind, over 20 years ago. Please Bethesda, let it rest. It can go no further.

To conclude, Starfield is all the bad connotations of the word "Bethesda" distilled into one game. This is the final destination for all of the lazy choices, overhyped features, stale writing, and "vast but shallow" design philosophy that Bethesda is known for. What else can I say but this? Bethesda. This isn't good enough any more! Your lazy, half-assed efforts aren't good enough. You had the unmitigated gall to ask 100$ for early access to this uninspired piece of ♥♥♥♥, the worst product you have ever cobbled together. If we are to have any hope of a decent Fallout or Elder Scrolls game in the future, there has to be a serious shakeup at Bethesda. And I doubt Todd Howard is the only problem as some have suggested. For a game to so utterly fail in so many aspects takes a considerable team effort. I can only hope that this game's failure is a wake up call and that the future will see some positive changes.

Final score: Bethesda / 10

You still didn't answer me if it's you or you copied from that user:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970355321/recommended/1716740/
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
14,825
I can only hope that this game's failure is a wake up call and that the future will see some positive changes.
Sadly, that's never going to happen. Your review is written from a level-headed point of view, from a gamer's point of view, it's based on previous experience and expectations built from those experiences, the way it should be.

This is Microsoft's/Bethesda's point of view:

It's a validation of their work, and green light to continue with this kind of design. Codex should just forget about Bethesda and move on.

Never forget....
 

0sacred

poop retainer
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Codex Year of the Donut
I can only hope that this game's failure is a wake up call and that the future will see some positive changes.
Sadly, that's never going to happen. Your review is written from a level-headed point of view, from a gamer's point of view, it's based on previous experience and expectations built from those experiences, the way it should be.

This is Microsoft's/Bethesda's point of view:

It's a validation of their work, and green light to continue with this kind of design. Codex should just forget about Bethesda and move on.

Never forget....

you mean it is probably closer to 6 gorillion?
 
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
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