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Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

What are your favorite Gold Box games?

  • Pool of Radiance

  • Curse of the Azure Bonds

  • Secret of the Silver Blades

  • Pools of Darkness

  • Champions of Krynn

  • Death Knights of Krynn

  • The Dark Queen of Krynn

  • Gateway to the Savage Frontier

  • Treasures of the Savage Frontier

  • Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday

  • Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed

  • Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures (FRUA)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Kersey

Educated
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
74
Yep, no mouse support in DOS Curse of the Azure Bonds. Like I mentioned in the original post, I dabbled with the Amiga versions for a while, and found the mouse interface for CotAB very pleasant actually. It was quite beneficial at places, like the character icon customization screen. But the mouse interface that is in the DOS versions from Secret of the Silver Blades on doesn't do as good a job. I haven't checked everything, but I don't recall any screen being altered to take significant advantage of the mouse and shuffling through a 'menu' at the bottom of the screen (the Move, Encamp, etc. one) instead of using hot keys for that and numpad for movement is just cumbersome (and it's pretty much just as cumbersome using either the keyboard or the mouse). I think CotAB has the best interface of them all on the PC.

My pet peeve so far in Pools of Darkness is how the combat screen UI has gone all context-sensitive. When a battle begins I like to scan through the battlefield with the (A)im > (M)anual command to see where the enemies are and I can't exit the mode if I happen to leave the cursor on something that's targetable. There simply is no (E)xit command available then. Why did they change that?
 

Achmed1974

Novice
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
21
Yeah I just don't understand with the DOS why for instance I type "V" to open my character that I can't just cycle down items like the Amiga version with the arrow keys. The only reason I switched from the Amiga was I was getting bad delays with the SE during battles and stuttering. Otherwise its a much faster and fluid experience. But recently my game kept crashing on Amiga 3 minutes after a load. Whether its a corrupt save or rom who knows but that's when I switched to the DOS one.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Just finished replaying this Gateway to the Savage Frontier and though I'd jot down some impressions, since I can't find much discussion on this game on the Codex or elsewhere, depsite it apparantly selling very well back in 1991.

Overall it was a decline compared to the other Gold Box games.

I've mentioned the encounter design a few times, but it wasn't quite as bad as I remembered it from playing it the first time 20 years ago.
The main problem with the game is that the random encounters lack variety - there are usually only one type of encounter on each map or overland terrain type.
Most areas thankfully have a finite amount of random encounters. The official clue book was a nice guide in this game, and the first thing I did when entering a new area was to consult the clue book and see what it said about random encounters. On maps with a finite amount (usually about 5) I explored normally, on maps where they constantly spawn untill killing a boss I went straight for the boss, and on maps where they constantly spawn no matter what I just headed for the objective ASAP and then got out ASAP.
On the overland map traveling on roads and rivers have a much less chance of encounter than in the wilderness. In the wilderness it's a D6 chance of encounters and despite the large and attractive looking overland map there is nothing interesting whatsoever to discover. No lairs, ruins or scripted encounters; just the same encounter every 6th step or so.
On plains you encounter either Hobgoblins or Wild Boars on the road or Ankhegs if on a river, in forests Ettins or Giant Snakes, in marshes Trolls and in hills Hill Giants. IOW, not very exciting. But thankfully the tedium can be kept to a minimum by staying on roads and rivers.
So knowing this the game became more fun than a chore.

Another problem is that the game's only mildly challenging battle is the final sequence of battles, but even that can be avoided and you can win by running, or walking if invisible, from one combat map to the next untill you reach the plaza where you need to place the statues.
Hell, the game even assumes that you didn't kill Vaalgamon!
Vaalgamon is a mean mofo of a Fighter/Mage with -8 AC, 150 HP and a +5 Sword, who regenerates HP between each round. But my Hasted and Enlarged Fighter/Thief killed him with four backstabs.

I had actually hoped for a large battle in Sundabar against an army of Orcs and Trolls, but the army turned out to be just an illusion. :(
So the only battles in which I had to use buffs, potions and wands were the final three battles. First a large group of Trolls and Ettins. One well placed Stinking Cloud did wonders in this battle.
The next one was against a large group of Shambling Mounds and some mages and Zhentil commanders. A combo of Charming the Zhentil commanders, and the Wand of Deflowering Defoliation and Stinking Cloud against the Mounds (not as effective as against the Trolls and Ettins, though) did the trick here.
The Slow spell did wonders in the final battle, against the Shambing Mounds and Vaalgamon. It was the only spell that had any effect of Vaalgamon.

There was a bug with the Shambling Mounds, though. When killed they dropped som insane loot, like magic bow, Plate Mail +3, Cloak of Displacement and an Ioun Stone. The weird thing is that these items can't be found anywhere else in the game. The Shambling Mounds also had an AC of -4 while in other GB games they have AC 0.
I tried googling this but couldn't find any useful information.

The Giant Snakes were bugged to, I think. They dropped lots of Leather Armours when killed, and their attacks paralyzed instead of poisoning characters.

Another bug (I think) was with the Ascorean Mummies. If they hit you there is a chance of being infliced with Disease, which weakens you character. My Ranger, who was the only one with exceptional strength, went from 18(50) to 17 STR. No matter of Cure Disease, Dispel Magic or resting brought it back. I assumed this permanent STR loss was a bug, so I just quit and reloaded if it happened again.

Another thing that kind of worried me was that often a monster would move, but instead of attacking and getting a message that it missed the game instead made the same animation as if getting no attack due to a Slow spell.
OTOH, some "bosses" got two actions in a round, like first casting a spell and then moving and attacking.

Another possible bug was in Ascore. There is a trapped chest that my Thief had no chance of disarming, but my Paladin succeeded. And each time the disarm failed the trap would go off. Not sure it this was bug or the game trolling me.

And I was annoyed that Sweeping goblins didn't work. :mad:

The clue book doesn't mention any of these possible bugs.
I was playing DOS version 1.2 of the game, BTW. No copy protection, so I think it was a cracked version.


There were some improvements compared to the older GB games:

In battle spells effects would be shown on characters and monsters. So you could see which monsters were affected by a Slow spell, for example.

Monster AI felt slightly more random and less predictable.

The game never felt like a Monty Haul campaign and there were useful things to spend money on, like training, healing and magic items. In the Krynn games training and healing were free, for example.

When encamping the game lists all the special non-inventory items you've found.

Some events happened at special times, either a certain time after the party entering the area, or at a certain day in the week. Shops were still open in the middle of night, though.

I'm looking forward to play the sequel - Treasures of the Savage Frontier. It was the only fantasy GB game I never completed, but armed with more knowledge and a clue book it should be a less frustrating experience than the first time.
 

kmonster

Augur
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
316
Which party did you use to play the game and how many XP did your characters have at the end ? Did you use maxed stats and reloads at level up for more HP ? Did you keep the NPC you find in the beginning until the end ?
Do you plan importing your party into treasures or create a new party ?

Hold person can work too on the end boss.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Which party did you use to play the game and how many XP did your characters have at the end ? Did you use maxed stats and reloads at level up for more HP ? Did you keep the NPC you find in the beginning until the end ?
Do you plan importing your party into treasures or create a new party ?

Human Paladin
Human Ranger
Human Mage
Human Cleric
Human Cleric dualed to Mage.
Half Elf Fighter/Thief

XP at the end varied from 135,000 (Clerics) to 165,000 (Paladin).

No maxed stats. For each class I rolled one character for each gender and non-evil alignment and chose the best one.

No reloads for extra HP. Fighter types ended up with 55-70 HP.

I kept Kervish until his "transformation".

I'm definitely gonna import the party. Otherwise I'd chose a more PC party, with a wider variety of races. A Dwarf would have been nice both for RP purposes and because the Dwarven Axe +2 is a +4 Axe if wielded by a Dwarf.


Hold person can work too on the end boss.

He made his saving throw, then. But backstabbing is more fun. :D
 

octavius

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WFT is this?
A character with 115 HP, and items like "+5 Jo Stick", "Sphere Armor", "Banite Morning Star", "Rotting Short Bow", "Incandescent Battle Axe", "Piercing Long Bow" and "Defoliation Mail"?
 

Saxon1974

Prophet
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
2,121
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The Desert Wasteland
Man I have started this game like 5 times and never got very far. For some reason it just didn't hold my interest.

The only gb games I finished were pool of radiance,curse and champions of krynn

The only game in the group I really loved was pool of radiance. All the others were just ok for me for some reason
 
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Poland
After almost finishing Krynn Trilogy (I skipped DQK - I don't like high level AD&D) I decided to play Pool of Radiance. Right now I'm trying to clear the Sokal Keep. When I first met ghost of Ferran Martinez I choose to flee instead of talking with him, I'v had no idea what to tell him then and after I finally figured out what to do with him fucker don't want to show up anymore. I'v read in walkthrough that I need to talk with him to clear Sokal Keep, so I have two questions.

1. I'm totally screwed and won't be able to finish the game without talking to Ferran? (I don't have any earlier save)
2. Is it really necessary to finish PoR to enjoy later games in this series? because I don't want to start all over again.
 

Metro

Arcane
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Messages
27,792
Been a looooooooooong time since I played PoR but it's possible that the Sokol Keep mission isn't a necessary one in order to unlock new ones from the clerk. Of course... it could be. I can't recall what the mechanic is -- whether or not there are certain missions flagged as part of the main quest or whether X amount are required to get access to more. As far as your second question, the plot is tied to the next installment 'Curse of the Azure Bonds,' moreover, in my opinion, PoR is the best game in the series, anyway (excluding the inferiority of the earlier engine and lack of quick memorization and heal buttons).
 
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I kinda got used to lack of auto memorization (Champions of Krynn also lacked it) and having to manually heal every member of a party is not such a big deal on low level adventure... guess I have to start all over again. Sokal keep may seem very early, but I grinded for quite some time so it's actually few hours wasted... dagnabbit!
 

Metro

Arcane
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It sucks to have to go back and redo stuff but I'd definitely recommend playing PoR all the way through -- its overworld map content and quests are really unmatched by anything in the later installments. Pools of Darkness has a lot of variety and interesting locations but by that point you're so comically over powered it can be a bit of a dull slog through waves of powerful creatures.
 

octavius

Arcane
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After almost finishing Krynn Trilogy (I skipped DQK - I don't like high level AD&D) I decided to play Pool of Radiance. Right now I'm trying to clear the Sokal Keep. When I first met ghost of Ferran Martinez I choose to flee instead of talking with him, I'v had no idea what to tell him then and after I finally figured out what to do with him fucker don't want to show up anymore. I'v read in walkthrough that I need to talk with him to clear Sokal Keep, so I have two questions.

1. I'm totally screwed and won't be able to finish the game without talking to Ferran? (I don't have any earlier save)
2. Is it really necessary to finish PoR to enjoy later games in this series? because I don't want to start all over again.

1. I think you can complete the game without complating all missions. But I would at least go back to the clerk and check what she says, after you have cleared out the rest of the keep and found the armoury behind a secret door.
Also, exiting and re-entering the keep may reset Ferran.

2. Not really. But some NPCs appear in later games, and you may not recognize them.


It sucks to have to go back and redo stuff but I'd definitely recommend playing PoR all the way through -- its overworld map content and quests are really unmatched by anything in the later installments.

Pool of Radiance was really the only Gold Box game that did the overland map right. Gateway to Savage Frontier and Champions of Krynn has nothing of interest to discover, and most of the other game have too much random encounters, but thankfully not all of them result in combat, and they have interesting things to discover, especially Death Knights of Krynn.
Curse of the Azure Bonds had the most unique overland map, where you have limited movement options. Most players seem to not like it, but I always thought wilderness combat in the GB games was a chore with the terrain just being annoying instead of tactical. So I prefer the limited time spent on the overland.


Pools of Darkness has a lot of variety and interesting locations but by that point you're so comically over powered it can be a bit of a dull slog through waves of powerful creatures.

Tell me about it...
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
Just wanted to say Ray's The Realm Series for FRUA handles Higher Level D&D much better than the High Level Gold Box Games. It's actually far entertaining and enjoyable. It's not perfect, but still well done over all. It's almost like a well done PnP session, of which he regularly does.
 

dragonbait

Augur
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Jul 4, 2009
Messages
290
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Hi, Sokal Keep or is it Sokol Keep? The map and the game have different spellings. Anyways... The keep is not required to complete the game. In fact, there are allot of quests that are not required. You could plow right through the slums, kuto's well, podol plaza, storm stojanow gate and valjevo castle if you wanted to. That is the most direct route, but there is so much more that you can do IF you want to. Pool of Radiance is accommodating in that aspect. In regards to the Sokol Keep, the passwords are Lux, Samosud, and Shestni. I believe Lux is the word that you give Ferran and Samosud and Shestni you give to the undead. I could have these mixed up but I'm pretty sure that's the way they are. There is a secret door in the northern areas of the Keep leading westward that you will at least want to find so you can pick up some cool items from the Keep. I did a playthrough some years ago back when playthroughs were normally done with screenshots rather than videos if you care to have a looksie.
http://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/pool/dragonbait/PoR.html
 

Melmoth

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
82
See title. Basically new to any pre-Fallout wRPGs, and looking for tips. I've played everything contemporary (1999ish to now), but after trying Knights of the Chalice demo, and playing an hour or so of Dark Sun 1 (amazing so far), I'm curious what will be easiest to get into. I've been interested in trying the Gold Box games, but I'm really not sure what to expect and I'd love someone to point me to what's best.

Also feel free to recommend me other old school RPGs - especially weird or unconventional ones that aren't typical settings.
 

MMXI

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
2,196
See title. Basically new to any pre-Fallout wRPGs, and looking for tips. I've played everything contemporary (1999ish to now), but after trying Knights of the Chalice demo, and playing an hour or so of Dark Sun 1 (amazing so far), I'm curious what will be easiest to get into. I've been interested in trying the Gold Box games, but I'm really not sure what to expect and I'd love someone to point me to what's best.

Also feel free to recommend me other old school RPGs - especially weird or unconventional ones that aren't typical settings.
Hmm, interesting. You'll most likely get lots of Pool of Radiance recommendations as it tends to be a favourite. It's no doubt one of the best Gold Box games (if not the best), but I wouldn't say it's the easiest to get into for someone relatively new to pre-Fallout cRPGs due to the interface issues fixed up in its sequel. So basically I could recommend you Curse of the Azure Bonds, but why would you want to start a series with the second game? So I think the best recommendation would probably be Champions of Krynn. It's the start of a trilogy of games and is free from some of the interface issues of Pool of Radiance. It's also somewhat more linear, which may be a positive or negative.

As for other old RPGs: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...oved-list-of-decent-to-must-play-crpgs.60723/
 

MisterStone

Arcane
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Apr 1, 2006
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The Krynn ones are p. good IIRC. Actually, I only say that because they are the only ones I played back in the day.

The three games are Champions, Death Knights and Dark Queen of Krynn. I think they have the advantage of being later than the first wave of Forgotten Realms games so they're a bit more polished perhaps. Eh, it's all a blur anyway, but I know I liked these. They epitomize the whole squads combat, mazes 'n loot gameplay of the Goldbox games as far as I'm concerned. The only downside perhaps is that the setting has Kenders, which are a retarded player race by anyone's standards. I don't think they really play a part in the game other than as a PC race tho.
 

Jaesun

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Personally I would recommend playing the following:

Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Secret of the Silver Blades

This will give you a good over all "feel" of the series and engine. Then if you want MOAR:

Champions of Krynn
Death Knights of Krynn
The Dark Queen of Krynn

This features a slightly different rule set. Seriously, a fighter mage wearing plate aromor casting Fireball spell. :D

It is a good series of games , even if you hate the setting.

Then when you come to the concusion this Gold Box series is SO FUCKING AWESOME! But what if they did Gold Box... IN SPACE!!! Well they did:

Buck Rogers
Countdown to Doomsday
Matrix Cubed

THEN when you finally cannot get enough of this awesome engine we have the awesome FRUA (Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures).

Read this: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ealms-unlimited-adventures-frua-thread.61909/

Ray's The Realm Series should keep you busy for months and months.
 

octavius

Arcane
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I agreee with MMXI that Champions of Krynn is probably the best bet.
Pool of Radiance is a better game IMO but COK is more linear and has better UI. The Krynn games also has more scope for non-human characters to advance to high levels, while in the Pool games you are screwed if you use non-humans and want to use them the whole series.
Gateway to the Savage Frontier is even more user friendly, and is quite easy. It suffers from poor encounter design and repetive combat, but it's probably the easist to get into.
 

Melmoth

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
82
Cool, thanks for your suggestions guys, I'm taking notes. If anyone else has more, feel free to weigh in. Also that list of yours is awesome so far MMXI, already found a couple RPGs I didn't know about.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
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Codex 2012 MCA
Some people have praised Amberstar and Ambermoon which were released for Amiga, they are not goldbox games though. I need to correct Jaesun a tad, there were just two Buck Rogers games: Buck Rogers - Countdown to Doomsday and Buck Rogers - Matrix Cubed.
 

Kersey

Educated
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
74
I'd say Pool of Radiance. It was what I started with and I had such fun with it. If the interface is going to be a problem I can't see it not being a problem in any of the later games either.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
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Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,481
Pool of Radiance is not that complicated, and it's pure fun. Just start with the first one.

You should also try Darklands, Ultima 4 and Might & Magic 2 if you want something different.
 

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