So, World of Tanks, I play it, here's some criticism.

[Ulminati]

I never met anyone who thought about them like that, everyone I know who play WoT regards them as normal cost of maintaining a tank, just like ammo and repairs.

wait wait... you load AMMO into your tank!? For silver credits!? Geez, talk about pay2win



:averagemanatee:

 

[trais]

I mean by being shot by a russian tank, while barely peeking over the top of a ledge in a german tank, which WG.net has decided should be higly flammable when shot from the front.

Now you're exaggerating, even the most flammable German tanks (Panther and Panther II) don't lit up from shots to the upper part of the hull. They can destroy radio or turret ring and kill radio operator or driver, but to damage the transmission engine nitroglycerin storage it has to hit at least bottom 50% of the hull.

 

[Zdzisiu]

I see the reasoning of Average Manatee, he hides behind an obstacle, a stupid heavy drives around a corner and Average Manatee hits his front wheel on the tracks and detracks him. Average Manatee is then very happy as he wil now have some time to put a couple of shots into the helpless heavy who can't move back to cover and can't shot because his turret is still behind the obstacle. But Io and behold! This jew, this cheating motherfucker, uses a small repair kit and repairs his tracks instantly, now Average Manatee is fucked.

But for me, as long as everybody can buy those consumables for ingame credits, there really is no problem.

 

[Average Manatee]

And seriously, bought skill? Really? Consumables cost 3k credits a piece, so you can easily afford them on T4+ and still make a loads of profits. I never met anyone who thought about them like that, everyone I know who play WoT regards them as normal cost of maintaining a tank, just like ammo and repairs.

It's not the cost. It's that it overrides proper gameplay mechanics. That when a tank is disabled it should not be fixed instantly. Everyone being able to buy it doesn't fix the issue, it's still distorting gameplay mechanics by making it so that the absolute best and only chance a low tier tank has against a high tier, properly executed, can be nulled by something that gives your opponent a second shot. When you are the T4 against the T6 it simply doesn't help you to repair YOUR tracks because you die in the first shot (usually to a no-skill autoaim to the heaviest part of your armor, as Ulminati states). It's effectively giving an a much greater advantage to bad players while making it harder for good players to exercise their skill because enemies are able to randomly subvert their proper application of tactics.

Just had a battle with a KV-1 vs Ferdinand charging around a corner. Thanks to consumables TDs can offensively charge without problem and win, even though TDs are supposed to get raped when they are tracked and you are stationed 90 degrees away from their gun view. What option is there for the KV-1 in this picture once the Ferdinand is able to ignore that track? It's not like having a consumable of my own would have evened the odds, once the TD is facing me I'm fucked hard. Taking the intelligent approach of targeting tracks actually hurt me, I should have dumbed down and simply fired into the middle like a retard so I would score more damage, at least I would have gotten some XP out of that.

 

[trais]

The repair and first-aid kit mechanic is there, because without it the defender's advantage would be much bigger and the game would be even worse campfest than it is now. It basically allows to nullify the advantage of the lucky first shot and thus allows to push more often, thus making gameplay more fun. While perma-detracknig is still a viable tactic, you just need better position to pull it of alone or you need to work with at least one of your teammates. And as I said earlier, it's not your job to fight higher tier tanks alone. So if you're in that kind of situation then either you fucked up (by advancing too fast) or your teammates fucked up (by making lemming-train or dying too fast) and you should be punished for that.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Ehhh... what's the big deal? I almost never waste(d) repair kits on simple detracks (granted I didn't play scouts, it's different story in this case), only situation where I would do this if I was begin hammered by arty and I had spot to hide nearby. It's simple really, if I use it on track I can't use it on gun or ammo rack later and these things get damaged pretty often. While I don't care about going around with damaged track because all I lose is a bit of mobility which isn't that big deal if you're good at positioning, damaged gun or ammo rack really hurt your effectiveness, not to mention you're sitting on bomb waiting to explode in case of ammo. There is another issue, if someone is aiming for your tracks one measly kit won't help you that much, after all it's easy enough to break them again. Though ofc YMMV if first skill you max out on your crew isn't repair (and btw you should totally do this on ALL tanks and td's). Oh and Kv1 vs Ferd ... I don't think you could win repair kit or not. I think guy simply didn't know what's behind the corner crapped his pants and blown kit just to be safe. The thing is shots on tracks most of the time don't do any damage other than to tracks (you need right angle so shot also goes into hull), so you could waste ammo keeping him still for a while (kit or not I highly doubt you'd be able to hold him like that for long anyway) but outcome would be the same, you'd lose simply because other guy had by far superior tank (main problem here is that MM is shit). From my experience only way to shut down TD for good isn't aiming for tracks and hoping he can't repair them before you load your next shot (and don't miss it) but making it impossible for him to turn - going side by side with him, only thing he can do is to go forward or backwards which you can do too. I killed many JgTigers and Ferds like this though you'd need faster tank for this, KV's I'm afraid are too slow.

 

[Average Manatee]

The repair and first-aid kit mechanic is there, because without it the defender's advantage would be much bigger and the game would be even worse campfest than it is now. It basically allows to nullify the advantage of the lucky first shot and thus allows to push more often, thus making gameplay more fun. While perma-detracknig is still a viable tactic, you just need better position to pull it of alone or you need to work with at least one of your teammates. And as I said earlier, it's not your job to fight higher tier tanks alone. So if you're in that kind of situation then either you fucked up (by advancing too fast) or your teammates fucked up (by making lemming-train or dying too fast) and you should be punished for that.

I should mention that a fellow KV-1 was there with me. 2 Heavy tanks and we didn't even take out half the health of the dumbest TD imaginable. To be fair, the other KV-1 didn't go for a track, but if mine had held we should have cleaned him up easily.

Camping should be beaten by tactical flanks and distractions. That is more than enough for 90% of situations. There is no such thing as a "lucky first shot", either you drive into a stupid situation or you don't. If you see an enemy tank point his gun right at your hiding position you should call for support, not drive out like a moron. All you need is for his aim to be pointed in another direction for a split second to push and and make your shot.

 

[trais]

I should mention that a fellow KV-1 was there with me. 2 Heavy tanks and we didn't even take out half the health of the dumbest TD imaginable. To be fair, the other KV-1 didn't go for a track, but if mine had held we should have cleaned him up easily.

There you go, the cause of your demise. I've personally seen people in randoms doing it properly - I kill the tracks, enemy uses repair kit and bam! - my mate (random guy, but apparently not an idiot) kills them again.

Camping should be beaten by tactical flanks and distractions. That is more than enough for 90% of situations.

What game are you playing then? Because in WoT, every smartass who leaves a hard cover to try flanking and distractions gets usually blown to pieces by arty.
Flanking kinda works in city maps, but that's Himmelsdorf, and half of the Ruinberg.

There is no such thing as a "lucky first shot", either you drive into a stupid situation or you don't. If you see an enemy tank point his gun right at your hiding position you should call for support, not drive out like a moron. All you need is for his aim to be pointed in another direction for a split second to push and and make your shot.

So you've never been hit by an arty, 30 seconds into the battle, after being spotted by one of the super-scouts while you were one the move, going to your position? High-tier arty shells doesn't even have to hit you directly, the splash from a miss by 15 meters still have a chance to destroy half of your modules and kill half of your crew. With consumables you can fix yourself and fight, without them you're fucked for the rest of the match.

 

[Average Manatee]

I should mention that a fellow KV-1 was there with me. 2 Heavy tanks and we didn't even take out half the health of the dumbest TD imaginable. To be fair, the other KV-1 didn't go for a track, but if mine had held we should have cleaned him up easily.

There you go, the cause of your demise. I've personally seen people in randoms doing it properly - I kill the tracks, enemy uses repair kit and bam! - my mate (random guy, but apparently not an idiot) kills them again.

Except your enemy could just as easily be carrying 2 repair kits. Do we now need 3 Heavy Tanks to take down 1 TD in a situation where the TD is supposed to be an easy kill? This also presupposes that the TD won't simply wait until the 2nd heavy has taken his shot (thinking that there is no repair kit), then repairs his treads.

Camping should be beaten by tactical flanks and distractions. That is more than enough for 90% of situations.

What game are you playing then? Because in WoT, every smartass who leaves a hard cover to try flanking and distractions gets usually blown to pieces by arty.
Flanking kinda works in city maps, but that's Himmelsdorf, and half of the Ruinberg.

Flanking OR distraction. All you need is to be 50 meters away from a friend, he pops out for .1s, enemy guns focus on him, you pop out for .5s and take a shot unmolested. If this isn't possible, retreat until it is.

There is no such thing as a "lucky first shot", either you drive into a stupid situation or you don't. If you see an enemy tank point his gun right at your hiding position you should call for support, not drive out like a moron. All you need is for his aim to be pointed in another direction for a split second to push and and make your shot.

So you've never been hit by an arty, 30 seconds into the battle, after being spotted by one of the super-scouts while you were one the move, going to your position? High-tier arty shells doesn't even have to hit you directly, the splash from a miss by 15 meters still have a chance to destroy half of your modules and kill half of your crew. With consumables you can fix yourself and fight, without them you're fucked for the rest of the match.

Don't be so brash about rushing into the middle of the map 30s into the match? I've never seen a truly top-tier arty, but all of them take forever to aim. Scout tanks may spot you, but you shouldn't be remaining in an arty's sights for 10s while they prepare their shot.

 

[Zdzisiu]

You can't have two repair kits. Ok, you can if you have a small repair kit for credits and a big repair kit for gold. The game simply do not allow having multiple consumables of the same type on the same tank.

As for the arty bit. Trais means that you get spotted by a scout while you are leaving your own base, and you have no idea that you have been spotted, and then you get a hit for like 800-1000hp from high tier arty. There are some maps on which a good scout can detect half of the enemy team in the first 15-30 seconds without being detected himself and keep them lit for quite some time.

 

[trais]

Except your enemy could just as easily be carrying 2 repair kits.

No, you can't stack consumables.

Flanking OR distraction. All you need is to be 50 meters away from a friend, he pops out for .1s, enemy guns focus on him, you pop out for .5s and take a shot unmolested. If this isn't possible, retreat until it is.

Pops out from where? Because I can't really imagine this situation.

Don't be so brash about rushing into the middle of the map 30s into the match? I've never seen a truly top-tier arty, but all of them take forever to aim. Scout tanks may spot you, but you shouldn't be remaining in an arty's sights for 10s while they prepare their shot.

It's not middle of the map, it's right outside of your base. Like half-way between your base and the church in Malinovka (starting at the side with no buildings).
Aim time of top arties are 6-7 seconds. With rammer, BiA etc. it's close to 5 seconds. So they look where the scout is going and aim in that general direction, when scout spots a target they take ~3 seconds to aim properly and shoot. And they don't really need to hit anything dead on, because HE splash is huge and powerful enough to badly fuck any unlucky tank.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's possible that my experience with artillery is biased considering no one except the top tiers are using 100% crew and all that shit (or if they are they are probably wallet warriors who suck anyway). My Grille takes like 10s to aim and 30s to reload. In any case, this is something that should be fixed by fixing high-tier artillery, not by fucking up the rest of the gameplay.

Even if we don't assume 2 repair kits, nothing prevents the TD from waiting until the 2nd shot has hit to use their only repair kit. Same outcome either way, 1 TD wins against 2 heavies when it should have gotten mauled.

 

[trais]

I'm done with this fucking game. Fucking arty bullshit. I'm sick and tired of fighting in the same arty-safe spots in every battle because going any other route will get you inevitably nuked by the fuckers whose only skill is to press 'w' or 's' after every few shots. And even outplaying enemies in those safe spots is pointless, because the moment you clear the flank by scoring a few kills, the enemy arty will realize you're not a total retard like the rest of your team and will be focusing on you for the rest of the match. 1 on 1 those fuckers have an advantage too - because of their giant camo bonus they will spot any approaching tank first. So if they know you're coming and you have less than 1000hp - you're fucking dead.

Fuck that shit. I'm so butthurt right now I'm not gonna touch this crap until they provide me with an option to keep those fuckers away from my battles.

 

[Zdzisiu]

Tier VII and VIII arties really are fearsome beasts, I saw them winning a battle easily, taking half the kills if there were like 3 of them on the same team. All in all, something should be done with high tier arty. And I'm playing arty myself, at the GW Panther already (TVI).

 

[Ulminati]

According to average manatee the solution is to have a repair kit. This will make you invulnerable

I don't know if something changes signifigantly for high tier arty - I'm currently stuck in the Grille. But for the Grille, the only way I'm hitting someone is if he holds still for 15-20 seconds 'cause of the retarded high aiming time and shell time. And this is with vertical stabilizer, gun rammer and 100% crew.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

I don't know if something changes signifigantly for high tier arty - I'm currently stuck in the Grille. But for the Grille, the only way I'm hitting someone is if he holds still for 15-20 seconds 'cause of the retarded high aiming time and shell time. And this is with vertical stabilizer, gun rammer and 100% crew.

Try out SU-26, quick aim and lot of success. I'm training up for Grille with Wespe and it's awful, I see that nothing better is coming in the future :<

 

[Ulminati]

I don't know if something changes signifigantly for high tier arty - I'm currently stuck in the Grille. But for the Grille, the only way I'm hitting someone is if he holds still for 15-20 seconds 'cause of the retarded high aiming time and shell time. And this is with vertical stabilizer, gun rammer and 100% crew.

Silly german tanker. Play russian!

 

[Average Manatee]

Sounds about right.

 

[Ulminati]

Finally got the 105mm gun for the JgPanther yesterday. The reload time is a bit painful to deal with, but the damage is sooooooo gooooood.

 

[Father Walker]

Oh yeah, JagdPanther with the best gun is pretty awesome. Having fun with it so far.

In related news, T-44 is becoming my new favorite tank. It becomes a beast, once you get new engine, turret and mount 100mm gun.

 

[Ulminati]

I was kinda ambivalent about the 105mm since reload time took a nasty hit in the balls and DPM went down. But that extra oomph in the alpha strike is enough to strike terror into people.

 

[Father Walker]

Reload isn't that bad imo (with rammer and decent crew) and the firepower is very solid. The only thing which annoys me is frontal armor, which is pretty easy to penetrate by most tanks.

 

[Ulminati]

Well duh. German tank destroyer. WG.net hate them for not being russian enough

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Was just chillin, listening to goon EvE podcast (epic shit going down) and then I notice I have racked up a few kills and it's a 2v6 situation. Let's just say I handled it just fine

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Played a bit, looks like 7.4 didn't crippled M18 in a significant way as I feared.
Slower turret rotation makes some difference, though. Trick with driving around a crappy heavy is now very hard and maybe even impossible without a speed advantage, like a downhill. Doing a hull rotation to compensate turret rotation is a must-do now. At least when aiming at fast- moving tank in medium or close distance, or tank with average speed in close distance.
Looks like the entire branch of TDs is affected, maybe they modified some shared parameters.

Still a decent TD and grim reaper in low tier battles.