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Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
I didn't know that, but this doesn't make it a better idea. I think Chris should be concentrating on the space sim part, which is more important.
I believe they are concentrating on the space sim portion, but boarding actions are a feature beloved by almost everyone, including many interested Codexers—and in a very real sense, boarding is an integral part of the space sim. It's one of the natural answers to the question: "I'm playing a game about starships. What sort of things can I do?" Kicking down the door and taking an enemy ship dates back to real-life naval warfare and privateering of the ancient world, various civil, regional and world wars, even Star Wars (which begins with a boarding action) and of course countless episodes of Star Trek.
Now yes, including it as a feature in a space sim is ambitious, and certainly "It may be too ambitious" is a real and legitimate concern held by many, including me, believe it or not. However, the FPS mechanics have been planned and promised since before the Kickstarter ended almost a year ago. Given that they're using the CryTek engine and that your avatar in the Hangar Module already moves about pretty much as you'd expect from an FPS, and that any fucktard (two guys in their basement can do it, fairly well actually) can model and program some perfectly functional guns, this won't take a great deal of work. They're not building Half-Life 3 from scratch. The FPS mechanics won't need to be revolutionary or even stand up on their own, as they'll be part of a much bigger picture.
My guess is that level-building for the lawless FPS arenas will be farmed out to another company for a few hundred thou, which is fine. Again, they don't need to make Half-Life 3 here. A fun and challenging diversion as part of a much bigger picture is totally acceptable.
*** Side note: I've walked an avatar around inside the Constellation now of course, and let me tell you, it's fucking cramped when contemplating boarding actions. The interior is wide enough for perhaps five or six men to stand abreast (seven or eight, if they squeeze shoulder-to-shoulder), and the walkable length is about 50-60 feet or so. Plus, there are chairs, fold-out wall tables, elevators, bulkheads, bunks, and geegaws stuffed in. I can't wait to see what boarding actions are going to look like in there.
Now yes, including it as a feature in a space sim is ambitious, and certainly "It may be too ambitious" is a real and legitimate concern held by many, including me, believe it or not. However, the FPS mechanics have been planned and promised since before the Kickstarter ended almost a year ago. Given that they're using the CryTek engine and that your avatar in the Hangar Module already moves about pretty much as you'd expect from an FPS, and that any fucktard (two guys in their basement can do it, fairly well actually) can model and program some perfectly functional guns, this won't take a great deal of work. They're not building Half-Life 3 from scratch. The FPS mechanics won't need to be revolutionary or even stand up on their own, as they'll be part of a much bigger picture.
My guess is that level-building for the lawless FPS arenas will be farmed out to another company for a few hundred thou, which is fine. Again, they don't need to make Half-Life 3 here. A fun and challenging diversion as part of a much bigger picture is totally acceptable.
*** Side note: I've walked an avatar around inside the Constellation now of course, and let me tell you, it's fucking cramped when contemplating boarding actions. The interior is wide enough for perhaps five or six men to stand abreast (seven or eight, if they squeeze shoulder-to-shoulder), and the walkable length is about 50-60 feet or so. Plus, there are chairs, fold-out wall tables, elevators, bulkheads, bunks, and geegaws stuffed in. I can't wait to see what boarding actions are going to look like in there.
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I've got no problem with FPS mechanics, as they clearly aren't going to be the focus of the game, just icing on the cake. Anyone who has been following the game knows it has been planned from the start.
Mortmal
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
- Messages
- 9,502
No problem with the fps part , being able to move your pilot around in your ship then fighting after landing on some unlawful planet thats a good idea, very space opera like.
Problem is when you read about star citizen its full of good ideas , promises everything and more, from space battles , trading, universe exploration to asteroid and mining exploitations. Ask anything about space citizen, its in! I remember origin credo was " we create worlds" thats exactly what he seems to do.
Yet its still all dream, i am wary of those guys selling elixirs of eternal youth . You can see how well the walking in station was done for eve , one room to visit, nothing to do completely cosmetic useless addon. Eve wanted to merge a fps too, thats the purpose of dust, sadly dust is a very shallow and average fps in my opinion.I dont see how chris robert will succeed in doing everything right at once when those guys are failing miserably after so many years with a bigger budget.
Problem is when you read about star citizen its full of good ideas , promises everything and more, from space battles , trading, universe exploration to asteroid and mining exploitations. Ask anything about space citizen, its in! I remember origin credo was " we create worlds" thats exactly what he seems to do.
Yet its still all dream, i am wary of those guys selling elixirs of eternal youth . You can see how well the walking in station was done for eve , one room to visit, nothing to do completely cosmetic useless addon. Eve wanted to merge a fps too, thats the purpose of dust, sadly dust is a very shallow and average fps in my opinion.I dont see how chris robert will succeed in doing everything right at once when those guys are failing miserably after so many years with a bigger budget.
Data4
Arcane
If there's just a basic framework for FPS stuff, with maybe a handful of quick mission types, this might be better left for modders. In fact, I could see it doing well in that respect if they just make a few missions as a showcase for the possibilities, and then turn it over to the modding community to go nuts with.
Stereotypical Villain
Arcane
Add another five years to development time as well. Money well spent on the hubris of one hipster douche with lofty dreams which will never come to fruition.
HEAR THAT, CLEVE?! YOU DID IT WRONG ALL ALONG!
bminorkey
Guest
Makes no sense to do this. FPS games will always do FPS way better than a spaceship sim can hope to. Modern Warfare 2 cost $50 million to dev ($200 mil including promotional budget), money that was spent on the shooter aspects of it alone.
bminorkey
Guest
Riddle me what mediocre FPS elements add to this game.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 14,991
Fucking boarding bitch.
Drakron
Arcane
- Joined
- May 19, 2005
- Messages
- 6,326
Same as DUST "numbers" ... of course it lacks the utter stupidity of DUST that was a FPS on a console that was connected to a MMO on the PC, they even had the balls to say DUST was selling PS3 before reality come crashing down on them.
Sure the engine was made for FPS but how many people that like flight sims are going to say "oh boy, what I would really like is some cover base shooting right now" ... despite some people that have their heads in the clouds and their wallet in Chris Roberts possession say, the fact is tacking on a FPS mode is going to divert resources, even if off-sourced they would have been put on the main game.
Also if you ask me, the time were it jump the shark was with the cash shop, the fact they tried to hide speaks volumes ... kinda hard to say its not "p2w" when you sell ships that cost credits, put a insurance that never ends on them and then put weapons (and I assume other gear would be next) on a cash shop, there seem to be too many "realistic" mechanics that are just pointing to the cash shop ... died and lost gear? here, you can buy it back as everyone else is forced to grind and the pledge ships would not been so bad if not for the whole insurance scheme that benefits those players because its a drain they dont have to deal with.
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 8,363
The multiplayer appears to be a lost cause due to pay2win, but I hope we can still get a halfway decent single player game out of it, even if it isn't the main focus. There aren't enough space games on the market these days.
Glad I didn't back this with any cash though, I'll get it after release if it's any good.
Glad I didn't back this with any cash though, I'll get it after release if it's any good.
I understand your concerns, and I'm glad you are at least going to see how it turns out before passing final judgement.
It's really far too early to judge this as a lost cause due to being able to buy some ships and starter weapons in the shop. Who really cares that some people will be buying ships quickly in the shop? I'm going to be having far too much fun flying around in my starter ship trading/smuggling/bountyhunting to care what others are doing. It's not like I can't get the same shit anyway, it will just take more effort. But that's called GAMEPLAY and I'm looking forward to it. Chris Roberts is adamantly against the kind of grinding you see in traditional MMO's so I'm not too worried. So far I've donated $45 dollars to gaurantee my spot in alpha/beta and I will probably increase the donation as more information is revealed.
It'll make it twice as funny when the people who buy their ships lose them in battle. Even if they insure their ship, there is still a waiting period that increases every time they die. If they don't insure them, then they are fucked and they just lost hundreds of dollars of real life cash. Not that there's anything wrong with utilizing the cash shop right now. It's what's making this game possible.
Plus, as you said, there is also the singleplayer game, and I think people are going to be seriously surprised at how much work they are going to put into it.
Plus, if the Persistant universe is not your thing, you can still play on privately ran servers ala freelancer, where there is no "p2w" cash shop whatsoever. Best of both worlds.
This game is promising so much that I have been desperately hungry for over the last 15 years or so, that I have no problem putting down a measly 50 bucks or so in hopes that it will even meet half of those expectations. Chris Roberts is one of the only people who I think can pull this kind of thing off.
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Seems me and SBHGeorge pretty much have the exact same view on this game. At least he expresses my exact worries, and the worries of many others in this thread.
Still looking forward to humbly apologizing to Blaine when it turns out Roberts has succeeded in making a complete Wing Commander single player game and a perfect simulationist MMO with depth in its first person mechanics even though they seem sorta tacked on.
Still looking forward to humbly apologizing to Blaine when it turns out Roberts has succeeded in making a complete Wing Commander single player game and a perfect simulationist MMO with depth in its first person mechanics even though they seem sorta tacked on.
It has to be perfect? I'm not even expecting that, especially not in the early months. I'm not twelve years old. I'm just excited that space sims are making a small comeback here.
As for the first-person mechanics, I expect them to be mediocre and relatively shallow by the standards of a full-blown shooter (though I do hope for more)—but as long as they get the job done adequately, that'll hardly matter. In my view, accomplishing boarding actions through some means is the goal, not creating a deep and enjoyable first-person shooter experience. In a persistent sandbox universe, even shitty, awkward gameplay can be immensely rewarding and satisfying if it's a means to an end. The preceding doesn't apply to the starship flight and fight models, of course.
OK, OK, so I went a bit overboard
Yeah, I can't really think of a sandbox with shitty gameplay where it wouldn't have been better without the shitty, tacked on parts...
You do see my point though, right? If the FPS elements are good, and I hope they will be, that'll be fantastic. If they're mediocre, which is a more realistic expectation (especially at release), that'll be acceptable. If they're bad, that'll be annoying and disappointing, yet if they get the job done and the rest of the game is good, that too is far from a deal-breaker.
I don't see them as a deal-breaker, sure. I see them as Yet Another Glorious Example of Feature Creep. Sure, the perspective of mediocre FPS mechanics is "ye, whatevs", but it's another concept on the list of stuff.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,689
http://www.somethingawful.com/video-game-article/star-citizen-funding/
The crowd funding effort for Chris Roberts' Star Citizen has raked in more than eighteen million dollars so far. Of course it has. A modern space combat sim from the creator of Wing Commander couldn't be more popular if it featured zombies and randomly generated blocks covered in horrible pixel textures.
Now the Star Citizen team has announced a new stretch goal, promising to add first person on-foot combat if they hit the $20 million mark. Why end there? The game is on track to rake in significantly more money, so why not add more stretch goals to match the potential funding?
$22 Million
There are now over 1,000 square miles of additional empty space.
$25 Million
Every craft in the game now has a startup sequence that involves the pilot turning a key and muttering "come on you stupid son of a..." as the ship coughs out a stubborn car engine noise.
$32 Million
Each alien race will now have an actual distinct design to set it apart from other species. No more human models wearing sunglasses imprinted with the words "Cool Alien".
$40 Million
There is no longer a fog that obscures everything further than 50 feet from the cockpit ala Turok Dinosaur Hunter. This fog has been replaced by a luxurious satin curtain.
$60 Million
After an engagement with enemy forces, you will be brought to a fascinating mini game. It's basically the part from those Fight Night games where you control a hand as it rubs the open wounds on your gross potato face.
$100 Million
A vastly more detailed universe! We have populated space with over 80 journals. Learn the fate of an explorer who at first seems naive and flippant about a potential danger, then grows increasingly concerned about his predicament over time! Taking a page from Skyrim, we have also added hundreds of caves, each populated by a handful of spaceships to shoot.
$400 Million
The game's introductory logo movies have been replaced with the Wing Commander film in its entirety.
$600 Million
The magic system will be reworked, going from a fun extra to a rich feature that serves as a core pillar of the gameplay experience. We're talking about ice magic, blood magic, fire magic, charm spells, AOEs, heals, you name it.
$800 Million
Every cockpit seat now features a lever which, when activated, allows the pilot to recline.
$1 Billion
Fully realized third person cover shooting. Just bring your ship close to a space crate and hit A, or press the spacebar if you insist on using a keyboard. The view will pull back, enabling you to either blindfire or pop out to deliver a quick aimed shot. If the screen turns red and you hear a heartbeat sound, hide until you're healed!
$5 Billion
Space stations and enemy ships are no longer 2D sprites, but textured models. You know, like in the original Star Fox.
$8 Billion
Did somebody say Chewbaccas???
$12 Billion
In addition to going in forward and reverse as well as rotating up and down, all spacecraft can now turn to the left or right.
$17 Billion
More realistic sound design. If you stick your unprotected head out of your ship's cockpit and into the vacuum of space, you won't hear a thing. Unless there's an explosion. Or a laser zapping nearby. Or the scream of an engine.
$20 Billion
All players start the game with unlimited money, all ships unlocked, all content completed, and all enemies killed.
$20 Billion and a signed copy of Spawn #1
We're scrapping everything and turning this sucker into a MOBA. All backers will get a hand-written note thanking them for the money and for understanding our decision.
The crowd funding effort for Chris Roberts' Star Citizen has raked in more than eighteen million dollars so far. Of course it has. A modern space combat sim from the creator of Wing Commander couldn't be more popular if it featured zombies and randomly generated blocks covered in horrible pixel textures.
Now the Star Citizen team has announced a new stretch goal, promising to add first person on-foot combat if they hit the $20 million mark. Why end there? The game is on track to rake in significantly more money, so why not add more stretch goals to match the potential funding?
$22 Million
There are now over 1,000 square miles of additional empty space.
$25 Million
Every craft in the game now has a startup sequence that involves the pilot turning a key and muttering "come on you stupid son of a..." as the ship coughs out a stubborn car engine noise.
$32 Million
Each alien race will now have an actual distinct design to set it apart from other species. No more human models wearing sunglasses imprinted with the words "Cool Alien".
$40 Million
There is no longer a fog that obscures everything further than 50 feet from the cockpit ala Turok Dinosaur Hunter. This fog has been replaced by a luxurious satin curtain.
$60 Million
After an engagement with enemy forces, you will be brought to a fascinating mini game. It's basically the part from those Fight Night games where you control a hand as it rubs the open wounds on your gross potato face.
$100 Million
A vastly more detailed universe! We have populated space with over 80 journals. Learn the fate of an explorer who at first seems naive and flippant about a potential danger, then grows increasingly concerned about his predicament over time! Taking a page from Skyrim, we have also added hundreds of caves, each populated by a handful of spaceships to shoot.
$400 Million
The game's introductory logo movies have been replaced with the Wing Commander film in its entirety.
$600 Million
The magic system will be reworked, going from a fun extra to a rich feature that serves as a core pillar of the gameplay experience. We're talking about ice magic, blood magic, fire magic, charm spells, AOEs, heals, you name it.
$800 Million
Every cockpit seat now features a lever which, when activated, allows the pilot to recline.
$1 Billion
Fully realized third person cover shooting. Just bring your ship close to a space crate and hit A, or press the spacebar if you insist on using a keyboard. The view will pull back, enabling you to either blindfire or pop out to deliver a quick aimed shot. If the screen turns red and you hear a heartbeat sound, hide until you're healed!
$5 Billion
Space stations and enemy ships are no longer 2D sprites, but textured models. You know, like in the original Star Fox.
$8 Billion
Did somebody say Chewbaccas???
$12 Billion
In addition to going in forward and reverse as well as rotating up and down, all spacecraft can now turn to the left or right.
$17 Billion
More realistic sound design. If you stick your unprotected head out of your ship's cockpit and into the vacuum of space, you won't hear a thing. Unless there's an explosion. Or a laser zapping nearby. Or the scream of an engine.
$20 Billion
All players start the game with unlimited money, all ships unlocked, all content completed, and all enemies killed.
$20 Billion and a signed copy of Spawn #1
We're scrapping everything and turning this sucker into a MOBA. All backers will get a hand-written note thanking them for the money and for understanding our decision.
Can we get a stretch goal to reduce the amount of features to just a solid single-player game? Say, at $30 miillion? If not, how about just the cutting of superflous features?
Wow, Something Awful wrote something genuinely funny? It's been years. Well, a few of those lines are worth blowing some air out my nostrils, anyway. Most of it's trying way too hard.
A big part of that is the stretch goal model that's been incorporated into crowdfunding, though, don't you think?
A big part of that is the stretch goal model that's been incorporated into crowdfunding, though, don't you think?
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Not really, it's part of his specific model. A lot of the kickstarters chose features that were nearly integral to the format already (strongholds) or just had "we expand on this already existing feature or add this faction." Chris' is the only one off the top of my head that has something on the level of "this game is now an FPS as well".
God, I hope this game'll be good.
Interesting choice of "nearly integral" to describe strongholds. I'd argue that boarding actions are equally so in the context of what are essentially naval vessels in vacuum. Said boarding actions were an early original stretch goal. This newer stretch goal is, as I've opined, really nothing more than farming out some level-building that'll use the exact same mechanics that were already going to exist to support boarding—and it's sensible to include an "arena" of sorts, giving players a venue to practice their skills outside of boarding actions, which can't be had quickly or on demand by any means.
What you're really doing in the quoted text is spinning the exact same situation two different ways for each game. For all you or I know (if you have some facts or figures that I don't, please share), it'll take the exact same proportion of CIG's resources to implement functional FPS mechanics, some gear, and a few level designs as the proportion of its resources Obsidian will need to integrate its very elaborate plan for the stronghold.
You've made an apples-to-apples comparison and called one of them an orange, essentially. I think it's because you believe FPS mechanics and physics are totally, completely different and that including them will be like trying to create two complete games as a single game, but I disagree. SC need be no more "an FPS too" than Fallout New Vegas was "Hoyle Gambling 6 too."
I guess now you think I love things that are shittily tacked-on, right? Ugh. Nothing could be further from the truth, I just don't think that that's what this is.
If it is, you'll never get out of my trousers to actually enjoy playing it.
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Strongholds = big part of the kind of RPGs they're in. FPS mechanics = not a big part of the Wing Commander series. Case closed.
I've never said this game will be a horrific piece of shit. I've said that a bunch of stuff is extremely worrisome, and that you are way too optimistic given the circumstances.
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