Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Decline Sawyer, Pillars and the balance meme - some thoughts

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,167
Location
Eastern block
1) Contrary to the popular meme, there really was no build balance in the original. Godlike Druids/Chanters/Priests/Ciphers and Orlan Fighters are God-tier compared to Dwarf Rogues or Elf Monks (wild example) or whatever else. In fact, it was a very unbalanced and fun game purely from a perspective of class and race balance. You can do some pretty crazy stuff with a solo Fire Priest or a party of Moon Barbarians. The whole balance thing was not about intra-class balance, but more about capping the player via meager stat growth, denying EXP, etc.

2) Sawyer's sin was not so much striving for perfect balance as everybody likes to say, but the desire to please everybody and streamline gameplay. Most notably this was done via per-encounter abilities and Endurance, which were supposed to ensure "smooth" gameplay; and Fargo did the same thing with Effort in Tides of Numenera, butchering character development in the process.

Conclusion: the meme should be about accessibility rather than balance.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
balanced.jpg
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,167
Location
Eastern block
Balance in a singleplayer game is asinine and stupid.

Yup and pursuing it is pretty pointless. Like, I'm not saying a game should be obscenely imbalanced... but half the fun comes from some things being more powerful than others and finding these things. Fun is *way* more important than striving for perfect or near-perfect balance.

In any case, I dunno how bad Sawyer wanted class and race balance but it obviously didn't work out (and thank God it didn't).
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
but half the fun comes from some things being more powerful than others and finding these things.

For me, it's about 90% of the fun. However, Swordflight showed me that strict balance of itemization and power-growth can still be enjoyable and rewarding. I didn't know that was possible, pre-Swordflight.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom