Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity, by Decado

[Klarion]

How much did Obshitian pay you to write this review?

 

[Shevek]

It seems to me that alot of folks (not all, but many critics of the review) are not content with a review that basically states that nitpicking a game a 1000 different ways isnt definative proof that it sucks. To many folks, its a good game. And, no, all those folks arent a bunch of casuals who play the game between Angry Bird sessions. Obsidian created a rpg system basically from scratch and they were willing to try some new shit rather than just kicking the can down the road. Some shit worked. Some shit didnt. If you are pissed because the game doesnt require you to reload every time you get turned to stone or some bear scores a crit and gibs your level 2 rogue, well, fine. If you are pissed that the game isnt a loot fest where you go from wielding your one super magic supa powah weapon to the next, ok. But not every gamer needs a roleplaying session to be a never ending battle against the almighty RNG or a god damn Monty Hall fest were your skip from loot chest to loot chest on your never ending goal to be the most pimped out adventuring playa playa in the fantasy hood.

While Decado could have offered bulletted points a bit better (I would have highlighted the strength of the character development system a bit more and offered more examples of the strength of the writing - Durance is good but there is more to enjoy in Pillars beyond him). That being said, a review is not a fucking treatise. The simple statement that he is enjoying a game despite a list of stated flaws (which he enumerates) is of value. He is, essentially, stating "if this nitpicky BS doesn't bother you, buy this game."

 

[Bubbles]

I don't give a flying fuck if anyone agrees, really. Arguing the merits of your work in order to change people's minds is tacky and amateurish in the extreme.

Wow, you must really hate academics.

 

[Decado]

In the contex of reviews, man. Not all work. Sometimes arguing over the merits of your work is your job. But in the case of art (here loosely defined!) then no, doing so is lame.

 

[Bubbles]

Bubbles I don't subscribe to the absolutist version of that theory, but I certainly think it can be healthy sometimes to focus on the text as its own thing. Especially when you see all the people in this thread that try to pretend they know conclusively what Decado's mental state was and how that led to an utterly invalid and fantasy world account of the game.

I doubt that most of the people itt know enough about Decado to carry any sort of preconceptions into their first reading of his review. The idea that his mental state might be questionable has also been argued on the basis of the review text, which is not inherently illegitimate. If you wish, you can rephrase the comments as "The points made by the character 'Decado' are generally weak and unsubstantiated; I get the impression that he is vehemently defending a bad purchase decision. Perhaps he can be taken to represent the average gamer."

 

[Tigranes]

It's not illegitimate to guess about the author based on the text, but specifically it seems a pretty stupid guess to me. By that standard, half the people saying it could themselves be indicted on the same count - that they hate the game so much they need to find whatever explanation about the mental failure of those who like it.

Essentially, it's just as non-substantial and trivial as the review itself is.

 

[Jarpie]

Decado sounds quite that people are disagreeing with him, at least this thread is quality entertainment.

 

[Average Manatee]

Most of the review isn't horrible. It does sugar coat a lot of things, but whether that's because Decado has poor(/different) taste in games or whether its Doritos talking, who knows.

The summary is pure crap though. A conclusion must follow from the facts and reasoning expressed beforehand. To dismiss most of the previous criticisms offhand as minor nitpicking is preposterous. If they were mere irrelevant quibbles then they shouldn't have been worth mentioning in the first place. If they weren't, then it should be explained why they don't significantly harm the final product. Was 3/4ths of the review just meaningless length padding, useless fluff you added in side track us before coming to the conclusion of "game is great, loved it"?

Furthermore, stating that PoE is as good or better than all of the original IE games is a joke within the context of the review. Completely unjustified. Consider that you compared PoE negatively to BG2 a total of three times throughout the review and only compared it positively once (and there are about 5 paragraphs of the former, 1 of the latter). How does this make any sense? If you like PoE better than BG2, state why. If you like PoE better than PS:T, state why. If you aren't going to state why, don't throw in a statement about PoE being better after a review that stated several reasons why it is worse than several IE games. As it is it feels like that comment was simply a troll to mirror Roxor's "worse than Dungeon Siege and Gothic 4" and try to get your own 100 page thread.

Seriously, delete the whole summary and the thing reads way better.

 

[Mustawd]

Avg ManT is making good points. And I also think it goes back to Decado's style. Let's be honest, 99% of reviews of anything are similar to what Decado wrote; including Ebert (and I was a big fan up until the end). I remember reading Bubbles review of some game I can no longer remember and thinking, "holy shit. That is some A quality analysis, justification, examples, detail, etc. right there".

But that's never the norm. If anything you get a few examples of good and bad. However, at the end of the day the reviews are very feely touchy...as in "would I buy it? Do I like it?" Because most audiences participate in tons of confirmation bias (aka looking for people who share their taste). So in that respect a less detailed review is ok. Because said people agree with Decado's taste most of the time...so his review must be legit.

And to be honest, that's how I would approach Ebert's reviews. "I like Ebert's taste....he says ABC movie sucks...I'm not gonna watch ABC movie right now until I have nothing else to do". There's nothing wrong with that. Unless you're writing a review for the Codex. Where debate is welcome as much as butthurt.

So I think it's just a case of "It's not you , it's me"ism. And Decado was right when he said his style just didn't fit our expectations.

Fake EDIT: Also, as much as Roxor's review was a half crazy rant, he at least got into some pretty detailed and granular analysis of the game.

 

[Turok]

Awesome review.

 

[DeepOcean]

It seems to me that alot of folks (not all, but many critics of the review) are not content with a review that basically states that nitpicking a game a 1000 different ways isnt definative proof that it sucks. "

If you minimize any criticism of a game to a nitpick then there is no reason for reviews at all and just giving 10/10 to every single game out there would be enough.

 

[Western]

In the contex of reviews, man. Not all work. Sometimes arguing over the merits of your work is your job. But in the case of art (here loosely defined!) then no, doing so is lame.

Modern hipster art lover detected... unleash the Lyric Suite.

 

[Shevek]

It seems to me that alot of folks (not all, but many critics of the review) are not content with a review that basically states that nitpicking a game a 1000 different ways isnt definative proof that it sucks. "

If you minimize any criticism of a game to a nitpick then there is no reason for reviews at all and just giving 10/10 to every single game out there would be enough.

And if every nitpick is a god damn fatal flaw then everything is a 1/10. The problem is that critics are...
1. ...looking at the IE game series as some kind of monolithic single product and holding PoE against a set of games developed over time by multiple teams. "My gawd, PoE does not have the encounter design of the second half of BG2, the AI of IWD:HoW and the storytelling of PST. Wow, it must be shit."
2. ...demanding that PoE be tailored to their specific playstyle or sensibilities. "Wtf, I cant micro my guys into moving around however I wish? I cannot be obliterated at any given moment by a random roll of the die? Wtf is this? I demand this very specific set of experiences or this game is total garbage!"
3. ...critiquing the plot for having one or two oddball quest choices or not having very specific responses in addition to the other half doze meaningful choices to choose from. "What, those 12 quests were great but this one has me defending whores from stupid bandits, the quest system is entirely shit. Also, wtf, I cant use some philosophical retort in this convo. Fuck, so dumb."
I dunno, all this bullshit seems like nitpicking to me.

 

[Western]

I don't think a game where the Court Sequence and stronghold fall short of NWN2, story and characters fall short of KOTOR 2 and MoTB, combat falls short of BG2 and IWD2 can objectively be considered great (games and this review don't exist in a vacuum, we have things to compare them to and this is the poorest review in recent memory next to Konjads).

Overall as a sum of its parts I enjoyed the game, but it fell short of expectations since it didn't even match some of Obsidians own previous work.

Also some bugs at release were more than minor annoyances, I got hit with 3 bugs, Temple of Wael turned hostile voiding a quest, endless paths could not be completed due to a door not opening, and a character speed bug where after a hostile slow effect, speed would be randomly redistributed back to the party.

 

[Shevek]

Lots of games had court sequences which fell short of NWN2 (can you think of one that is better?), the VAST MAJORITY of rpgs had story and characters that fell short of MotB (I disagree PoE falls short of NWN2 OC here, saying so is laughable) and combat falling short of BG2 is dependent on how much you fucking love those mage battles.

Personally, this is what I would do to all the paper, rock, scissor spell protection stripping of BG2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtiaYVyF_18

 

[Western]

It doesn't make much sense to duplicate elements of your own work and not bring it up to the same standard, they played it safe but couldn't match their own standards, they have nobody to blame but themselves, this is how people judge rewritten work... against the original.

 

[Eyestabber]

Court Sequence and stronghold fall short of NWN2

I KNEW this day would come. Thank you, PoE, for showing Kodex that NWN 2 is not that bad :D :D :D :D

 

[Shevek]

It doesn't make much sense to duplicate elements of your own work and not bring it up to the same standard, they played it safe but couldn't match their own standards, they have nobody to blame but themselves, this is how people judge rewritten work... against the original.

That right there is the problem with PoE critics. You assume that one game can somehow magically hit all the high notes that a developer has hit in all separate instances of a variety of works. Thats so fucking dumb its both funny and kinda sad too.

 

[Western]

It doesn't make much sense to duplicate elements of your own work and not bring it up to the same standard, they played it safe but couldn't match their own standards, they have nobody to blame but themselves, this is how people judge rewritten work... against the original.

That right there is the problem with PoE critics. You assume that one game can somehow magically hit all the high notes that a developer has hit in all separate instances of a variety of works. Thats so fucking dumb its both funny and kinda sad too.

Of course, you play the game and see a part where the first thing you think is 'I've seen this done before but better by Obsidian themselves', in a game marketed on nostalgia... I understand why you think this is such an unfair position to take.

Am I too hung up on these nitpicks and overlooking the great itemisation? What's so compelling about POE that it deserves great praise?

 

[Eyestabber]

What's so compelling about POE that it deserves great praise?

Durance, Grieving Mother and Raedric Hold. Which accounts for like 5% of the game, yet some people seem really invested into pretending that these high notes represent the entire PoE experience.

 

[Bubbles]

Grieving Mother is not all that great either.

 

[Western]

Court Sequence and stronghold fall short of NWN2

I KNEW this day would come. Thank you, PoE, for showing Kodex that NWN 2 is not that bad :D :D :D :D

Hell, NWN2 isn't that bad in comparison (atleast now, camera was a lot shittier at release), I'd say it's only slightly worse mostly due to the engine/3D.

What's so compelling about POE that it deserves great praise?

Durance, Grieving Mother and Raedric Hold. Which accounts for like 5% of the game, yet some people seem really invested into pretending that these high notes represent the entire PoE experience.

Sad part is those characters were gutted and rewritten from Avellone's original vision, yet they were still some of the best things in the game.

 

[Shevek]

-Absolutely fantastic character development system with a set of incredible diverse character classes married to a strong ability/talent/stat system
-Fantastic weapon system that has legitimately varied weapon types
-A powerful crafting system that allows you to keep items relevant as you increase in level
-A well realized world that feels both familiar and unique - that manages to hearken back to both high and dark fantasy.
-Strong overall writing with a solid plot
-A well realized visual style which at once seems classic and yet up to modern sensibilities
-An interesting world structure which marries some of the exploration of BG1 with the hub based structure of BG2
-Martial classes which do more than auto attack
-Mostly well written quests with significant player choice
-The ability to define the player character across and additional axis (including attitude/disposition and factions)
-Ending slideshow (love these)


The list goes on. The game has its flaws but it does many things well.

 

[Eyestabber]

Grieving Mother is not all that great either.

Because her dungeon thing got turned into shallow text adventure. She is good because she stands out. Aloth is the typical Bioware beta-male, Pallegina is generic as fuck, Sagani is a Strong Wymin™ and so on. Grieving mother is actually pretty original and interesting, though her story gets a bit boring after a while.

 

[Stompa]

-A well realized world that feels both familiar and unique - that manages to hearken back to both high and dark fantasy.
-Strong overall writing with a solid plot
-Mostly well written quests with significant player choice

I never thought PoE can cause brain damage, yet here you are. Solid plot? Get outta town, the whole thing has more holes than the man with many cheeses. Strong writing is only evident in Durance and GM's stories, everywhere else it's average to bad. Oh, and "mostly" well-written quests, yeah, right, sure, does one in five count as mostly? I'm not even saying they're badly written, though some certainly are, but they certainly don't reach "well-written" due to their overall blandness. Well-realised world is especailly funny since it's so painfully not-DnD with guns it hurts and no silly pseudowords can save it.

People wouldn't be deriding Obsidian so hard if their trademark good writing was evident in PoE. For fuck's sake, there are even Alpha Protocol fans in here and that game had way more problems than Pillars.