Risen 3: Titan Lords

[Name]

complete freedom: go where you want from the beginning
quests to reach locked/blocked areas

Huh?

Wow unsatisfiable set.

 

[nomask7]

complete freedom: go where you want from the beginning
quests to reach locked/blocked areas

Huh?

You can go wherever you want to go.

But sometimes, a locked door, a guard or a big monster will block your way and you have to do something about it:

• bribe the guard
• kill the guard/monster
  
• lure a monster to the guard for distraction and sneak through
  
• doing a quest for the guard to get entrance
• find a key
• lockpick the door
• find a hidden route around the blocked path

-> intelligent CRPG map design.

If you can gain entrance at any character level, it doesn't really seem to affect anything (so how is it "intelligent map design"?), and if you can't gain entrance at any level, then obviously there's no complete freedom to go everywhere.

If you want intelligent map design, travelling from place to place has to be interesting or challenging in itself, not because there's some locked door or monster there you have to kill. Travelling to the castle and entering it in Night of the Raven is a perfect example of interesting travel. Finding a locked door and having to complete a fucking quest isn't, really.

 

[Aeschylus]

• swimming and climbing is back

Except that climbing is just as shitty as it is in Risen 2, because you can only climb at certain ledges. There will just be MORE of them, because PB is too stupid to realize that people want FREE climbing, because they like to explore freely, find shortcuts and go ways that weren't obviously intended by the developer and not, because people just love to see the climbing animation so damn much.

No PB game has ever had 'free' climbing. All the way from Gothic 1 you could only ever climb at very specific and obvious ledges.

 

[Revenant]

No PB game has ever had 'free' climbing. All the way from Gothic 1 you could only ever climb at very specific and obvious ledges.

This is plain incorrect. Gothic 1/2 and probably Risen 1 (I don't remember) had free climbing in the sense that the hero could climb upon any flat surface within his reach, as opposed to contextual climbing in Risen 2, i.e. climbing only in level designer assigned spots.

 

[Aeschylus]

^ Climbing was very contextual in Gothic, it was just hidden better, and was a lot more frequent than in the Risen games. Climbable cliffs in Gothic are in obvious shapes, and it's all a part of the map design. The map itself was just a lot more complex and open.

 

[Revenant]

You obviously don't understand what the term "contextual climbing" means.

 

[Aeschylus]

I know, you are talking about the little icon that pops up in Risen 2 to let you know you can climb. Let me explain what I mean by better hidden... it's true in Gothic 1 + 2 you can climb up on any level surface you can reach with a jump, in that sense it is not 'contextual', but in reality the number of actual places where you can climb out in the wilderness is extremely limited, and are all designed to be that way. It was much better back then than it was in Risen 2 because you weren't handheld through exploration with button popups, but neither could you freely scale most walls/surfaces. Each instance where you could climb was specifically designed to be that way, so it is not really 'free'. This wasn't a bad thing, as it allowed for tighter map design and the purposeful inclusion of multiple routes, but neither was it a free-form thing like the ability to levitate in Morrowind. So perhaps it would have been better to say that climbing in PB games has always been controlled, if not completely contextual.

 

[Revenant]

You apparently have never gotten into the city of Khorinis by scaling the wall

 

[harhar!]

I know, you are talking about the little icon that pops up in Risen 2 to let you know you can climb. Let me explain what I mean by better hidden... it's true in Gothic 1 + 2 you can climb up on any level surface you can reach with a jump, in that sense it is not 'contextual', but in reality the number of actual places where you can climb out in the wilderness is extremely limited, and are all designed to be that way. It was much better back then than it was in Risen 2 because you weren't handheld through exploration with button popups, but neither could you freely scale most walls/surfaces. Each instance where you could climb was specifically designed to be that way, so it is not really 'free'. This wasn't a bad thing, as it allowed for tighter map design and the purposeful inclusion of multiple routes, but neither was it a free-form thing like the ability to levitate in Morrowind. So perhaps it would have been better to say that climbing in PB games has always been controlled, if not completely contextual.

I'm certain that there are some part where it wasn't directly intended that you could climb there. Examples: Khorinis wall, street lights -> jump on Bospers house -> jump on Matteos house -> drop down to the chests, climbing to Bengar at Erols Hut,...
Besides it's much nice to climb a somewhat natural mountain formation even if it was intended, compared to a "JUMP HERE LEDGE". Also you don't have the immersion breaker that you can't jump on a fucking fence or building that you want to jump on for whatever reason (e.g. shorter way) and the hero makes a stupid little bunny hop instead.

 

[Metro]

I know, you are talking about the little icon that pops up in Risen 2 to let you know you can climb. Let me explain what I mean by better hidden... it's true in Gothic 1 + 2 you can climb up on any level surface you can reach with a jump, in that sense it is not 'contextual', but in reality the number of actual places where you can climb out in the wilderness is extremely limited, and are all designed to be that way. It was much better back then than it was in Risen 2 because you weren't handheld through exploration with button popups, but neither could you freely scale most walls/surfaces. Each instance where you could climb was specifically designed to be that way, so it is not really 'free'. This wasn't a bad thing, as it allowed for tighter map design and the purposeful inclusion of multiple routes, but neither was it a free-form thing like the ability to levitate in Morrowind. So perhaps it would have been better to say that climbing in PB games has always been controlled, if not completely contextual.

That's a fair enough point but I don't see why it matters as better design is better design. Contextual climbing is just developer laziness as is removing climbing/jumping altogether which is what a lot of modern arpgs do.

 

[harhar!]

Some interviews from the RPC: Link

What people liked:
- the graphic (they said this like 20 times in the video)
- swimming
- free world (questing and such)
- fighting system reminds of the Witcher
- monsters from Gothic (Scavenger)
- noob friendly (yay?)

What people didn't like:
- fighting system stayed like Gothic 1/2 and Risen, is worse than Dark Souls (weird point imo as the R3 system looked a lot more action focused than those other systems)
- same controls and interface from Risen 2
- some invisible walls
- dodging just in one direction or something...
- monsters too hard
- you still get damaged if you parry

What I get from the video: People liked the graphics and everyone has a different opinion about what the fighting system is like.

 

[Perkel]

So... fuck people i guess.

 

[HiddenX]

that was said, too:

+ + +
Great atmosphere
Risen1, Gothic is back
hard to beat monsters
great landscape, gfx
no more pirates
combat a bit like the Witcher
great game
swimming is back
free world - nonlinear
magic is back
new hero
factions
shadows as enemies
interesting and has potential
better faces and character models
hmmm - it's the same old Gothic game - people like it somehow
setting top notch
it's fun but not easy
good for RPG beginners, too
Gothic monster back
you can play good or evil
great gfx
combat system exciting
non standard cRPG
classic cRPG like Gothic
good story
nostalgic Gothic feelings coming back

- - -
not much critisizing

 

[Perkel]

Sounds better now, for a second i thought people are not worth games they play

 

[HiddenX]

yep - sounds really good so far.
Piranha is playing safe and recreates the only game they can and most people love:
Gothic (including some Witcher combat moves)

 

[undecaf]

They'd do better without Witcher in it.

 

[Perkel]

Frankly after decades of shitty combat they should do something with it. I wouldn't mind more dark souls like combat. Imo first and second gothic combat was very dark soul-esque with defence and positioning, different attacks etc.

 

[Metro]

Witcher combat was pretty mediocre. Witcher 2 combat was fucking horrible. Neither are similar G1/G2 combat.

 

[HiddenX]

Gothic 2 blocking is in, breakin' a block is in, Witcher evading move is in.

 

[Crooked Bee]

As long as the world is open and non-level scaled and there's a lot of small nooks and secrets to discover, I'll be happy even if the combat is just okay. It's the "noob friendly" part that worries me a little.

 

[Metro]

As long as the world is open and non-level scaled and there's a lot of small nooks and secrets to discover, I'll be happy even if the combat is just okay.

Those are my standards for women, too.

 

[HiddenX]

As long as the world is open and non-level scaled and there's a lot of small nooks and secrets to discover, I'll be happy even if the combat is just okay. It's the "noob friendly" part that worries me a little.

I think the woman meant it in this way "It's not too hard to get into the game and do stuff". Atmospheric setting from the very beginning.
Because on the other hand: Some other testers went too far into the woods and had a hard time to survive.

 

[HiddenX]

Slightly more negative sound these impressions from Eldred at WoR:

I played Risen 3 at the RPC last week and posted a comment on the german forum.

From my point of view I did not see much that was not already known. The demo was set on the island of Taranis of which we saw plenty of screenshots already. From combat I only saw melee and magic as the start character was not equipped with any long range weapon, though I heard that one could find a musket somewhere. Muskets by so far are the only long range weapons that could be seen, as also the keepers (or are they simply called guards in english?) only carry muskets and no bows/crossbows.
During exploration you have basically the same controls and the same camera as in Risen 2. I will go into more detail for a few points.

The world
Taranis looks very very nice and in the short time I played on the island I had the impression that you have a lot to explore and to find.
But and this is a big but, Taranis is more like a bigger version of Antigua than an open world. You have a dense system of paths (much more and denser than on Antigua) but you cannot go far of these paths. No open forest or open fields. The only really open area is the sea.
Also besides some necessary buildings not much infrastructure can be found. There are a few huts, but I did not find for instance a farm, which should be really there otherwise the story does not work. The mage guild is as big as the abbey in Gothic 2 and thus has a good size. It includes a Gnom encampment. The harbour consists basically of one bigger building and a big but static ship (not moving with the waves).
So it is a beatiful world but alike the world in Risen 2 it feels more like a stage setting than a living world.

Swimming
You can swim freely around until you reach a certain zone from which you are teleported a few meters backwards without a black screen. Thus, if you do not have a fix point in view you do not really see that you are teleported and get the impression you can swim forever. To be fair it seems that you can swim out rather far without reaching this invisible barrier.
All in all swimming works fine for me, though it appeard basically that you can reach island now by swimming that where reachable in Risen 2 by walking through the water. There is at least one secret entrance that can be used with swimming.

Combat
The melee combat system is very similar to the Risen 2 system with the addition of a strong blow, which is similar to the system in Arcania. The strong blow can break your block. Instant heal with a healing potion is still there.
If you click at the right moment you can concatenate blows. The right moment is indicated by a red glow around the hand of the player character (like the green glow in Arcania).
Thus, you have to do more during combat than only bashing the left mouse button. Actually you have to click the right mouse button most of the time which can be very effective against most enemies for some reason.
Otherwise together with the fast rolling to avoid enemy blows the combat plays somewhat like a faster version of the combat in Arcania but more indirect.
A problem is if you click on an opponent, even if it is several meters away, cour character will run to this enemy and strike. Then you rolll to the left or right and attack the next opponent. The same goes for the opponents. I ran by a sleeping scavenger during night and it immediatly woke up and jumped at me even though I already was away several meters. If you are struck like this your character will be kicked, which feels a bit like being catapulted away from the opponent and will cause a short stun as you are locked in an animation. This somewhat feels like the Batman Arkham Asylum combat system.
Also you still have random finishing moves which now are real animations and not only slow motion scences. They look very brutal like in Dragon Age but without blood.
Some NPC that were doing something could not be attacked, as your blows simply passed through them. Other neutral or friendly NPCs could be attacked, but you can only knock them unconscious. That is rather immersion-breaking if you had a brutal finishing move, where your character drives a sword through the NPC's chest and then he is only unconscious. But you can plunder him. After he wakes up again he will be angry at you, though I do not know for how long or how this can be changed at all. He was not firendly again as fast as in Risen 2.
All in all the melee combat seems to be a bit better than the system in Risen 2.

Magic
Magic was useable in form of several scrolls in the inventory. Including a fire rain which is a graphically enhanced version of the fire rain in Gothic. It looks really nice, though I am not sure how well this spell works together with the crystal magic idea which is the major factor behind all what the mges do on Taranis, thus it will be very much emphazised in the story.

Opponents
There were scavengers, dragon snappers (which are the beasts on the cover art), water saurians (which look like the Zelda: Link to the past Zora), spiders, aligators, a rhino, and basically all of Mara's sea beasts from Risen 2 (only the sunken was missing). Why there are Maras beast everywhere on the shores despite seeing them die in the end of Risen 2 when Mara died, was not explained.

Daily Routins
NPCs are practising magic, dagger throwing, forging, barrel carrying (A Gnom carrying a very small barrel, that did not resemble anything that lay where he is taking these from or where he is placing it, which is strange, the Outcast system where real objects are moved from 1999 is still much better), inventory recording (like in Risen 2), using a spy-glass and patrolling. Though many NPCs are only standing around if they are important for a quest and most NPCs seem to be like that. I tried sleeping to different day and night times but even NPCs following a routine like the Gnom did not go to sleep but was still carrying barrels. Others though did go to sleep. All in all this routines did not convince me. The seem to be made in the same mood as the ones in Risen 2.

Reactions of NPC
Generally only guards throw you out of a room you are not supposed to be in or attack if you steal something. From a woman in a one room building to the right of the entrance to the mage guild I did not get any reaction even though a took everything in the room and the guards was standing right around the corner.

Story
There were a lot of explanations for what the mages do and I appreciated that very much. Though it seems there is not much more behind the surface. There are several books you can find and read in the inventory. They are about as long as the stories in the Gothic ingame books.

 

[Crooked Bee]

But and this is a big but, Taranis is more like a bigger version of Antigua than an open world. You have a dense system of paths (much more and denser than on Antigua) but you cannot go far of these paths. No open forest or open fields. The only really open area is the sea.

 

[HiddenX]

It's the starting island, maybe the others are bigger? - I don't know.