Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Prime Junta]

While a nice idea in theory, I have several issues with that:
1) LaCroix and everyone at the trial could see that the player commited Diablerie and would be extremely suspicious.
2) This would not explain the mummy sitting besides Jack in the end as the antediluvian would have been destroyed.
3) From what Johansen explains Messerach seems to have only been a ghould of the real vampire queen Lamastu.
4) For the Prequel we would need to introduce a new main character which nobody has ever heard of before.

Hmm yeah, true. It doesn't really work with the events in the game, although mechanically I think the explanation is least inconsistent with canonical lore.

I wonder if it'd be possible to mask the dark veins of diablerie somehow? Or if they would show up at all if the younger blood has already been overcome?

 

[Delterius]

Brujah can not explain the unknowability of Bloodlines' real plot.

 

[makiavelli747]

Brujah can not explain the unknowability of Bloodlines' real plot.

of course, but you don't need that explanation - you have your own phantasies instead, where everything is a lot more interesting and even Deb is Nosferatu vampire
isn't it fascinating?

 

[Delterius]

Deb is obviously Toreador silly malkiavian.

 

[laclongquan]

You know what's fun?

Watching all these gamers try to dance around the elephant in the middle of the room:

Player character is a puppet in the hands of several wire pullers. Not one, several. And the impossible things PC has done is due to preparations from those puppetmasters, not all known to each other.

It would explain so many things. All, even. but no, that fragile ego of theirs just cant take it.

 

[makiavelli747]

Deb is obviously Toreador silly malkiavian.

good point, kid

 

[laclongquan]

1. The genesis. Caine or someone named Caine sire the PC. This Sire's clan is not known, which explain why PC can be one of several clans. The excuted sire is just another puppet, manipulated into death to serve purpose. One wonder about the opening scene: If Nine doesnt intervene, the Sabbat squad will crash the party earlier, and Jack will jump in. In that case PC would fall into Anarch company earlier than expected.

2. The speedy power growth. Also explained by the above. PC get tutored unknowingly into raising own powers. How? The bloodbank is one source. The books gathered from scattering is another. Dont tell me you think you can raise your knowledge and power by just reading some books *randomly* fallen to your hand. The mentors who get manipulated into teaching such promising fledgling, such as Nine. Oh yeah, two sessions from him and two levelups in two skills. Two occult items from Pisha is a great help, and they can be acquired by trading two items concidentally lie on our way to the objectives. Yeah? Yeah.

3. The impossible achievement.The warehouse, Beckett might have appeared earlier and keep Sabbat reinforcement company, so that a vampire can slip through kine security. The Grout mansion is Ming Xiao's meddle. The werewolves is nearly a direct intervention: Nine cant possibly survive two wolves (only one grenade), so you get transported early and take one from him. The Sheriff is another case of direct intervention: the chaos when a light turn on him make for a sneak attack nearly undetectable, otherwise why would a flying monster fall from a light?

4. Who are the puppetmaster?
- The Sire for once, and highly possible that Cabbie.
- Beckett for another, "the King"
- Ming Xiao, the "black queen". Incidentally, we dont get told about the struggle between Beckett and Ming Xiao, and maybe Grout. it might happen on the Elizabeth Dane, drag on to Grout mansion and further. Grout might be a black bishop, and Bach white.
- Jack. He's probabbly pull the strings on Anarch and some Sabbat.

5. Finally, big question: Why does Caine do that shit? And I have to say you have to ask that shit question? Among the players who spent lots of time to play, mostly in set up situations in order to amuse themselves? SHEEEESH.

 

[Lilura]

So much lorefaggetry ITT. I just play Vampire Bloodlines for its aspie-lvl meta-gaming potential; even just vanilla has been so much fun over the years!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Thoughts?

So...we are Revan? :gaider:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You know what's fun?

Watching all these gamers try to dance around the elephant in the middle of the room:

Player character is a puppet in the hands of several wire pullers. Not one, several. And the impossible things PC has done is due to preparations from those puppetmasters, not all known to each other.

It would explain so many things. All, even. but no, that fragile ego of theirs just cant take it.

Yeah, but that's like "explaining" rain by saying "it's when water falls from the sky", crossing your arms and nodding knowingly. It's not incorrect, but I hoped for a better answer. For example, how can you manipulate a baby vampire into being stronker than the local prince?

 

[laclongquan]

Like I said, increase their blood power by that local blood bank. I dont get how you guys think what PC can buy is what EVERY OTHER Vamp can buy. Point 1: if the bloodbank under her control really have elder vitae for everyone, Therese would hoard it all, if only to keep it from others like Tung. And other vamp from nearby LA would descend upon it to buy it out. Think like a vampire, why would you? Point 2: manipulate an isolated ghoul is much easier than vampires, and considering lots of old vampires got played like a drum, I dont see how that bugger is any challenge whatsoever. "Offer THIS stock of blood to THAT specific vamp", a simple command.
Point3: How the hell do they have elder vitae anyway? Early in game they got Lily, which is a thin blood. But after saving Lily, the one we sent to the bank is ghoul, and I hardly doubt Therese got resources to trap real vampire there to make blood.

 

[Raghar]

But when he drank elder vitae. Didn't he drank three times and didn't become blood bound to that elder?

 

[laclongquan]

I didnt say the sold vitae is bleed from a specific vamp did I?
Because we dont know. We have reason to be suspicious that these type of stock are sold to PC specifically to strengthen power, but we dont know exactly what go into it. Marketing (label) is not the same as production (blood content). PC think it's elder vitae but really, is it?

nitty detail might bore you

If he sell widely elder vitae, even blood with fake label as elder vitae, Therese would hear about it, every suckers in LA and HOllywood would hear about it and they would descend upon sleepy Santa Monica like a locust. Even if the elders know better, there is still a sucker born every minute and clueless fledgling, Cammi or Anarch or Sabbat, would still go. Since they dont, it mean he didnt sell it widely, fake or real. The product was offered only to specific vamp, and no one else know about it.

Also I cant believe you guys wont be more suspicious, considering earlier we sell three normal blood bags to a thin blood as unicorn blood, reputed to be able to change thin blood back to kine.
And if you mean that bloodbank clerk ghoul, what bloodbond has anything to do with a simple but very powerful hypnosis?

 

[Gay-Lussac]

I'll give you a good explanation for all this shit:

*takes tinfoil hat from laclongquan and puts it on his own head*

CRPG gaming convention dictates the player does awesome stuff and has a steady character progression.

Reverse engineer plausible explanations for players who take issue with it to kills themselves with in internet forums until Gehenna comes. The end.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

You know what's fun?

Watching all these gamers try to dance around the elephant in the middle of the room:

Player character is a puppet in the hands of several wire pullers. Not one, several. And the impossible things PC has done is due to preparations from those puppetmasters, not all known to each other.

It would explain so many things. All, even. but no, that fragile ego of theirs just cant take it.

Yeah, but that's like "explaining" rain by saying "it's when water falls from the sky", crossing your arms and nodding knowingly. It's not incorrect, but I hoped for a better answer. For example, how can you manipulate a baby vampire into being stronker than the local prince?

According to the books, low generation vampires have powers that are literally described as "plot device". They can do almost anything. If cabbie is indeed Caine, lowering your PCs generation would be a piece of cake, and in fact I think that was even an example of what a powerful vampire could do in the anniversary edition. If he's a random elder Malkavian that's less plausible (unless he sired you himself).

I do think that cabbie's auspex aura being different from absolutely everyone else's in the game is good evidence that the developers intended for him to be Caine. Malkavian PC recognizing him is also good evidence, since I don't think he gets anything else wrong at all.

 

[Jaesun]

Does Tim have a Twitter account? Just wanted to know...

 

[The Great Deceiver]

Goddamn, end this all and make Bloodlines 2 already.

 

[Gord]

According to the books, low generation vampires have powers that are literally described as "plot device". They can do almost anything. If cabbie is indeed Caine, lowering your PCs generation would be a piece of cake, and in fact I think that was even an example of what a powerful vampire could do in the anniversary edition.

However, that "lowering your generation" thing is working awfully specific.
E.g. your blood pool stays the same during the entire game. The only thing that requires a low generation besides that is resisting LaCroix' domination attempt in the end (which he succeeds with before) and that can be done through willpower as well.
You also never have any specific "jump" in power - you gain XP extremely fast, but that's it - it's still pretty smooth and linear.

 

[Grunker]

So the fae charm is incredibly bugged. Instead of giving +1 Dexterity it substitutes your latest dot of dexterity. Meaning that I had 3 Dex when I received it, I still have 3 Dex but if I drop it, I get reduced to 2 dex.

EDIT: Wait, on reload I can see the problem spawned earlier. I have a save from the cemetary with 3 dots of dex, then 1 hour later, before receiving fae charm, my dex has dropped to 2. What gives?

 

[DosBuster]

Man, after all these patches I'm surprised the release version of this game didn't just short-circuit your computer when you ran the game.

 

[Grunker]

OK, something's definetely weird here. It costs 12XP to increase Dex as if my dex was already 3, and I do so by clicking the fourth dot. If I click the third, empty dot, it removes the second dot, leaving me with a single dot.

And it's not just a case of an "invisible" dot - my Lockpicking and Sneak behave as if I have Dex 2.

This is true for all recent save games. And only true for Dexterity. All other stats behave fine.

 

[Grunker]

Oh wait, I'm a retard... Heavier armor lowers your dex

<----

 

[laclongquan]

I was aboutt to remind you of that~

Anyway

I'll give you a good explanation for all this shit:

*takes tinfoil hat from laclongquan and puts it on his own head*

CRPG gaming convention dictates the player does awesome stuff and has a steady character progression.

Reverse engineer plausible explanations for players who take issue with it to kills themselves with in internet forums until Gehenna comes. The end.

Yeah, god forbid you should offend that tender ego of gamers. God forbid!

 

[Western]

Man, after all these patches I'm surprised the release version of this game didn't just short-circuit your computer when you ran the game.

My memories hazy but I don't think that's actually far from the truth, either video cards or hard drives failing.

 

[laclongquan]

vanila version is actually unplayable without at least official patch 1.2. To fix the various bugs, majors and minors, you need either True Patch, or Unofficial Patch basic version.