Red Dead Redemption 2 - now available on PC

[Ivan]

i'm in for the insane produciton values, particularly sound design, ost, and voiceover. I fully expect the gameplay to be shit

 

[Sentinel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.
2) control scheme is overly complicated
How so?
3) Huge input latency
Also objectively wrong. There is only a deliberate delay on stationary to movement transitions and 180º turns.
4) Broken systems like the wanted system, that doesn't make any sense
Explain? Makes plenty of sense. its biggest faults is that there doesn't seem to be checks for line of sight when the witness and the player aren't in the same building, and the disguise/wanted system is not properly explained leading to a lot of confusion and misconception.

Spoiler

 

[Ezekiel]

You'll never slow to a walk while in combat. All you need to do if in a fight is press X once to change running speed from walking - > running. If you want to sprint real fast you must tap X.

Rockstar has never made a "quick and responsive" combat system. In their most lauded games like GTA 3 - VC - SA trilogy, it was clunky as fuck even back then. You couldn't even move and shoot at the same time (and it was also forced auto aim).

Like I said, I only played it for four hours. But I vaguely remember having movement sometimes default to walking during gunfights.

Max Payne 3 had a nice balance of weight and efficiency.

 

[Ezekiel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.

Except Max Payne 3 has snappier animations and lets you swap shoulders in and out of aiming and has a far quicker crouch (that I frequently use to duck under bullets*) and an effective roll. No, it's not on par with Max Payne 3.

*

 

[sullynathan]

Slow games are boring. People have to accept that fact when they want devs to make their game slow paced. Yes, this counts for rpgs too.

 

[Sentinel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.

Except Max Payne 3 has snappier animations and lets you swap shoulders in and out of aiming and has a far quicker crouch (that I frequently use to duck under bullets*) and an effective roll. No, it's not on par with Max Payne 3.

*

Nice Multiplayer gif that happens to be sped up. Of course RDR2 doesn't have the shootdodge dive, what kind of dumbass mention is that? In case you haven't noticed you don't play as Max Payne in RDR2. It has a dive you can use to dodge bullets still. You can crouch as well but it isn't very handy to do on the controller because it's bound to L3, but crouching while sprinting is fairly quick so on PC you should be able to do sprinting squats still. You can swap shoulders in RDR2 as well, and for out of combat shoulder swapping you have first person view instead, but shoulder swapping isn't needed because the camera tends to adjust fairly well to whatever you're trying to look at. Also none of what you said has anything to do with the gunplay, which is what my post was about.

And I have 0 doubts that RDR2 will see a movement overhaul with the PC release (like the MP component got one with the last patch), because there is absolutely 0 chance the game is playable on WASD with the animation weight and delay on initial movement as it is.

 

[Ezekiel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.

Except Max Payne 3 has snappier animations and lets you swap shoulders in and out of aiming and has a far quicker crouch (that I frequently use to duck under bullets*) and an effective roll. No, it's not on par with Max Payne 3.

*

Nice Multiplayer gif that happens to be sped up. Of course RDR2 doesn't have the shootdodge dive, what kind of dumbass mention is that? In case you haven't noticed you don't play as Max Payne in RDR2. It has a dive you can use to dodge bullets still. You can crouch as well but it isn't very handy to do on the controller because it's bound to L3, but crouching while sprinting is fairly quick so on PC you should be able to do sprinting squats still. You can swap shoulders in RDR2 as well, and for out of combat shoulder swapping you have first person view instead, but shoulder swapping isn't needed because the camera tends to adjust fairly well to whatever you're trying to look at. Also none of what you said has anything to do with the gunplay, which is what my post was about.

And I have 0 doubts that RDR2 will see a movement overhaul with the PC release (like the MP component got one with the last patch), because there is absolutely 0 chance the game is playable on WASD with the animation weight and delay on initial movement as it is.

Did I mention the shoot dodge? I talked about efficiency. Even Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had an agile gunslinger.

That GIF is almost the same speed as the actual video, not that that was the point. I posted it to demonstrate the crouch, which is sluggish and much less effective in combat in RDR2. Shoulder swapping is ALWAYS needed. I swap shoulders maybe fifteen times in a span of one minute, so that I can see around corners and place my target easily. To be fair, RDR2 has more open environments, but it's still very limiting having it only accessible while zooming in.

 

[Sentinel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.

Except Max Payne 3 has snappier animations and lets you swap shoulders in and out of aiming and has a far quicker crouch (that I frequently use to duck under bullets*) and an effective roll. No, it's not on par with Max Payne 3.

*

Nice Multiplayer gif that happens to be sped up. Of course RDR2 doesn't have the shootdodge dive, what kind of dumbass mention is that? In case you haven't noticed you don't play as Max Payne in RDR2. It has a dive you can use to dodge bullets still. You can crouch as well but it isn't very handy to do on the controller because it's bound to L3, but crouching while sprinting is fairly quick so on PC you should be able to do sprinting squats still. You can swap shoulders in RDR2 as well, and for out of combat shoulder swapping you have first person view instead, but shoulder swapping isn't needed because the camera tends to adjust fairly well to whatever you're trying to look at. Also none of what you said has anything to do with the gunplay, which is what my post was about.

And I have 0 doubts that RDR2 will see a movement overhaul with the PC release (like the MP component got one with the last patch), because there is absolutely 0 chance the game is playable on WASD with the animation weight and delay on initial movement as it is.

Did I mention the shoot dodge? I talked about efficiency. Even Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had an agile gunslinger.

That GIF is almost the same speed as the actual video, not that that was the point. I posted it to demonstrate the crouch, which is sluggish and much less effective in combat in RDR2. Shoulder swapping is ALWAYS needed. I swap shoulders maybe fifteen times in a span of one minute, so that I can see around corners and place my target easily. To be fair, RDR2 has more open environments, but it's still very limiting having it only accessible while zooming in.

Your problem is that you're comparing Max Payne 3 MP context to RDR2 SP context. You say the crouch is much less effective in combat in RDR2. Yeah, maybe for SP outside of stealthing, but so was crouching and rolling in MP3 SP. Playing with other people completely changes how scenarios play out. RDR2 is a cover shooter in SP, in MP it's a sprinting/diving/charging at you simulator. You don't know how useful crouching mid sprint will be in RDR2 MP, because it's simply not possible to spam it on consoles because of where it's bound to.

 

[Ezekiel]

This game is a curious one for me. It sounds great on paper, I even enjoy slower paced games generally. Moreover, the game has insane production values and people have clearly poured their hearts into the game. Then, you get to play the game and it's the most boring shit ever. BOOOOORING. Gunplay is weak, control scheme is overly complicated for a reason unknown to me, huge input latency, even picking up fucking items is slow to the point you just don't feel like picking things up anymore. There are also broken systems that don't make any sense, the wanted system being the prime example. The game is fundamentally broken on too many levels. Will mods fix it?

1) Gunplay is weak
Objectively wrong. All the components that make up gunplay are on par with Max Payne 3, the greatest third person shooter of all time, and some even surpass it. Sound, gun models, animations, interactivity and effects are all top notch.

Except Max Payne 3 has snappier animations and lets you swap shoulders in and out of aiming and has a far quicker crouch (that I frequently use to duck under bullets*) and an effective roll. No, it's not on par with Max Payne 3.

*

Nice Multiplayer gif that happens to be sped up. Of course RDR2 doesn't have the shootdodge dive, what kind of dumbass mention is that? In case you haven't noticed you don't play as Max Payne in RDR2. It has a dive you can use to dodge bullets still. You can crouch as well but it isn't very handy to do on the controller because it's bound to L3, but crouching while sprinting is fairly quick so on PC you should be able to do sprinting squats still. You can swap shoulders in RDR2 as well, and for out of combat shoulder swapping you have first person view instead, but shoulder swapping isn't needed because the camera tends to adjust fairly well to whatever you're trying to look at. Also none of what you said has anything to do with the gunplay, which is what my post was about.

And I have 0 doubts that RDR2 will see a movement overhaul with the PC release (like the MP component got one with the last patch), because there is absolutely 0 chance the game is playable on WASD with the animation weight and delay on initial movement as it is.

Did I mention the shoot dodge? I talked about efficiency. Even Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had an agile gunslinger.

That GIF is almost the same speed as the actual video, not that that was the point. I posted it to demonstrate the crouch, which is sluggish and much less effective in combat in RDR2. Shoulder swapping is ALWAYS needed. I swap shoulders maybe fifteen times in a span of one minute, so that I can see around corners and place my target easily. To be fair, RDR2 has more open environments, but it's still very limiting having it only accessible while zooming in.

Your problem is that you're comparing Max Payne 3 MP context to RDR2 SP context. You say the crouch is much less effective in combat in RDR2. Yeah, maybe for SP outside of stealthing, but so was crouching and rolling in MP3 SP. Playing with other people completely changes how scenarios play out. RDR2 is a cover shooter in SP, in MP it's a sprinting/diving/charging at you simulator. You don't know how useful crouching mid sprint will be in RDR2 MP, because it's simply not possible to spam it on consoles because of where it's bound to.

I just recorded that same kind of Max Payne 3 footage for single player. It's the same crouch and the same roll. Far more effective than Rockstar's other games, because they actually had to try and live up to a series that wasn't their own.

 

[Black]

Don't want, keep it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Max Payne 3 is underrated, combat wise. Its problem is endless cutscenes that never stop.

 

[orcinator]

That's every game in a nutshell. Go here, do this, rinse and repeat.

Actual good "quest" design is a thing, even though people act like it isn't to defend mediocre games. Also bland "quests" can be overcome with great story, dialog choices and stuff like faction systems to make it more interesting. Rockstar traditionally have succeeded based on story/presentation that makes you forget the gameplay is kind of meh. No idea if they did here, will find out soon.

What is good "quest" design in the context of a Rockstar game?

It's simple, take advantage of the sandbox nature and actually allow the player to use different game mechanics to accomplish a mission.

I haven't played RDR2 but I dropped GTA V maybe a third of the way through because the missions are just awful overly scripted slogs where you get a mission failed if you try to do anything except shoot what the game is telling you to shoot and drive where the game tells you to drive (with bonus fuck you points for Scripted Chase Sequences, shitty minigames and general tedious simulator aspects).

 

[Ezekiel]

Max Payne 3 is underrated, combat wise. Its problem is endless cutscenes that never stop.

Definitely would prefer bullet time in a western over this dead eye tagging bullcrap.

 

[Ezekiel]

This is for The Sentinel.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Slow games are boring. People have to accept that fact when they want devs to make their game slow paced. Yes, this counts for rpgs too.

That's a very generalistic and retarded statement.
Thief 1/2, REmake, Subnautica, Deus Ex 1, Gothic, STALKER, Arx Fatallis, Pathalogic 2, Battle Brothers, Warband, Dark Sun, Star Trail, hell even most Zelda games and Demon's Souls are slow placed games, and they are all excellent.
RDR2 is slow paced for the wrong reasons - i.e. slow animations, bad quest design, filler content, vast empty world, long campgain with few engaging missions, and (like alot of people were talking in the previous page) underdeveloped gameplay.

 

[Sentinel]

This is for The Sentinel.

I've completed Max Payne 3 7 times on the max difficulty and I didn't even realize it had crouch/roll until my 3rd playthrough. It's a subpar option compared to simply shootdodging and popping all 5 of those guys with headshots instantly.

Max Payne 3 is underrated, combat wise. Its problem is endless cutscenes that never stop.

Definitely would prefer bullet time in a western over this dead eye tagging bullcrap.

RDR2 does have bullet time. You're not forced to tag and insta kill enemies sometime in Chapter 2 or 3 I think, when you unlock the Dead Eye upgrade. You can shoot while the game is slowed down.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

I will also just pop in to say that if you want to play some Western already, get the New Vegas Bounties trilogy mods. The first part just gets the ball rolling but II and III are excellent. Bonus point if you watched The Great Silence with Klaus Kinski before playing III.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

I hope they eventually port the RDR1 to the PC too

It was already said that the code of the first game is a barely functioning mess, which basically allows for neither ports, nor a potential remaster Skyrim SE-way. Your best bet is having a fat ass rig for Xenia.

 

[Gerrard]

H
O
R
S
E

TESTICLES

 

[JarlFrank]

Slow games are boring. People have to accept that fact when they want devs to make their game slow paced. Yes, this counts for rpgs too.

That's a very generalistic and retarded statement.
Thief 1/2, REmake, Subnautica, Deus Ex 1, Gothic, STALKER, Arx Fatallis, Pathalogic 2, Battle Brothers, Warband, Dark Sun, Star Trail, hell even most Zelda games and Demon's Souls are slow placed games, and they are all excellent.
RDR2 is slow paced for the wrong reasons - i.e. slow animations, bad quest design, filler content, vast empty world, long campgain with few engaging missions, and (like alot of people were talking in the previous page) underdeveloped gameplay.

I actually enjoy The Long Dark, it's a very relaxing gameplay experience, love to fire up that game at night after work and just try to survive for a few hours.

Walking isn't super fast, and the pace of gameplay is pretty slow too, but the game is actually forcing you to conserve resources and be careful around wild animals or you're going to fucking die so it's still an engaging experience.

Slow animations and a lack of interesting content is the bad kind of slow, though, especially when the uninteresting content also comes with a lack of danger.

 

[Ezekiel]

I've completed Max Payne 3 7 times on the max difficulty and I didn't even realize it had crouch/roll until my 3rd playthrough. It's a subpar option compared to simply shootdodging and popping all 5 of those guys with headshots instantly.

If you've played Max Payne 3 so many times, then you know shoot dodging leaves you vulnerable as your character stands up. It's usually better to use if there aren't that many enemies left. I like variety. The more options I have, the better. The roll has proven itself effective many times in single player already, and after this experiment and all my success in multiplayer, I'm gonna use crouch more in single player.

 

[sullynathan]

That's a very generalistic and retarded statement.
Thief 1/2, REmake, Subnautica, Deus Ex 1, Gothic, STALKER, Arx Fatallis, Pathalogic 2, Battle Brothers, Warband, Dark Sun, Star Trail, hell even most Zelda games and Demon's Souls are slow placed games, and they are all excellent.
RDR2 is slow paced for the wrong reasons - i.e. slow animations, bad quest design, filler content, vast empty world, long campgain with few engaging missions, and (like alot of people were talking in the previous page) underdeveloped gameplay.

I'm surprised it didn't cross your mind that some of these games you mentioned are boring. Outside of quests, Gothic suffers from many of the same problems as RDR2. It has really bad combat, slow traversal of the environment and a vast world. The only thing I'll give it credit for is that it realized fast travel is important in these open world games and allows you to do so without menus, loading screens or using pre-set locations.

STALKER is boring, Demon's Souls is boring and isn't excellent while the other games like Teef and Resident Evil are more like slow paced action games that are really short so they aren't that comparable to an open world game.

This is for The Sentinel.

Did Sentinel go to your channel and dislike the video with two different accounts?

 

[Paul_cz]

That's a very generalistic and retarded statement.
Thief 1/2, REmake, Subnautica, Deus Ex 1, Gothic, STALKER, Arx Fatallis, Pathalogic 2, Battle Brothers, Warband, Dark Sun, Star Trail, hell even most Zelda games and Demon's Souls are slow placed games, and they are all excellent.
RDR2 is slow paced for the wrong reasons - i.e. slow animations, bad quest design, filler content, vast empty world, long campgain with few engaging missions, and (like alot of people were talking in the previous page) underdeveloped gameplay.

This is a generalistic and retarded statement too, because it is completely subjective to you. Other people can have the opposite impressions and enjoyment of all those games

 

[Sentinel]

Did Sentinel go to your channel and dislike the video with two different accounts?

lol, reaching a bit there.

 

[sullynathan]

Did Sentinel go to your channel and dislike the video with two different accounts?

lol, reaching a bit there.

So that's your 3rd account?