Question about stat checks in dialogues

[Tony Lynx]

Hey guys. So i have a simple question - what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.
I'm making my own RPG game and personally prefer the latter with certain checks, but if it turns out that overwhelming majority prefers the dice rolls. maybe i'll have to rethink my approach.
I thank you in advance for your cooperation

 

[Crispy]

RPG game

Oh, you'll fit in perfectly here.

 

[Tony Lynx]

Oh, you'll fit in perfectly here.

Lol happens to me alot. Was too nervous, while writing this post

 

[Crispy]

It's forgivable.

Welcome to Codex.

 

[Tony Lynx]

It's forgivable.

Welcome to Codex.

Thanks and thanks

 

[Butter]

You forgot the Kingcomrade option, CP2077's guaranteed failure choices.

 

[The_Mask]

Is there some sort of magic pill going around these people that come posting here, where they MUST post "RPG game" somewhere within their first post?

 

[Tony Lynx]

Is there some sort of magic pill going around these people that come posting here, where they MUST post "RPG game" somewhere within their first post?

Must? No one forced me. I did it out of my own free will

You forgot the Kingcomrade option, CP2077's guaranteed failure choices.

What do you mean?

 

[Crispy]

Either way can work, in my opinion.

On one hand, a random chance for success weighted by the character's skill in Speechcraft or whatever adds a certain thrill to the game element, guaranteeing at least some chance of success.

On the other, if you simply lack the skill to convince that particular NPC of your agenda or to extract from him what you want to learn from him, tough titties.

Maybe the question is, which system is more "realistic"? Are there random chances of success when speaking to someone in real life, whether you'll convince them of your stance or viewpoint, or is it already set?

 

[Tony Lynx]

Either way can work, in my opinion.

On one hand, a random chance for success weighted by the character's skill in Speechcraft or whatever adds a certain thrill to the game element, guaranteeing at least some chance of success.

On the other, if you simply lack the skill to convince that particular NPC of your agenda or to extract from him what you want to learn from him, tough titties.

Maybe the question is, which system is more "realistic"? Are there random chances of success when speaking to someone in real life, whether you'll convince them of your stance or viewpoint, or is it already set?

This is the most problematic thing in game design where you have to make compromises - trying to balance between realism and fun gameplay. Dice roll choices on one hand are closer to how conversations turn out in real life, but on the other they can infuriate player when he fails a 95% success check and push him closer to the dark side of save scumming.
I want to make hardcoded checks more realistic where they depend not only on your sheer charisma or some other stat. but also on your reputation with the person or his faction. where you have to pass both those checks in order to succeed

 

[Crispy]

Seems like you answered your own question, then.

btw, "kc" as a poll option is an old Codex tradition. It's complicated. It means nothing, ultimately.

 

[Tony Lynx]

Seems like you answered your own question, then.

Yep those were my reasons for preferring this approach. I just wanted to make sure, that this approach is not universally hated

btw, "kc" as a poll option is an old Codex tradition. It's complicated. It means nothing, ultimately.

Noted. Can't edit my post, but I will keep that in mind for the next time

 

[V_K]

what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.

Neither. Screw binary skillchecks.
Do a persuasion/reaction system like in Morrowind, or a resource pool like in Numenera or The Council (i.e. the lower your stat, the more resource you need to spend to succeed) - just something that can be gamed rather than metagamed.

 

[Tony Lynx]

what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.

Neither. Screw binary skillchecks.
Do a persuasion/reaction system like in Morrowind, or a resource pool like in Numenera or The Council (i.e. the lower your stat, the more resource you need to spend to succeed) - just something that can be gamed rather than metagamed.

There won't be any out of the blue "choose this to persuade" answers. In order to even get this option, you'll have to chose appropriate responses from the start of the dialogue and carefully build it from there. At least that's how I'm trying to write them. There could be options like "if you have 10 Intelligence or more, say some smart thing" which won't require any prerequisite buildup, but such options won't be problem solvers or quest completers

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.

 

[Tony Lynx]

I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.

Absolutely agree with you on that. That's why there won't be any indication in dialogue choices wherever it is based on some stat or event or it is an always available default option. Nothing like this PoE stuff

 

[NJClaw]

Hardcoded checks, otherwise I will savescum until I get the desired result if I really care about it. I need developers to actively stop me from ruining my own fun, fuck.

 

[Tony Lynx]

Hardcoded checks, otherwise I will savescum until I get the desired result if I really care about it. I need developers to actively stop me from ruining my own fun, fuck.

Exactly my thoughts. Disco Elysium was so infuriating in that regard. I want content blocked and story progressed purely because of my choices and not because of some random number generator

 

[The_Mask]

I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.

Either that or go 100% in and colour it like VtM:B.

 

[Tigranes]

It depends on what else the game is about, but generally threshold checks seem a better default to start off with. There's not a really solid gameplay justification for pushing dice rolls in this particular instance. And honestly, the crux of any skill-checks in dialogues is how you handle failure states & multiple paths to victory. The questions about dice v. threshold, shown v. hidden, is really secondary.

 

[Roguey]

Nothing like this PoE stuff

Imagine complaining about this when Sawyer specifically included an option to disable it so you types wouldn't complain about it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

doesn't matter because they shouldn't be visible to the player

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nothing like this PoE stuff

Imagine complaining about this when Sawyer specifically included an option to disable it so you types wouldn't complain about it.

"sure the game comes with cheats enabled by default, but you can disable them!"

 

[Roguey]

"sure the game comes with cheats enabled by default, but you can disable them!"

Mind your own business with regard to how other people play games.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"sure the game comes with cheats enabled by default, but you can disable them!"

Mind your own business with regard to how other people play games.

No