Decline PS4 wins the console war against XboxONE, yet it is a hollow victory as Consolesdämmerung is upon us

[DalekFlay]

400$ for subpar performance, poor controls, restriction to games that are mysteriously much more expensive + having to pay Live subscription/PSN every month to access basic features.

Pff, peasants...

People generally dislike upfront costs. A $1,000 gaming PC looks a lot higher than a $400 PS4 on day one, even if that $400 PS4 ends up costing you $1,000 by the end of its lifespan due to subscription costs, higher game prices and peripherals.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

400$ for subpar performance, poor controls, restriction to games that are mysteriously much more expensive + having to pay Live subscription/PSN every month to access basic features.

Pff, peasants...

People generally dislike upfront costs. A $1,000 gaming PC looks a lot higher than a $400 PS4 on day one, even if that $400 PS4 ends up costing you $1,000 by the end of its lifespan due to subscription costs, higher game prices and peripherals.

What about 600$ gaming pc then?What is the rational for that?

 

[Morgoth]

You do know that PS4 devkits/debug versions are not representative of the final quality?

Just look up recent PS4 footage. It looks better than your alpha-version screens you provided.

I know people always feel inclined spreading disinformation for ad hominem's sake. But you gotta stop with that nonsense.

 

[DalekFlay]

People generally dislike upfront costs. A $1,000 gaming PC looks a lot higher than a $400 PS4 on day one, even if that $400 PS4 ends up costing you $1,000 by the end of its lifespan due to subscription costs, higher game prices and peripherals.

What about 600$ gaming pc then?What is the rational for that?

Eh... that PC might not beat the PS4 considering the dedicated hardware edge. Also $200 is $200 to some people. Also some people are traditionally console gamers and don't want to change.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Consoles are underpowered because more powerful components cost more money, and everyone in the industry remembers the disaster that was the PS3 launch. That's the primary reason. Of course, powerful components drawing more power, and therefore generating more heat, requiring better (and noisier) cooling solutions, as well as larger cases, all do make a difference. But cost is definitely the top reason.

A clockrate increase costs zilch. They could have clocked the CPU @2,8 Ghz if they wanted to. But besides power draw it is also influencing the case design/cooler/air flow (minimal additional BOM) which requires a larger casing. Large cases don't look very sexy, according to marketing. So it's a balancing act. Like everything in engineering, it's a balancing act.

Bottom line is: $400 (actually, $350 + $ 50 for controller) is a good price for what these systems provide.

If you really think they could have clocked the Jaguar at 2.8 Ghz with "minimal additional BOM", you're fucking insane. In fact, if you believe that anyone ever actually doing this in a real product is a good idea, you don't understand how hardware works.

 

[Morgoth]

Uh huh. MS overclocked the XBO CPU an additional 150Mhz after they locked down the hardware & testing. Jaguar's working point is somewhere between 2,0 - 2,6 Ghz. They underclocked the damn thing to save BOM costs (PSU, heatsink, etc.) and keep the casing small. A major overclock could have been cheaper than adding a larger die space/more shader units like you proposed, if they wanted to.

What exactly is it now that doesn't get through your skull?

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Eh... that PC might not beat the PS4 considering the dedicated hardware edge.

It does beat it.

Also $200 is $200 to some people.

I don't buy that,it will be funny to see how many who bought new consoles got all 3 of them or both(without WU).Also games cost more and pirating is harder/more risky.If cost is your concern you must be pretty retarded to go for console over computer.That's why here in eastern europe people go for pc every time and consoles are luxury item.

Also some people are traditionally console gamers and don't want to change.

HDMI cable and controller with big picture and you got that console gaming.

My point is if these are people's reasons to have only console ,they are retarded.

 

[DalekFlay]

Eh... that PC might not beat the PS4 considering the dedicated hardware edge.

It does beat it.

Depends, man. I could probably do a $600 upgrade and be way ahead, but someone starting from scratch would need a case, power supply, Windows license, gaming mouse, etc. $600 is a pretty tight budget.

 

[Morgoth]

Demon's Souls II PS4 exclusive is what can make a hardened PC gamer very emotional though.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Depends, man. I could probably do a $600 upgrade and be way ahead, but someone starting from scratch would need a case, power supply, Windows license, gaming mouse, etc. $600 is a pretty tight budget.

600$ are still enough and it beats it.Even with moronic examples like gaming mouse,which are cheap as fuck.

 

[tuluse]

Eh... that PC might not beat the PS4 considering the dedicated hardware edge.

It does beat it.

Depends, man. I could probably do a $600 upgrade and be way ahead, but someone starting from scratch would need a case, power supply, Windows license, gaming mouse, etc. $600 is a pretty tight budget.

You can definitely do it for ~700

Spoiler

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't see Windows, cases or peripherals in there.

Anyway I couldn't give a fuck less about this argument so whatever. PC gaming is super cheap! Man those console guys are so retarded! Etc. etc.

 

[tuluse]

I don't see Windows, cases or peripherals in there.

Anyway I couldn't give a fuck less about this argument so whatever. PC gaming is super cheap! Man those console guys are so retarded! Etc. etc.

Far right column is a case. Somewhere between the 598 and 677 points + $100 Windows license is about 700 like I said.

I hope we're not quibbling over $10 keyboards and mice which almost everyone has anyways.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Uh huh. MS overclocked the XBO CPU an additional 150Mhz after they locked down the hardware & testing. Jaguar's working point is somewhere between 2,0 - 2,6 Ghz. They underclocked the damn thing to save BOM costs (PSU, heatsink, etc.) and keep the casing small. A major overclock could have been cheaper than adding a larger die space/more shader units like you proposed, if they wanted to.

What exactly is it now that doesn't get through your skull?

C'mon Morgoth, you can do better than outright lies. That post about PS4's ACE units was pretty decent, but now you're just phoning it in.

 

[Gurkog]

I was gaming at 1600p and over 30fps 6 years ago. That is with mid-low end desktop from that time.

These AAA studios should commit collective suicide for not meeting at least 1080p on consoles that are better than my shit computer.

 

[Night Goat]

You do know that PS4 devkits/debug versions are not representative of the final quality?

You also do know that, despite the shitty Jaguar cores, it's still superior to the 360 CPU or Ps3 CPU?

When I saw "Jaguar cores", this is the first thing that came to mind:

 

[DragoFireheart]

You do know that PS4 devkits/debug versions are not representative of the final quality?

You also do know that, despite the shitty Jaguar cores, it's still superior to the 360 CPU or Ps3 CPU?

When I saw "Jaguar cores", this is the first thing that came to mind:

AND we can only hope that next-gen share the same fate as that Piece Of Shit system and ITZ comes to the game industry.

 

[Burning Bridges]

600$ are still enough and it beats it.Even with moronic examples like gaming mouse,which are cheap as fuck.

Most of us can do a 600$ upgrade. But that doesn't mean everyone else can do it. Most people just run into a shop and come home with a laptop that's slower than my current (6 year old) PC, and runs on Windows 8 Home. Everyone wants laptops these days. They don't get the whole point of having a real PC, cooling, speed, ease of maintenance, and the option to swap parts.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I don't see Windows, cases or peripherals in there.

Windows
case: I already have one
peripherals: I have everything

All that's needed is mainboard, CPU, RAM, and video card.

 

[DragoFireheart]

600$ are still enough and it beats it.Even with moronic examples like gaming mouse,which are cheap as fuck.

Most of us can do a 600$ upgrade. But that doesn't mean everyone else can do it. Most people just run into a shop and come home with a laptop that's slower than my current (6 year old) PC, and runs on Windows 8 Home. Everyone wants laptops these days. They don't get the whole point of having a real PC, cooling, speed, ease of maintenance, and the option to swap parts.

I bought a gaming Laptop once.

Never again.

 

[Xor]

Gaming laptops are and always will be a waste of money. You can build a proper PC for half the price (or less) and you don't have the added problem of slowly wearing out your hardware due to inadequate cooling. Plus like Burning Bridges mentioned you can't upgrade or even replace failed components in some cases. And laptop manufacturers use shit parts to save money so they're more likely to fail over time.

 

[AstroZombie]

Eh... that PC might not beat the PS4 considering the dedicated hardware edge.

It does beat it.

Depends, man. I could probably do a $600 upgrade and be way ahead, but someone starting from scratch would need a case, power supply, Windows license, gaming mouse, etc. $600 is a pretty tight budget.

If you're so inclined on getting a legit Windows license you get get one off of Reddit's r/softwareswap for $20.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-why-xbox-ones-media-strategy-failed

Excerpt:

Why Xbox One's ambitious media strategy failed

The pack-in Kinect is no more, and while Microsoft remains bullish on the camera's place at the heart of "the premium Xbox One experience", the reality is clear: for all the right reasons, Kinect has gone from being an integral component to an optional peripheral.

This solves many problems: the price differential with PlayStation 4 has now been addressed, while internal resources dedicated to Kinect processing can now be returned to game developers. On the flipside, the original vision for Xbox One as a multi-faceted all-in-one entertainment system as well as a games machine now lies in ruins. Kinect was at the heart of everything that made Xbox One different and without it we're left with a machine that offers pretty much the exact same proposition as PS4, but without parity in hardware specifications.

This week's announcements are all about levelling the playing field with Sony. The price is the same, Games with Gold moves closer into alignment with PlayStation Plus, while non-gaming services are also like-for-like thanks to the removal of the almost criminal paywall that saw users paying for the privilege of using Internet Explorer, Skype and even non-Microsoft services like YouTube and Netflix - a state of affairs entirely unique to Xbox in a world where all of those services are free on virtually every other device available. It's the latest in a long line of U-turns, but there's the sense that Microsoft is finally listening.

But of all the repositioning carried out this week, it's the removal of Kinect that feels most important, because it's the end of Microsoft's vision for an all-in-one entertainment system. In hindsight, packing in Kinect and making media integration central to the Xbox One proposition looks like an awful mistake. However, put into context, there were perfectly logical reasons for every single element of its failed strategy. So what were they? And what kind of legacy do they leave now that things have changed so dramatically?

 

[Kane]

don't buy microsoft
i never did
and work with their shoddy products every day

#MLGhaikumasterseries2014

 

[DalekFlay]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-why-xbox-ones-media-strategy-failed

Funny thing is Microsoft could go on to make up ground and win the console war this go-around, but unless the Xbox is the all in one living room media box of the future they still lose. That was their goal from day one, and how the justified the investment and shrugging off PC gaming.