I always enjoyed getting points to spend on level up.
Last Dream does something very different for a JRPG-style RPG. Each level up you literally get points to spend in every single statistical category of attributes (and there are many more than your standard RPG).
Yes, this can lead to bad builds and what not, but it gives you total control of how you'd like to build your characters. If you have a basic grasp on what the stats do, it's not too hard, and you get enough points that you can make up a difference the next time you level up if you realize you made a mistake.
Also has a 700+ page manual if you're into the hardcore aspect of things.
This type of system is not really a casual-friendly feature but I really thought it was neat.
I'm not familiar with Last Dream, but some rpgs (both western and japanese) include auto level features to provide a casual friendly alternative instead of the power gaming customization.
Level with use always feels the most sensible to me as an ideal since it forces the character to occupy the game role you're constructing for them - e.g. if I have a warrior who I want to be able to use some sort of priest armor buff then a usage-based system requires that I have to have him directly experienced in that school of magic. As opposed to point allotment where he could hammer smash fifty trolls to level up and then translate that to magical knowledge somehow.
That said, AoD's compromise with point allotment and usage based worked really well for me. You get certain general points and then other combat or civic depending on how you completed a quest/what quests you did. So you're much encouraged to build according to how you've already been playing but not actually entirely stuck to that line if you want more breadth.
Agreed. Seems a bit dumb to increase a wisdom related stat by cleaving hundreds of ogres and lizardmen. But that's the nature of
dungeon crawler, thus for me is alright for those kind of games. I have to really play AoD, what I have read so far is quite promising, Elder Scrolls Morrowind and its sequels are one of the few rpgs I actually played with level usage system, in theory is quite neat, but its implementation feels flawed since you always receive the same amount of XP regardless the action (ex. crouching for five to six hours behind a npc to max sneak).
Point allotment seems like the better option as it allows more CHOICE and CONSEQUENCE to your character, Stiff Stat growth system remove a lot of the excitement of leveling up in a RPG whistle denying a lot of nifty character customization options. The only consequence of Point Allotment is it tends to hurt balance and encourage Min-Maxing, but with a meaningful stat base system that doesn't place pointless attributes like Charisma which is an ubiquitous dump stat making every stat valuable in the game world so you can Spec a Intelligence warrior and have him be viable to an extent.
Take two of these JRPG Weaboo RPGs for example Final Fantasy IV and Pokemon Platinum, Pokemon Platinum doesn't have full Stat Allocation as that will trigger ten years olds with too much Knowledge their feeble minds can't manage but compared to Final Fantasy their is generally more variance in Play style between characters. and its completely possible you ruin your Pokemon.
Paladin Cecil and Kaine (Final Fantasy IV) pretty much play the same no matter what you do, you can make a Dragonite (Pokemon) a Defensive Tank, a Special Attacker, a Physically attacker, and a Stat boosting Sweeper by allocating Effort Values to certain stats.
Well, that applies to Fallout since a high Intelligence stat renders charisma useless unless you want a sizable party, but at least It
does fill a niche. Anyway, if there is a hypothetical universe where Black Isle still owns the rights of its franchise, they should
remove CHAR and increase INT influence over persuasion. But I digress
Pokémon is a prime example of what I was talking about. Before sixth generation, base stats, nature actual bonus, effort points and Individual values were pretty much obscure concepts for anyone that didn't read the wiki, and they were hinted with NPCs vague commentaries, and yes, you can ruin your pokémon for post game battle frontier and pvp online, but until you defeat the elite 4, overleveling a decent pokémon (starters, dragon types,tauros,scolipede,kadabra, etc.) and weakness exploit was enough to finish the game. Now with super training, you can grasp how good is a pokemon to perform a role without browsing wiki.
I think giving the player the power to make or break his characters himself is the best way to go about it. Games with passive stat growth usually don't make a big deal out of stats. The worst kind of example of this would be a game like Diablo 3 or World of Warcraft. No one gives a fuck about the stats you gain each time you level up in those games.
Although obvious, In Every "good" rpg I have played with stat allotment system, your PC build is always quite relevant, like Divine Divinity, FO 1 & 2 and New Vegas,gothic,etc. In awful rpgs like FO 3 & 4 , the system feels like a meaningless filler, a funny gimmick, since there is not any relevant playable motivation to build in a specific way because eventually everything is thrown at you in a copious amount regardless of your stat allocation and perk choices.
but I can't think of any other bad example I actually played.
Well yes,that usually happens with rpgs with passive stat growth, Diablo 3 is blatantly even more equipment dependent than the former games for example. But in games such as Final Fantasy tactics or the latest Dragon Quest, stat growth is really something
that would screw up a character if zero fucks were given about it.
The mythical delineation between auto-allocate JRPGs and manual-spending western games does not exist.
7 of the 8 Wizardry games had randomized stat gains. Diablo 3 auto-increases your stats. Ultima lets you build in some games. Insanely popular Skyrim doesn't even have stats.
About half the Final Fantasys allow stat manipulation in some form. Magicite in FF6, Materia in FF7, Junctioning in FF8. Your weapons affect your stat gains in FF9. FF10 had the sphere grid where you bought your stats with levels. Shin Megaim Tensei/Persona games have always had manual stat allocation.
You're right. But when I was writing the post, 16 bit jrpgs like dragon quest or tactics ogre, were the ones that came to my mind as a stat growth system example. For me, standard jrpgs follow some of the classic DQ formula, although nowadays that sounds quite vague.
A way that I've thought of for a turn-based RPG-lite that I've been too sing around in my head is that you spend gold in fountains in the dungeon to raise one of three stars and each fountain raises a specific stat by a specific amount and can only be used once. As you raise a stat, the cost for further increases will also raise. The stats are Strength for doing more damage, Willpower as your magic stat, and Dexterity as a speed stat to determine turn order and at higher levels, a multiplier. Sound good?
That sounds rather similar to what teachers do in Elder Scrolls and Gothic games. Except for the limited use part.
