Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Nearly not as popular as the topic about marrying Eder sadly. But that was taken.

 

[Lilura]

This was a funny read, too:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103155-baldurs-gate-2-poe-2-deadfire/

 

[Shadenuat]

If you concider funny your blood boiled by dumbfuck sawyerists who cry for their social life ruined by BG2 mage duels.

 

[Lilura]

The posting standards seem quite low on the Obsidian boards: even you seem monocled and literate in such "company"...

 

[AwesomeButton]

This was a funny read, too:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103155-baldurs-gate-2-poe-2-deadfire/

Is the OP your alt?

 

[Lilura]

Oh well, back to blogging. Take it easy, fags.

 

[Lacrymas]

I always get some form of e-cancer when I visit the Obsidian forums, it really is something.

 

[Shadenuat]

The posting standards seem quite low on the Obsidian boards: even you seem monocled and literate in such "company"...

Hold your horses dragon lady. Arcanum portrait gives you only so many Charisma points against this demon.

I always get some form of e-cancer when I visit the Obsidian forums, it really is something.

It became a lot closer to bioware social. The incredibly long ass posts about how we all should be kind to each other and create a form of criticism which would not offend anyone, together with "it's just my opinion dude" made it insufferable to navigate in a search for goddamn point. Some people are just outright random and impossible to comprehend i.e suddenly door slams open and dude rushes in crying that everyone should just solo that shit because playing a party is a fucking chore. My favorite moment was when some people tried to tear Tigranes into little ribbons for pointing out that, well, PoE was indeed promised as a hardcore game for an audience that enjoys party combat.

Also the character builds with anime girl portraits

For forum dedicated to PoE games especially, the amount of people outright hating on IE also became unbelievably high. Seems paradoxical to me.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Maybe the perception of IE games being hard(for some people) has to do with the 2nd edition rules and how easy it is to make an underpowered character. IE games have way more traps that will make the game more difficult. Underpowered classes like a straight thief, and plenty of useless spells. There's only a handful of useful spells in Baldur's Gate1/2 and knowing which ones will make the game much easier.

This is one aspect of IE that Pillars did not inherit. Not everything in Pillars is balanced, but that balance is much tighter so its almost impossible to make an underpowered character.

I agree on this and according thousands guides on BG1/BG2 many people agree too, only pink glasses wielders like Shadenuat refuse to admit.

IMO should have called it DRA for die roll advantage, such a simple concept with such a weird name.

You have a point.

Also the character builds with anime girl portraits.

Congratulations! You successfully destroyed all your weak arguments by yourself! Oh wait, you can't destroy that doesn't exist in first place. Cherry picking does NOT count as argument. I am not a fan of anime and even despise some cancerous weaboo people, but blame them for using weird pictures as portraits for their builds is a top of arrogance and hypocrisy. They should using only "verified" by you portraits or what? Interestng, If you was a weaboo, you would hate people with classic painting portraits? So many questions, not enough answers.

For forum dedicated to PoE games especially, the amount of people outright hating on IE also became unbelievably high. Seems paradoxical to me.

I struggle to understand why would be anyone hate such an old game, maybe it's defensive reaction on people who claim that EVERYTHING should be the same as in 20 years old game. Nothing paradoxical in hate towards people, who hate you.

 

[Shadenuat]

There's no need to be upset friend. Horo is p. cool.

EVERYTHING should be the same as in 20 years old game

Rather that things that were already fixed and implemented by fans throughout 20 years should have served as a point of reference about what fans wanted in the new game. But that's all useless talk by now.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

There's no need to be upset friend. Horo is p. cool.


Rather that things that were already fixed and implemented by fans throughout 20 years should have served as a point of reference about what fans wanted in the new game. But that's all useless talk by now.

Who/What is Horo? Sorry, maybe I am stupid, but I don't understand.
About fans and their opinions about mechanics - there hundreds and thousands people who have their own opinion about "things that should be fixed and implemented" and what they want from new game, so creating new game with taking in consideration only fans opinions very problematic. I have said this thousand times, but I think PoE devs decision to sell game as straight descendant of IE games was questionable move.

 

[Shadenuat]

Nope, it was the only move. They took the most popular thing for which they had all the cards and right people on the team and played it.

 

[Parabalus]

In IE you gain all spells and if one is useless, you simply memorise another which is better for the encounter.

Yes, but you said, "You can't pick wrong spells in IE because you always have them."

Fact is, you can pick wrong spells and you don't always have them (the full spell range for each and every circle).

This is true even of BG2, where you start out pretty powerful and find yourself in a rich city. Sorcerers aside (we know they get to pick spells as they lvl - but you can still make a wrong choice, which hurts, let's bear that in mind), arcane spellcasters first have to find the spell scroll. Adventurer's Mart does not offer many key spell scrolls. You have to explore a whole city and its sprawling outskirts to find them (as loot and through other vendors, a few of which need to be opened up by doing quests or exploring at different times of the day). Then, there is a chance of failure in scribing it to the spellbook.

IWD and IWD2 are very stingy in spell scroll itemization. I have written about that more than I would care to admit.

PS:T, too. It can take a while to get TNO and Dak'kon going with good spell ranges per circle. Good luck finding the I WIN spells such as EED.

You also ignored your other statement: "In IE every class is a well rounded package doing everything you need"

Clearly, that's just bull.

That would make sense if you needed anything but 1-2 spells per level. Examples:

1st - magic missiles/identify but that's stretching it
2nd - horror/MI
3d - haste/FB/Skull trap
4th - Stoneskin/MAAAAAAAAYBE Secret Word if rushing
5th - Breach
6th - Pierce Magic/True S

7th and above are luxuries and cheese basically

7th - w/e
8th - horrid wilting
9th - lol, pick anything they are all IWIN buttons.

Pretty sure all those scrolls are on vendors in Waukeens.

 

[fantadomat]

Well speaking about spells,the only good thing that EE did was make the scrolls coloured so you would know if the characters have it in his spellbook.

 

[The Avatar]

That would make sense if you needed anything but 1-2 spells per level.

1st - magic missiles/identify but that's stretching it
2nd - horror/MI
3d - haste/FB/Skull trap
4th - Stoneskin/MAAAAAAAAYBE Secret Word if rushing
5th - Breach
6th - Pierce Magic/True S

7th and above are luxuries and cheese basically

7th - w/e
8th - horrid wilting
9th - lol, pick anything they are all IWIN buttons.

Exactly- And you wouldn't know to pick or buy those few spells unless you're already experienced with the game- hence the point that it's easy to make an ineffective character in BG if you don't know what you're doing. And this is just Wizards- try playing a thief. The concept of thief/rogue being glass cannons wasn't around then. Except for your 1 backstab, you were just glass without the cannon.

You can make an ineffective character in POE as well- but you'd have to try much harder because all of the classes are actually useful. And of course you can always respec.

 

[aweigh]

to be fair i had indeed forgotten about the abomination that is 4th edition. I'd still take it over PoE but it would be like choosing between liquid diarrhea or hard diarrhea.

BTW, how does the PoE pen-and-paper tabletop system play? Does everyone have to play with calculator watches or some shit?

 

[The Avatar]

I had a thought. Since POE is not bound by the simplicity of fast PnP rules, and the calculations are already complex enough that you'd need a calculator to do them- they could have added tactical simulation elements in the form of modifiers for things like elevation, weather, cover, ect.

 

[Parabalus]

That would make sense if you needed anything but 1-2 spells per level.

1st - magic missiles/identify but that's stretching it
2nd - horror/MI
3d - haste/FB/Skull trap
4th - Stoneskin/MAAAAAAAAYBE Secret Word if rushing
5th - Breach
6th - Pierce Magic/True S

7th and above are luxuries and cheese basically

7th - w/e
8th - horrid wilting
9th - lol, pick anything they are all IWIN buttons.

Exactly- And you wouldn't know to pick or buy those few spells unless you're already experienced with the game- hence the point that it's easy to make an ineffective character in BG if you don't know what you're doing. And this is just Wizards- try playing a thief. The concept of thief/rogue being glass cannons wasn't around then. Except for your 1 backstab, you were just glass without the cannon.

You can make an ineffective character in POE as well- but you'd have to try much harder because all of the classes are actually useful. And of course you can always respec.

Those were just suggestions (outside of the metamagic which is harder to replace [for a beginner]), point is all the spell "diversity" is pointless since you can just spam one decent spell per level (like in PoE, but you can't fuck up and not choose it).

Pure class thiefs being garbage is almost a DnD tradition.

anyone who thinks poe system is better than *any* version of d&d is delusional

The AD&D system in Bg games is pretty garbage. Leveling is shitty and decisionless, and everything stacks so it's unbalanceable - your fighters have 95% hit the second you get out of the starting dungeon if you try even a bit.

Saving throws are also a mess, you get to negatives too easily and the minor modifiers of -6 to a ST for spells are added by hand.

It's good for Bg1, starts sucking in Bg2 and falls apart completely in ToB - the system, not the gameplay, to be clear. The game as you go along essentially does its best to remove all relevance from dice rolls, the designers built around the messy foundation successfully.

 

[aweigh]

this obsession with deconstructing levelling down to "choosing stuff" is pure cancer

 

[The Avatar]

As opposed to "Here are your 1d10+con hp and -1 THAC0"?

Choosing stuff is good, or even just getting new stuff. That was one of the issues with third edition(and pathfinder to a lesser extent) that Pillars was trying to improve on. There were "dead levels" where you didn't get anything.

 

[aweigh]

No level is dead, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Shadenuat]

Exactly- And you wouldn't know to pick or buy those few spells unless you're already experienced with the game

Dude this argument is really retarded. "You wouldn't know you want more spells for your wizard". As compared to what, wanting less spells?

You wouldn't know you better equip arrows for your dudes with bows. So let's remove arrows as an item, eh?

Choosing stuff is good, or even just getting new stuff

I'd say PoE with it's "pick best of worst" proved somewhat that choice for the reasoning of just having one is overrated.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I had a thought. Since POE is not bound by the simplicity of fast PnP rules, and the calculations are already complex enough that you'd need a calculator to do them- they could have added tactical simulation elements in the form of modifiers for things like elevation, weather, cover, ect.

This is the double standard that has irritated me all throughout PoE:

When Josh decides, certain things are completely haram, because "we are making a spiritual successor to the Infinity Engine gamez..."

Yet, when Josh decides, certain things are welcome, even when they are completely breaking off from the IE games' tradition, with explanations like "we are making a computer game", "we tried to imagine how the genre would have evolved", etc. I'll just mention one such instance, although in this particular case I agree with Josh - the reduction of the max party size to five.

I've been considering two things: elevation giving an advantage when fighting on a staircase, a ramp or any kind of slope, and certain weapons getting bonuses or maluses, if the enemy is wielding a certain other weapon type - fight a pike with a dagger and you'll be at a certain disadvantage. I think both would have been interesting mechanics to have.

 

[AwesomeButton]

On another note, I am playing with a paladin and a fighter in the party, and the combat tactics amount to:
Paladin:
1. Pick who to mark as a marked enemy.
2. Spam flames of devotion on him until he dies.
2.1 If he is low on health before the last strike, hit him with a normal attack so as to not waste a flames of devotion use.
2.2 If you run out of Power Source Points (why did Josh bother to think up names for the source points for every class is beyond me), use Empower on yourself to replenish them.
3. Repeat for the next active enemy.

Fighter:
1. Use charge on the nearest enemy
2. Keep him pinned down until one of the damage dealers can get on the other side, providing Flanked affliction
3. If a group of enemy gangs up on you, use Clean Sweep
4. Use Mule Kick/Knockdown to prevent casting an ability, or just for the heck of it.

I am mindlessly spamming the same active abilities each and every fight. How is this tactical? I'd much rather have these two classes with no active abilities, or 2-3 uses per rest of any combination of those abilities. It's currently a mindless chore of clicking the same buttons over and over again.

 

[Shadenuat]

Use best ability 10 times is only natural for a system like this. Rogue & Ranger are best examples of this.