Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[The_Mask]

No Julia, no like.

 

[Delterius]

I agree with you that ray attack Trickster makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean they can't do DC casting. I'd say they do it better than Lich. CNS is a big deal. From a control standpoint, with the Sorcerer Arcane bloodline, any spell with a non-instantaneous duration could be extended, persistent, and get +1 DC while occupying its base spell level. That's not quite an Azatas Favorable Magic, but its pretty damn good.

I didn't say Trickster can't do DC casting, only that it is not particularly effective at it. What you've described is nifty sure but unlike most mythic powers it does not synergize with DC casting. You're achieving the same level of power as Nenio or another vanilla spellcaster. You're not simply a notch below Favorable Magic or Demon DCs. You're an entire league below them. Case in point Azata doesn't just get favorable magic, they get zippy magic as well (which is better for non ray nukes and single target CCs) and they get spells which buff their DCs a bit. They'll have the same +1 to DCs as your trickster but enemies need to roll 4 times to survive their DCs.

 

[ArchAngel]

I agree with you that ray attack Trickster makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean they can't do DC casting. I'd say they do it better than Lich. CNS is a big deal. From a control standpoint, with the Sorcerer Arcane bloodline, any spell with a non-instantaneous duration could be extended, persistent, and get +1 DC while occupying its base spell level. That's not quite an Azatas Favorable Magic, but its pretty damn good.

I didn't say Trickster can't do DC casting, only that it is not particularly effective at it. What you've described is nifty sure but unlike most mythic powers it does not synergize with DC casting. You're achieving the same level of power as Nenio or another vanilla spellcaster. You're not simply a notch below Favorable Magic or Demon DCs. You're an entire league below them. Case in point Azata doesn't just get favorable magic, they get zippy magic as well (which is better for non ray nukes and single target CCs) and they get spells which buff their DCs a bit. They'll have the same +1 to DCs as your trickster but enemies need to roll 4 times to survive their DCs.

Angel and Lich are two best caster Mythics, others are all level below. It is pointless to even compare the rest as if you want true caster power you only got two real choices.

 

[Yosharian]

I agree with you that ray attack Trickster makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean they can't do DC casting. I'd say they do it better than Lich. CNS is a big deal. From a control standpoint, with the Sorcerer Arcane bloodline, any spell with a non-instantaneous duration could be extended, persistent, and get +1 DC while occupying its base spell level. That's not quite an Azatas Favorable Magic, but its pretty damn good.

I didn't say Trickster can't do DC casting, only that it is not particularly effective at it. What you've described is nifty sure but unlike most mythic powers it does not synergize with DC casting. You're achieving the same level of power as Nenio or another vanilla spellcaster. You're not simply a notch below Favorable Magic or Demon DCs. You're an entire league below them. Case in point Azata doesn't just get favorable magic, they get zippy magic as well (which is better for non ray nukes and single target CCs) and they get spells which buff their DCs a bit. They'll have the same +1 to DCs as your trickster but enemies need to roll 4 times to survive their DCs.

Angel and Lich are two best caster Mythics, others are all level below. It is pointless to even compare the rest as if you want true caster power you only got two real choices.

Legend caster can get pretty high DC, that's somewhat comparable I think

 

[Delterius]

I agree with you that ray attack Trickster makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean they can't do DC casting. I'd say they do it better than Lich. CNS is a big deal. From a control standpoint, with the Sorcerer Arcane bloodline, any spell with a non-instantaneous duration could be extended, persistent, and get +1 DC while occupying its base spell level. That's not quite an Azatas Favorable Magic, but its pretty damn good.

I didn't say Trickster can't do DC casting, only that it is not particularly effective at it. What you've described is nifty sure but unlike most mythic powers it does not synergize with DC casting. You're achieving the same level of power as Nenio or another vanilla spellcaster. You're not simply a notch below Favorable Magic or Demon DCs. You're an entire league below them. Case in point Azata doesn't just get favorable magic, they get zippy magic as well (which is better for non ray nukes and single target CCs) and they get spells which buff their DCs a bit. They'll have the same +1 to DCs as your trickster but enemies need to roll 4 times to survive their DCs.

Angel and Lich are two best caster Mythics, others are all level below. It is pointless to even compare the rest as if you want true caster power you only got two real choices.

Legend caster can get pretty high DC, that's somewhat comparable I think

The point is that Trickster is not good at DC casting. That you don't even have to bring up spellbook merging into this just strengthens that initial point.

 

[ga♥]

I mean, what's even the point

I hope they nerf angel somehow but I doubt they willl

 

[Cryomancer]

How Legend compares tp Azata and demon in therms of spell DC?

 

[Yosharian]

How Legend compares tp Azata and demon in therms of spell DC?

Bro I already broke down the exact DCs for you like a few pages so

 

[Humbaba]

In tougher fights my horse became a bit of a liability since it was often subject to focus firing by Babaus and enlarged Glabrezus. Once it dropped, I might as well have restarted everytime because I would usually get AOO'd to death trying to get up from lying prone.

Currently running my Deliverer with a Vital Strike build. Pretty good so far but I only just got that feat.

 

[ArchAngel]

Everyone is forgetting that Lich gets a decent passive bonus to Charisma and you can make a DC based Sorcerer with it and you get lots of HP as a bonus. And by end game you can cast spells with a lvl 32 caster (before items) and lich (and necromancy) has spells that don't have upper limit to its damage (bone based spells and lich unique spells). So you can do both DC caster and damage caster. Only Angel compares due to both crazy damage bonuses to all spells and big reduction to enemy saves. Yea you can make enemies roll twice for some spells with some other Mythics but that is not really needed once you get your DC high enough. Enemies rolling 20 is rare enough.

 

[ArchAngel]

Nice, I found a good bug. I gave Sosiel Animal domain, and while it says AC is his cleric level -3 that is ignored and Horse got to level up to full Sosiel level.

 

[Yosharian]

Everyone is forgetting that Lich gets a decent passive bonus to Charisma and you can make a DC based Sorcerer with it and you get lots of HP as a bonus. And by end game you can cast spells with a lvl 32 caster (before items) and lich (and necromancy) has spells that don't have upper limit to its damage (bone based spells and lich unique spells). So you can do both DC caster and damage caster. Only Angel compares due to both crazy damage bonuses to all spells and big reduction to enemy saves. Yea you can make enemies roll twice for some spells with some other Mythics but that is not really needed once you get your DC high enough. Enemies rolling 20 is rare enough.

I'm not forgetting anything, Legend can get at least as high if not higher than Lich. Demon can get as high but only for short bursts

 

[Cryomancer]

High-level D&D is broken and stupid no matter what, but that shit is just excessive, even by high-level D&D standards.

This is more high level than mask of the betrayer and hordes of the underdark. Mephistopheles in hotu is a legendary enemy where you spend a entire chapter to get his true name and have a small chance of victory. In this game, is a guy who got randomized by my Azata cryomancer before I've even ascended into a Azata. And BTW, he has 39 outsider levels and 20 wizard levels.

Video bellow >



And is not as if Kingmaker was low level(only in ch 1/2). You can fight a freaking Fey demigod in the game and the spawn of Rovagug, a God of destruction. I like high level sutff but honestly with that the next OwlCat game will be a lv 1~15 like Skull & Shakles or at best, a lv 1~18 adventure like Rise of the Runelords without the mythic stuff.

Bro I already broke down the exact DCs for you like a few pages so

I tried to find searching your name 7 pages away and din't found. Did anyone have a link for it? I wanna read it.

---------------

HEre is a unpopular opinion. OwlCat should allow Legend since chapter 2 instead of only in ch 5.

 

[ga♥]

the problem is the AI which sucks. Btw mephistoteles is "human"? wtf
Also he has 38 AC... seems a bug, like in my first playthrough Savamelekh had AC in the 20s on hard, and in my second they must have fixed it as he was in the 50s.

 

[Jaedar]

I like high level sutff but honestly with that the next OwlCat game will be a lv 1~15 like Skull & Shakles or at best, a lv 1~18 adventure like Rise of the Runelords without the mythic stuff.

I really like the mythic paths for the cool thematic abilities and the impact they have on the story. But I agree that high level stuff is not as good. I'd be perfectly fine with the game ending at level 14.

 

[Yosharian]

High-level D&D is broken and stupid no matter what, but that shit is just excessive, even by high-level D&D standards.

This is more high level than mask of the betrayer and hordes of the underdark. Mephistopheles in hotu is a legendary enemy where you spend a entire chapter to get his true name and have a small chance of victory. In this game, is a guy who got randomized by my Azata cryomancer before I've even ascended into a Azata. And BTW, he has 39 outsider levels and 20 wizard levels.

Video bellow >



And is not as if Kingmaker was low level(only in ch 1/2). You can fight a freaking Fey demigod in the game and the spawn of Rovagug, a God of destruction. I like high level sutff but honestly with that the next OwlCat game will be a lv 1~15 like Skull & Shakles or at best, a lv 1~18 adventure like Rise of the Runelords without the mythic stuff.

Bro I already broke down the exact DCs for you like a few pages so

I tried to find searching your name 7 pages away and din't found. Did anyone have a link for it? I wanna read it.

---------------

HEre is a unpopular opinion. OwlCat should allow Legend since chapter 2 instead of only in ch 5.

My posts regarding this are all on this page:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...s-release-thread.139979/page-582#post-7661532

Note that another thing that the Legend build I posted can do is give everyone on your team up to 40 BAB using alchemist transformation, which grants like 8 attacks per round

 

[Humbaba]

I don't mind the high level angle. We've seen the "rats to demons" kind of progression a million times. It's a nice change to have a plot where you're doing badass shit right from the start for once.

 

[ArchAngel]

Everyone is forgetting that Lich gets a decent passive bonus to Charisma and you can make a DC based Sorcerer with it and you get lots of HP as a bonus. And by end game you can cast spells with a lvl 32 caster (before items) and lich (and necromancy) has spells that don't have upper limit to its damage (bone based spells and lich unique spells). So you can do both DC caster and damage caster. Only Angel compares due to both crazy damage bonuses to all spells and big reduction to enemy saves. Yea you can make enemies roll twice for some spells with some other Mythics but that is not really needed once you get your DC high enough. Enemies rolling 20 is rare enough.

I'm not forgetting anything, Legend can get at least as high if not higher than Lich. Demon can get as high but only for short bursts

Yes, I guess you can get to caster level 40 but you lack unique spells. You can only so so much with few spells that can use that and you also don't get more spell slots so it kind of sucks. Or you can do caster level 25 with both arcane and divine so you can have more spell slots. Also no lvl 10 spell slots. Both Lich and Angel can put lvl 9 spells into lvl 10 slots with Persistent metamagic (after you lower its level mod to only +1). So you get best of all worlds.

 

[Haplo]

Actually the hard cap for Caster Level on Legend is supposed to be like 28. But to achieve that you need to have a (max?) Prestige class prior to level 20. Otherwise the cap is CL 20.

Edit: I think it was actually lower then 28 for Legend. Not sure how much now.

 

[Humbaba]

Glad to report that the vital strike build is working out great, especially with the mythic version and improved critical. One poke and that incubus goes flying.

 

[Yosharian]

Everyone is forgetting that Lich gets a decent passive bonus to Charisma and you can make a DC based Sorcerer with it and you get lots of HP as a bonus. And by end game you can cast spells with a lvl 32 caster (before items) and lich (and necromancy) has spells that don't have upper limit to its damage (bone based spells and lich unique spells). So you can do both DC caster and damage caster. Only Angel compares due to both crazy damage bonuses to all spells and big reduction to enemy saves. Yea you can make enemies roll twice for some spells with some other Mythics but that is not really needed once you get your DC high enough. Enemies rolling 20 is rare enough.

I'm not forgetting anything, Legend can get at least as high if not higher than Lich. Demon can get as high but only for short bursts

Yes, I guess you can get to caster level 40 but you lack unique spells. You can only so so much with few spells that can use that and you also don't get more spell slots so it kind of sucks. Or you can do caster level 25 with both arcane and divine so you can have more spell slots. Also no lvl 10 spell slots. Both Lich and Angel can put lvl 9 spells into lvl 10 slots with Persistent metamagic (after you lower its level mod to only +1). So you get best of all worlds.

You don't necessarily lack unique spells because you can go Lich as your initial path and then when you go Legend you get to keep all your Lich spells.

Level 10 spells are pretty trash though I'll grant that the slots are useful.

The ability to give everyone on your team 40 BAB shouldn't be discounted and as a primary caster you are at least as strong DC-wise as any pure path.

 

[ga♥]

The level 10 slots are useful for... ?

 

[Yosharian]

The level 10 slots are useful for... ?

 

[ga♥]

Can't use them for metamagic so what else?

 

[Yosharian]

Can't use them for metamagic so what else?

Wat. But Archangel just said you can. Are you sure?