Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[turkishronin]

Trolls have shitty will and shitty reflex. They are so weak to any good control spell/alch bomb/archon's really anything that companions are loaded with. You can also just web and let your ranged deal with them from afar while Valerie picks them up if they manage to escape the web.
So many ways you can deal with them.
This thread makes me wanna replay hmm.

I wish AI was smarter. Like they always target my tower shield(who literally can't land a hit on them) while my mage roasts them alive.

 

[skaraher]

First of all, what part of the game being shit and trivial did you not understand? What part of troll troll troll troll trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll requires thought?

You can litterally dispatch most trolls with auto-attacks, just git good.

The two extremes of suck.

Trolls are preview for Zombie Giants. They have exploitable weaknesses but if you don't exploit them effectively they will punish you. It isn't an auto-attack game.

You are likely to have more problems with fucking Wolves and the fights in the Witch hut area than with the trolls...... just cast Haste and Trolls are easy to deal with.

Hardest fight for this act used to be the hidden grove with the giant owlbears.

 

[Desiderius]

Trolls have shitty will and shitty reflex. They are so weak to any good control spell/alch bomb/archon's really anything that companions are loaded with. You can also just web and let your ranged deal with them from afar while Valerie picks them up if they manage to escape the web.
So many ways you can deal with them.
This thread makes me wanna replay hmm.

Reflex is consistently the low save, some have Will boosted and Hargulka's Mace makes him flat out immune to things like Hold Person.

Attacking Reflex means nukes (but hardest Trolls are Fire Immune) and/or environmental control like Web/Grease/Entangle. Jub's Tanglefoot/Force Bombs have more uses and are enemies only. Use those.

 

[volklore]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

volklore I've been considering doing the same. Full-tilt evil run. A barbarian would be a good fit, though losing out on some of the lawful perks for the kingdom would be unfortunate. Cleric might be good for MC since you'll most likely be side-lining Tristian. I don't much care for Harrim. I doubt I'll ever play this game with an MC that's a primary spellcaster though. This game was built for warriors.

 

[skaraher]

First of all, what part of the game being shit and trivial did you not understand? What part of troll troll troll troll trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll requires thought?

You can litterally dispatch most trolls with auto-attacks, just git good.

The two extremes of suck.

Trolls are preview for Zombie Giants. They have exploitable weaknesses but if you don't exploit them effectively they will punish you. It isn't an auto-attack game.

Not on challenging, Trolls are trash mob and you can clear most of Trollbod with limited micro.

 

[skaraher]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

Melee Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight/Dragon Disciple and larp as a red dragon.

 

[Yosharian]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

Use my challenge mod suggestions, I have been playing it and having an absolute blast

 

[Yosharian]

First of all, what part of the game being shit and trivial did you not understand? What part of troll troll troll troll trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll requires thought?

You can litterally dispatch most trolls with auto-attacks, just git good.

The two extremes of suck.

Trolls are preview for Zombie Giants. They have exploitable weaknesses but if you don't exploit them effectively they will punish you. It isn't an auto-attack game.

Not on challenging, Trolls are trash mob and you can clear most of Trollbod with limited micro.

Hargulka is an absolute beast with my recommended mods

 

[volklore]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

Use my challenge mod suggestions, I have been playing it and having an absolute blast

where can I find them ?

 

[Yosharian]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

Use my challenge mod suggestions, I have been playing it and having an absolute blast

where can I find them ?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1528413526

Go to the section titled 'lawful good kingdom' there's a mod section inside that

Also 'recommended mods'

 

[volklore]

I think I am going to go for the full Chaotic Evil run and get all them monsters in my capital : troll, kobolds undead, everybody in. What could go wrong ?
Gib class suggestions for such a masterpiece. Was thinking Cleric/Ecclesitheurge of lamashtu or maybe a bard of some ilk, something like this. On Unfair ofc.

Use my challenge mod suggestions, I have been playing it and having an absolute blast

where can I find them ?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1528413526

Go to the section titled 'lawful good kingdom' there's a mod section inside that

Also 'recommended mods'

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?
Dunno if I want to install that. I like to play with companions non respecced.

 

[Yosharian]

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?

Which mod are you referring to, exactly?

And why would it make certain strategies stronger?

 

[volklore]

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?

Which mod are you referring to, exactly?

And why would it make certain strategies stronger?

''Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level'' That's the only challenge mod right, beside your toybox setting that give enemies more hp ?
Not sure how much I like this. The late game balance kinda allows non-min maxxed builds and classes do to good on unfair. For example, wild hunt stuff has low fort and other saves are pretty high, getting extra diff modifier on top of that means their strong save could get into unreachable territory for some classes/builds which makes spells targetting fort even more of a no-brainer in this case.
But it's been a while since I played KM tbh.

 

[Desiderius]

KM is about bringing right group of companions to right area.

Jub/Ekun/Harrim/Linzi/Amiri works well vs Trobold at any difficulty.

Jub can put Shield/full Barkskin on Amiri who can Cleave with Trollreaper doing Acid to turn off regen etc. Harrim gets +4AC (stacking) vs Trolls, Ekun Favored Enemy allowing Oversized Acid Bow to hit despite penalty. Linzi Fascinate, Cacophonous Call gets around Hargulka’s immunities (Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

Different line-ups work well in different Chapters/dungeons.

 

[skaraher]

Also the game heavily pushes you to bring Ekun/Harrim/Jub in Trollbod as all of their companion quests need them to go there. I still think Act 2 critical path is the easiest and most forgiving one on the combat side. Most peoples who screw up this act do so by walking into kingdom management traps and badly handling the time limits.

 

[volklore]

So hmm I am pondering some invulnerable rager/alch build to grab some preserve organs and slap shit with a greataxe in reckless stance/inspire ferocity. Or maybe just a 2HF with intimidation feats. Half orc of course, for flair.
or do some shenanigans with madness domain Inquisitor. Never played an inquisitor before that could be interesting. If wrath taught me anything it is to love visions of madness. It's worse without domain zealot but still a super versatile buff/debuff

 

[Yosharian]

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?

Which mod are you referring to, exactly?

And why would it make certain strategies stronger?

''Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level'' That's the only challenge mod right, beside your toybox setting that give enemies more hp ?
Not sure how much I like this. The late game balance kinda allows non-min maxxed builds and classes do to good on unfair. For example, wild hunt stuff has low fort and other saves are pretty high, getting extra diff modifier on top of that means their strong save could get into unreachable territory for some classes/builds which makes spells targetting fort even more of a no-brainer in this case.
But it's been a while since I played KM tbh.

The difference it makes at end game is not huge, it's only a small difference. Won't completely invalidate your builds. The way it changes the early game is huge though. Trust me you want to try this mod. You could always uninstall it at endgame if you like.

 

[volklore]

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?

Which mod are you referring to, exactly?

And why would it make certain strategies stronger?

''Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level'' That's the only challenge mod right, beside your toybox setting that give enemies more hp ?
Not sure how much I like this. The late game balance kinda allows non-min maxxed builds and classes do to good on unfair. For example, wild hunt stuff has low fort and other saves are pretty high, getting extra diff modifier on top of that means their strong save could get into unreachable territory for some classes/builds which makes spells targetting fort even more of a no-brainer in this case.
But it's been a while since I played KM tbh.

The difference it makes at end game is not huge, it's only a small difference. Won't completely invalidate your builds. The way it changes the early game is huge though. Trust me you want to try this mod. You could always uninstall it at endgame if you like.

Hmm. To be honest I don't find early unfair that problematic except for the Aldori mansion and that technic league encounter. I'll think about it. Modpage says there is a bunch of bugs related to the inspect function, that's pretty annoying.

 

[volklore]

(Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

What is the spell level used for the concentration check on touch of chaos (to avoid AOO). In WoTR domain zealot allows you to bypass that entirely but I think I remember you do trigger a concentration check to avoid AOO for regular touch attack domain powers? Wondering If I'd need combat casting on Harrim or my hypothetical madness domain inquisitor.

 

[Yosharian]

Doesn't this scaling diff modifier mod make typically strong KM strategies even stronger compared to the rest in the late game ?

Which mod are you referring to, exactly?

And why would it make certain strategies stronger?

''Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level'' That's the only challenge mod right, beside your toybox setting that give enemies more hp ?
Not sure how much I like this. The late game balance kinda allows non-min maxxed builds and classes do to good on unfair. For example, wild hunt stuff has low fort and other saves are pretty high, getting extra diff modifier on top of that means their strong save could get into unreachable territory for some classes/builds which makes spells targetting fort even more of a no-brainer in this case.
But it's been a while since I played KM tbh.

The difference it makes at end game is not huge, it's only a small difference. Won't completely invalidate your builds. The way it changes the early game is huge though. Trust me you want to try this mod. You could always uninstall it at endgame if you like.

Hmm. To be honest I don't find early unfair that problematic except for the Aldori mansion and that technic league encounter. I'll think about it. Modpage says there is a bunch of bugs related to the inspect function, that's pretty annoying.

Nope, no bugs.

 

[Yosharian]

(Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

What is the spell level used for the concentration check on touch of chaos (to avoid AOO). In WoTR domain zealot allows you to bypass that entirely but I think I remember you do trigger a concentration check to avoid AOO for regular touch attack domain powers? Wondering If I'd need combat casting on Harrim or my hypothetical madness domain inquisitor.

Scales with level, CC is irrelevant past a certain point

 

[Desiderius]

(Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

What is the spell level used for the concentration check on touch of chaos (to avoid AOO). In WoTR domain zealot allows you to bypass that entirely but I think I remember you do trigger a concentration check to avoid AOO for regular touch attack domain powers? Wondering If I'd need combat casting on Harrim or my hypothetical madness domain inquisitor.

Been a long time since I've played. I remember doing some testing and finding something to be buggy about it, but later it wasn't an issue?



This is the only shot I can find of that testing. You can see the Casting Defensively check failing, which may account for the chunk of Harrim's life missing. Linzi was testing to see if Haze of Dreams was single target Slow (it isn't) and Jub if he could do some Archery to save Bombs (it's pretty bad).



Here it looks like I was trying Fighting Defensively to see if that helped (attacking vs Touch offsets the penalty and gives +3 AC in any event) but hard to tell since Combat Log gets pretty jumbled. AoO is at top of log, but not a big problem since Harrim has +4 AC vs Giants. Also used Stunning Barrier on him so actually wanted to get attacked to trigger it (it stays on until it stuns something).



By this point Casting Defensively checks are less of an issue even without Combat Casting IIRC. Even without Vestment stacking he'd be clear of everything but nat 20. Touch of Chaos changes that to two nat 20s and gives disadvantage on saves.



On this one Fighting Defensively bonus is up to get to 48AC. Should be enough for even the bigger Cyclopses later in the dungeon who have +28AB IIRC.

In Trobold you'll get some AoOs but with inherent +4 AC and Giantslayer Clasp he can get enough AC not to sweat them. Similar function as Protective Luck but also debuffs saves.



This is CotW with Harrim as Sacred Fist that fits his companion quest better. As you can see a little OP there. Killed Unfair Harg multiple times with Stunning Barrier from Harrim.



I even splashed Inquisitor on him for Cunning Initiative since the Domain stacks and it gets his initiative up so that he can get Touch (and Fighting Defensively AC) applied before target attacks. Or just control spells. With Touch he can just focus on tanking and casting and not worry about attacking at all.



His Will Saves are good too for running point in VTomb vs the Priests in the back casting Holds.

 

[Desiderius]

(Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

What is the spell level used for the concentration check on touch of chaos (to avoid AOO). In WoTR domain zealot allows you to bypass that entirely but I think I remember you do trigger a concentration check to avoid AOO for regular touch attack domain powers? Wondering If I'd need combat casting on Harrim or my hypothetical madness domain inquisitor.

Scales with level, CC is irrelevant past a certain point

Touch isn't CC in any event. Debuffs attacks and saves, turns on Fighting Defensively to tank. Allows Harrim to tank in areas where his bonuses turn on so you can play conventionally (party-based, instead of voltronning or rocket tag) if you want. P:K doesn't have Mythic stuff so game isn't trivialized until later.

 

[volklore]

(Harrim Touch of Chaos gives Disadvantage on Saves and attax).

What is the spell level used for the concentration check on touch of chaos (to avoid AOO). In WoTR domain zealot allows you to bypass that entirely but I think I remember you do trigger a concentration check to avoid AOO for regular touch attack domain powers? Wondering If I'd need combat casting on Harrim or my hypothetical madness domain inquisitor.

Scales with level, CC is irrelevant past a certain point

Touch isn't CC in any event. Debuffs attacks and saves, turns on Fighting Defensively to tank. Allows Harrim to tank in areas where his bonuses turn on so you can play conventionally (party-based, instead of voltronning or rocket tag) if you want. P:K doesn't have Mythic stuff so game isn't trivialized until later.

He meant Concentration Checks I think