Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[hell bovine]

So, considering the high enemy encounter rate and all the reasons to not rest often, is a full caster even worth it? I'm rolling with an Enchanter and I'm pretty much just loading up on wands, spells are way too valuable.

Depends on the caster type. My druid so far has been a walking barkskin dispenser, while Ms. Piggy does all the work. With a serpentine sorceress on the other hand (and currently with Tristian multiclassed as one) even low level enchantments were very useful, because of the bloodline ability. If you get lots of undead later on in the game(?), then the undead bloodline would be very useful too.

edit: For the same reason I could see a feyspeaker/serpentine sorcerer working, because spell dc is based on your casting stat and not caster level. And if they ever fix the "no armor" cleric, one of these mutliclassed with an empyreal sorcerer.

 

[Shadenuat]

Pure caster can solo endgame encounters.

Honestly after level 5 you already dominate and after levels 9-12 Wizard is unstoppable.

The way level progression goes in this game (i.e. every build should be theorycrafted to about level 15, that's when you have to be strongest) there are no companions that gain Arcane spells as fast as Wizard, and noone hits power thresholds as good as pure Wizard. Even Octavia with her pretty good build for a companion always feels like she is lagging behind a pure Wizard, and even with low amount of scrolls Wizard still plays better than a Sorc because every level gained is more important. You can probably screw around even more by running a party of 5 characters with XP sharing off to push yourself just a little bit over the edge and gain level 8 and even level 9 spells faster.

And if they ever also fill all the gaps in scrolls, pure Wizard would go from great to faceroll everything. They'd have to add some counters like enemy casters, counter spells and protection spells because single Prismatic Spray is already enough to break enemy encounters now. And Wizard + Octavia / Wizard merc is just too much, bosses boil like potatoes to twin Hellfire Rays etc. They tried to stack on many enemies a lot of Spell Resistance but you can still overcome it reliably enough (and some spells just ignore it).

 

[hell bovine]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

 

[Haplo]

A question about Slashing grace. How does it interact with Agile weapons?

Overlaps? Unless you dual-wield, then slashing grace should be off.

 

[Yosharian]

Agile Rapier should be finessable. Not sure about stacking these two for 2x damage, though...

 

[oldmanpaco]

Why are there patches released twice a week for this game? Is it still that buggy?

 

[Haplo]

Agile Rapier should be finessable. Not sure about stacking these two for 2x damage, though...

Yes, the game likes throwing those at you. The sidekick of the boss of the first chapter uses one and immediately at the start of Chapter 2 you can buy a +2 version.

 

[Shadenuat]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

Learn level 1-3 scrolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>...

buy 9 level and learn 9 level scrolls.

exceptions exist but this is how it goes more or less.

 

[Haplo]

Agile Rapier should be finessable. Not sure about stacking these two for 2x damage, though...

I see three ways of adding Dex to damage: Slashing/Fencing grace, Agile weapons or Rogue 3. I wonder which is the optimum option. Also, Sword saints get too few spells per rest. It is sad. Eldritch Scion is too powerful with a dex2dam build I think compared. What is going on for Sword Saints is the free weapon focus.

And Int to AC (they have the potential to be best tanks). And the Critical feats. And the initiative.

 

[ArchAngel]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

Learn level 1-3 scrolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>...

buy 9 level and learn 9 level scrolls.

exceptions exist but this is how it goes more or less.

In ToEE when I had two wizards I would pick completely different spells, then scribe scrolls and exchange them between them. But this game does not have even that. We could do this trick with Octavia.

 

[Haplo]

Agile Rapier should be finessable. Not sure about stacking these two for 2x damage, though...

I see three ways of adding Dex to damage: Slashing/Fencing grace, Agile weapons or Rogue 3. I wonder which is the optimum option. Also, Sword saints get too few spells per rest. It is sad. Eldritch Scion is too powerful with a dex2dam build I think compared. What is going on for Sword Saints is the free weapon focus.

And Int to AC (they have the potential to be best tanks). And the Critical feats. And the initiative.

Remember that this is at the cost of losing the Armour. If there are great armours in the game then it is not the best way. Also, all this costs a lot of feats and loses some magic flexibility in the way.

That doesn't stop him from being a top AC character - if you decide to build him this way. Sure, it costs a lot.

 

[hell bovine]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

Learn level 1-3 scrolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>...

buy 9 level and learn 9 level scrolls.

exceptions exist but this is how it goes more or less.

All it would take is adding one arcane merchant to your barony. Less blood, more merchants dlc!

 

[ArchAngel]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

Learn level 1-3 scrolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>...

buy 9 level and learn 9 level scrolls.

exceptions exist but this is how it goes more or less.

All it would take is adding one arcane merchant to your barony. Less blood, more merchants dlc!

Who knows, we might get one by the time game releases.

 

[Haplo]

That doesn't stop him from being a top AC character - if you decide to build him this way. Sure, it costs a lot.

true. But the Scion also gets +5 to natural armour, a bonus that will stack with everything when patches fix the bugs. To add to that a dip into the scaled fist will pile on top Cha to AC as well.

I think it's rather less then that. If you pick Draconic Bloodline +4 max I think, if they follow Pathfinder rules. And at level 15 at that, which is apparently almost end-game territory. Before that its a measly +2.
I think it may be even capped at +3 in Kingmaker. A Sword Saint gets way more (like +6-9, depending on Int score).

And you keep ignoring the critical and initiative abilities, which seem pretty cool also.

 

[Shadenuat]

and even with low amount of scrolls

Are they really that limited? I like my archmages pokemon style: gotta have 'em all; a wizard with limited spell selection just doesn't feel like one. And I even found a nice necromancer portrait.

Learn level 1-3 scrolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>...

buy 9 level and learn 9 level scrolls.

exceptions exist but this is how it goes more or less.

All it would take is adding one arcane merchant to your barony. Less blood, more merchants dlc!

Who knows, we might get one by the time game releases.

Well there is that Irlene Artisan but you know them bugged lazy shits

 

[Zero Credibility]

I think vanilla magus is better than scion or saint, at least when it comes to spells. Vanilla magus has spell recall.

 

[Lawntoilet]

A question about Slashing grace. How does it interact with Agile weapons?

Overlaps? Unless you dual-wield, then slashing grace should be off.

Hmm. I am planning a sword saint build and need to choose a weapon. Is there a finessable weapon in the game that is agile?

There are a whole bunch of rapiers (as mentioned), a few daggers, at least 2 dueling swords (one of which is the best endgame Agile weapon as far as I've seen), and at least 1 (but probably more) estoc that are Agile. The earliest Agile weapon you'll be able to find is the light pick at Old Sycamore.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Agile weapon is not really a necessity, unlike in the P&P, Slashing & Fencing Grace work for a magus here.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Agile weapon is not really a necessity, unlike in the P&P, Slashing & Fencing Grace work for a magus here.

Yeah. The question is which is better.

There are really good scimitars, so Slashing Grace (Scimitar) is definitely strong for a Magus. However, there are enough good Agile weapons (mostly rapiers, but also that awesome endgame dueling sword) that this probably equally viable.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

For the record that whole stuff with AT not adding their levels to damage dice of spells is not true, at least not for all spells, in my game Octavia does add her W and AT lvls for damage spells like fireball for instance. It doesn't work with her Telekinetic Fist though, there apparently only her W levels count.

 

[ga♥]

So, considering the high enemy encounter rate and all the reasons to not rest often, is a full caster even worth it? I'm rolling with an Enchanter and I'm pretty much just loading up on wands, spells are way too valuable.

My Necromancer does well in my run. For some combats I just pew pew with a cantrip and let the fighters deal with stuff but when times comes to shine my character can do stuff others cannot.
Also game does not have a full sorcerer, wizard or druid companion so it is useful to be one of those.

I am in chap IV, at lvl12. I have a conjurer as main char plus Octavia. Tbqh it feels like Octavia is pretty much enough, and probably earlier I would have suffered less if instead of Octavia (or my main char) had Black Man Archer.
Magic is usefull, but that's it. Just useful, not central like in BG2.
I am keeping Octavia mostly for the trickery atm.

I have no idea if things change later on, but I suspect they won't.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Agile weapon is not really a necessity, unlike in the P&P, Slashing & Fencing Grace work for a magus here.

Yeah. The question is which is better.

Depends on the magus. If you're playing a sword saint you need fencing/slashing grace at level 1 or else you'll be gimped for nearly the whole first chapter.

If you're playing a normal magus or an eldritch scion, there is no good answer because you'll have moments where you feel like an idiot either way. I took fencing grace for estoc (not a great idea since there aren't that many of them) and I kick myself every time I find an agile weapon. On the other hand, if I hadn't taken fencing grace, I'd be kicking myself every time I found a cool non-agile rapier or estoc or scimitar. FOMO is inexorable.

 

[panda]

Octavia becomes really strong when she gets AT lvl 10.

 

[sebas]

I have no idea if things change later on, but I suspect they won't.

Yeah, I'm just going to start over with some sort of Magus build. There's just way too much meat for the grinder to put up with dragging a wander around just for some help in hard fights. If only you could scribe scrolls. Or at least find more of them. Hell, I'd even go Scroll Savant then.

Anyway, back to the drawing board for a new build.

 

[Elex]

All it would take is adding one arcane merchant to your barony. Less blood, more merchants dlc!

maybe the scrolls are only bugged.
scrolls are not the only strange lacking items, many weapons barely appear in the game, at some point you find a javelin +2 later a dart +5 some weapon appear barely one time in the looots/merchants.

game have toons of weapon but 90% are focus feat traps.
game need real crafting.