Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

You don’t have shitty BAB with Shatter, that’s the whole point. Frigid Touch is a really good spell against foes with a lot of attacks. There’s no save.

Cleave isn’t that good without Reach. Are you saying Finish is trigger even when you don’t Cleave? I guess first turn you move + Cleave, then next turn you full attack but I prefer just using Charge.

Other great Feats are Improved Initiative, Shake it Off, and a Metamagic to give you something good to cast in level five.

 

[Alrik]

You don’t have shitty BAB with Shatter, that’s the whole point. Frigid Touch is a really good spell against foes with a lot of attacks. There’s no save.

Cleave isn’t that good without Reach. Are you saying Finish is trigger even when you don’t Cleave? I guess first turn you move + Cleave, then next turn you full attack but I prefer just using Charge.

Other great Feats are Improved Initiative, Shake it Off, and a Metamagic to give you something good to cast in level five.

Yes, Finishing Cleave always activates. I'd post a screenshot but I don't have enough KKK's to upload images to a post.

I had completely disregarded metamagic since Intensify isn't in without mods and I don't consider the SS a caster at all, but that's an interesting proposition if lv5 is useless. I picked Shake it Off on Jaethal since she didn't qualify for Outflank on her first TW feat, so that's a good option since it's already in the party. II has been great on Linzi for early CC but I felt it might be overkill on a SS that already gets INT-to-initiative on lv7.

Re BAB I'm talking about progression, you lack total attacks per round - not actual attack bonus, so anything that gives extra attacks is good. My actual AB is higher than full BAB Amiri and can easily become stratospheric with Arcane Accuracy.

 

[Desiderius]

By not a caster I mean not having to beat saves not casting in combat. You’ve still got a wide selection of buffs, and you can be your party’s Haster (Speed doesn’t stack with Haste).

There’s a couple Weapon Enhancements you want to buy with Arcana (like Bane) but I usually just get Keen with Enhancement (take Enduring at six) and skip Improved Crit.

 

[Desiderius]

Spellstrike gives you an extra already at level two. Don’t get me wrong, big fan of AoOs since they get full AB, but SS gets enough attacks that stuff is usually dead before they’d miss another.

Haplo is the master. You should be talking to him.

 

[Desiderius]

Maximized Mirror Image does work.

 

[Haplo]

Arcane Strike is garbage, and especially for Saints who have other things to do with their Swift actions. You need to think another order of magnitude damage-wise if this looks good to you. Looks like there's five or six good Feats you're overlooking. This isn't a game where one or two Feats are good and the rest aren't worth looking at.

Kinda disagree about this. I mean, admittedly it does little in combats that matter the most (since you use Arcane Accuracy or a Quicken True Strike or some such there). But there are lots of "regular" fights and Arcane Strike is pretty huge there: up to +5 damage, that gets multiplied on crits. That's a lot of damage over 5 iteratives... Note Weapon Enchantment doesn't collide with Arcane Strike: you do it outside combat (and after Enduring it lasts a long time).
Still, it is one of the feats to trim in a feat-intensive build, true (for example it you want both GVS and ICF).

 

[Haplo]

Will Imp. Critical be worth it down the line or am I being retarded? It doesn't stack with Arcane Weapon - Keen, but it does free up that slot for for other effects (the in-game text promises speed at some point, which is supposed to be +1 APR).

IMO for a SS, who is bound to one weapon, Improved Crit is eventually worth it in order to make room for more enchantments (Holy/Axiomatic/Ghost Touch, even +d6 elemental, sometimes Speed or Brilliant can be a consideration; Bane has a separate "AP budget"). Obviously low priority and again, could be trimmed in a feat intensive build.

 

[Haplo]

Maximized Mirror Image does work.

Picking Maximize would rather be a waste, though - with Lesser Maximize Rods, Robes of the Leviathan.

Empower could be worth considering. 2 levels are a more reasonable sacrifice. Then you can use a Rod/robe to Maximize and get guaranteed 150% damage.

 

[Yosharian]

Arcane Strike is garbage, and especially for Saints who have other things to do with their Swift actions. You need to think another order of magnitude damage-wise if this looks good to you. Looks like there's five or six good Feats you're overlooking. This isn't a game where one or two Feats are good and the rest aren't worth looking at.

Kinda disagree about this. I mean, admittedly it does little in combats that matter the most (since you use Arcane Accuracy or a Quicken True Strike or some such there). But there are lots of "regular" fights and Arcane Strike is pretty huge there: up to +5 damage, that gets multiplied on crits. That's a lot of damage over 5 iteratives... Note Weapon Enchantment doesn't collide with Arcane Strike: you do it outside combat (and after Enduring it lasts a long time).
Still, it is one of the feats to trim in a feat-intensive build, true (for example it you want both GVS and ICF).

The thing that pisses me off about Arcane Strike is that it keeps turning itself off when you use other abilities that also use Swift Action. Instead of intelligently understanding that I want it on at all times except for when my SA is being used. I don't want to have to manually enable it every time. This alone makes the feat garbage for me

 

[Desiderius]

Maximized Mirror Image does work.

Picking Maximize would rather be a waste, though - with Lesser Maximize Rods, Robes of the Leviathan.

Empower could be worth considering. 2 levels are a more reasonable sacrifice. Then you can use a Rod/robe to Maximize and get guaranteed 150% damage.

Fifth level spells are bad so not missing much. Use Empower Rod with Max Image and have twelve of yourself.

 

[Alrik]

Saints aren't casters..

Realized what you referred to now, I wasn't talking about the SS but the "backline caster" to use DD. Seems to me from what I've read that it is at best a secondary approach to applying shaken or other fear effects, so it seemed expensive for a non-SD character such as a backline caster to get. Ergo, is it worth the Focus+DD investment for a character that wouldn't have use for WF otherwise?

Kinda disagree about this. I mean, admittedly it does little in combats that matter the most (since you use Arcane Accuracy or a Quicken True Strike or some such there). But there are lots of "regular" fights and Arcane Strike is pretty huge there: up to +5 damage, that gets multiplied on crits. That's a lot of damage over 5 iteratives... Note Weapon Enchantment doesn't collide with Arcane Strike: you do it outside combat (and after Enduring it lasts a long time).
Still, it is one of the feats to trim in a feat-intensive build, true (for example it you want both GVS and ICF).

I think you made a very good case for GVS with Bastard Swords and it gels well with my Blitzkriegesque playstyle, so the plan is to go that route. My first act as baron was to go to the Verdant Chambers alone to see what would happen (Nyrissa just called me retarded), managed to solo the whole thing bar the flytrap at lv5 (admittedly with a few reloads and resorting to abuse of the Perfect Strike/Critical glitch) due to being able to deliver massive damage upfront. For some reason the garden gnomes were more difficult than the Owlbear, though I couldn't use Arcane Strike on them and I only had one MI left at that point which might explain it.

ICF seems like it would be very useful when you're fighting Enlarged with the added reach (and the huge damage), but the less useful Great Cleave tax is a hindrance. Though I guess it will still come in handy on the move+attacks.

 

[Alrik]

For some reason the garden gnomes were more difficult than the Owlbear, though I couldn't use Arcane Strike on them and I only had one MI left at that point which might explain it.

Arcane Accuracy, not Arcane Strike.

 

[Desiderius]

The Redcaps have DR/Cold Iron and their crits do x4.

Yeah the non-Saint Shatter question is a good one. The other issue is Undead Immunity to Shaken.

When I play Magi I’m committed to Full Attacking with Spellstrike so it’s good for me to overcome Spellstrike penalty and land iteratives but I don’t bother with Shatter on Two-handers anymore unless I can pick it up via Combat Style.

 

[Alrik]

When I play Magi I’m committed to Full Attacking with Spellstrike

That's why Bastard Swords seems to be by far the best focus for a SS, since it's the only weapon that has 1h and 2h weapons. You can take a smaller one for Spellstrike iteratives or load up on damage dice with a large one when you feel like painting the room with a single blow (though I feel like the extra damage from the large one would always be preferable to the extra attack at higher levels when you already have a decent APR, finishing cleave etc.). The only drawback for the class is the crit range/multiplier, which will be mitigated in WotR with the Improved, Improved, Improved Critical Improved feats and Trick Fate. Guaranteed GVS crits with a Large Bastard Sword at an absurd multipler for three rounds. That they are aesthetically pleasing is just sugar on top, having tried an Estoc Dex Saint I can say that this is not an irrelevant factor.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah the non-Saint Shatter question is a good one. The other issue is Undead Immunity to Shaken.

On the other hand, name me more then 2 undead that were even slightly difficult to hit (where these 2 are named boss mobs)?

 

[Desiderius]

The Devourers and Ghosts. Main use of Shatter is for iteratives and those aren’t guaranteed on Bloodbeasts and the like.

 

[Haplo]

The Devourer? Must say I don't even remember him. Teneborous Depths, perhaps? Haven't played that.

Ghosts? They have 19-20 AC, I think. Their 50% damage immunity is the issue, not their AC. That and their touch attacks + Dispelling and Crippling Strikes.

 

[Desiderius]

There are five here and there, usually well hidden with good rewards. If you have Ghost armor you've beaten at least one.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Haplo]

Yep, I think I've beaten one. But, as we can see on your screen, once the entire party gangs up on the poor fella, his odds look pretty bad.

But okay, that's the third undead mob with above-average AC.

Still, enemy AC isn't a primary concern when fighting most undead in Kingmaker. So I can live with being unable to Shatter them. Shatter still serves me well against 80% of enemies.

 

[Desiderius]

I guess what I'm saying is at that point I was ganging up on everything even without Shatter, or even without the gang:

If you need it on Hunt Bloody Beasts or whatever will also be a slog.

 

[Testownia]

Desiderius Delterius Haplo I need help from you fine gentlemen... how do you REMOVE mods? I tried out the "Kingmaker AI" one, didn't like it, deleted it from the mod folder... and now EVERY SINGLE save from when that mod was installed crashes. Maybe I'm missing something basic, but any help, from anyone, would be appreciated.

 

[Broseph]

I’m a popamole consoletard that used to play a lot of CRPGs in high school. I’m trying to get back into RPGs but found that I lost a lot of my skills over the years and pretty much suck now. What’s the most OP build in this game that’s also strong in the early game and doesn’t take a lot of time to become OP? Help me out here. Preferably something tanky so I can play a bit carelessly and soak up a lot of damage.

Also, helpful tips and strats and stuffies would be appreciated :3

 

[gurugeorge]

Desiderius Delterius Haplo I need help from you fine gentlemen... how do you REMOVE mods? I tried out the "Kingmaker AI" one, didn't like it, deleted it from the mod folder... and now EVERY SINGLE save from when that mod was installed crashes. Maybe I'm missing something basic, but any help, from anyone, would be appreciated.

I'm not sure you can. It's the big downside of many PFK mods, they get baked into the saves and you have to go back to a save before you put them in if you're not happy with them.

But give the AI mod a chance, it just means you have to be more aggressive with your melee guys, so that they grab mobs attention (and mobs will pay attention to solid melee damage dealt). Also position so that mobs either physically can't scoot straight for the backline or will get lots of attacks of opportunity if they do (having a cleric with a reach weapon and the relevant feats in the middle of the formation helps a lot with that). There's no taunt in the game, but it isn't really needed. If you do that, then it becomes less predictable, and that's the idea: to keep you on your toes.

 

[Xamenos]

I’m a popamole consoletard that used to play a lot of CRPGs in high school. I’m trying to get back into RPGs but found that I lost a lot of my skills over the years and pretty much suck now. What’s the most OP build in this game that’s also strong in the early game and doesn’t take a lot of time to become OP? Help me out here. Preferably something tanky so I can play a bit carelessly and soak up a lot of damage.

Also, helpful tips and strats and stuffies would be appreciated :3

I will share with you the answer to your question, the secret that will let you faceroll the game like you want:

Spoiler

Lower the difficulty to easy.