Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Cael]

On a related note I wasn't able to get the Quicken rod working properly. Dunno why. Just seems to cast things like a regular spell.

If you are a spontaneous caster, Quicken doesn't work for you because applying metamagic to a spontaneous spell increases its casting to full round (unless it already takes longer). Quicken will just bring it back to normal speed.

Unless, of course, Paishit fucked it up as it is wont to do.

 

[NJClaw]

On a related note I wasn't able to get the Quicken rod working properly. Dunno why. Just seems to cast things like a regular spell.

If you are a spontaneous caster, Quicken doesn't work for you because applying metamagic to a spontaneous spell increases its casting to full round (unless it already takes longer). Quicken will just bring it back to normal speed.

Unless, of course, Paishit fucked it up as it is wont to do.

Quicken Spell:

[...]

Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell’s casting time.

And in 3.5 you just had to take a tax feat, Rapid Metamagic:

Rapid Metamagic
( Complete Mage, p. 46)

[General]

You possess an uncanny mastery of your magic, enabling you to modify spells on the fly much faster than others can.

Prerequisite
Spellcraft 12 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast spells,

Benefit
When you apply a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, the spell takes only its normal casting time.

Normal
Spontaneous casters applying metamagic must either take a full-round action (if the spell normally requires a standard action or less) or add a full-round action to the casting time (if the spell takes 1 full round or longer to cast).

 

[Cael]

On a related note I wasn't able to get the Quicken rod working properly. Dunno why. Just seems to cast things like a regular spell.

If you are a spontaneous caster, Quicken doesn't work for you because applying metamagic to a spontaneous spell increases its casting to full round (unless it already takes longer). Quicken will just bring it back to normal speed.

Unless, of course, Paishit fucked it up as it is wont to do.

Quicken Spell:

[...]

Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell’s casting time.

And in 3.5 you just had to take a tax feat, Rapid Metamagic:

Rapid Metamagic
( Complete Mage, p. 46)

[General]

You possess an uncanny mastery of your magic, enabling you to modify spells on the fly much faster than others can.

Prerequisite
Spellcraft 12 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast spells,

Benefit
When you apply a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, the spell takes only its normal casting time.

Normal
Spontaneous casters applying metamagic must either take a full-round action (if the spell normally requires a standard action or less) or add a full-round action to the casting time (if the spell takes 1 full round or longer to cast).

In other words, Paishit fucked it up.

 

[NJClaw]

In other words, Paishit fucked it up.

Allowing to do something for free doesn't sound like a fuck up, since before it just required you to waste a feat. But yeah, I'm all for bashing Paizo, fuck those motherfuckers.

 

[Cael]

In other words, Paishit fucked it up.

Allowing to do something for free doesn't sound like a fuck up, since before it just required you to waste a feat. But yeah, I'm all for bashing Paizo, fuck those motherfuckers.

It does, because it makes a spontaneous caster a no-brainer compared with the memoriser when it comes to more limited campaigns, like in a cRPG.

And yes. Paishit should be bashed, simply because of the fucking fanboi cunts.

 

[Yosharian]

I was under the impression that Kingmaker didn't incorporate the penalty for spontaneous metamagic

 

[Haplo]

I was under the impression that Kingmaker didn't incorporate the penalty for spontaneous metamagic

Sure its there. Just less noticable due to abundance of rods, maybe.

 

[NJClaw]

I was under the impression that Kingmaker didn't incorporate the penalty for spontaneous metamagic

Sure its there. Just less noticable due to abundance of rods, maybe.

But rods shouldn't affect spontaneous casters' casting times (link):

[...]

A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).

 

[Haplo]

I was under the impression that Kingmaker didn't incorporate the penalty for spontaneous metamagic

Sure its there. Just less noticable due to abundance of rods, maybe.

But rods shouldn't affect spontaneous casters' casting times (link):

[...]

A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).

Well, THAT doesn't work, AFAIK. Spontaneous casters can use metamagic rods just fine. Honestly, it kinda makes sense to me. Maybe they should be a little bit more limited, though...

 

[Yosharian]

I was under the impression that Kingmaker didn't incorporate the penalty for spontaneous metamagic

Sure its there. Just less noticable due to abundance of rods, maybe.

But rods shouldn't affect spontaneous casters' casting times (link):

[...]

A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).

Well, THAT doesn't work, AFAIK. Spontaneous casters can use metamagic rods just fine. Honestly, it kinda makes sense to me. Maybe they should be a little bit more limited, though...

Well when I tested it with a Quicken rod it didn't work

 

[Yosharian]

Restarted the game and going to play as Sage Sorc in turn based. Think stats were 10 str, 13 dex, 12 con, 20 int, 10 wish, 10 cha.

Took improved initiative and spell focus illusion as the feats. Seems like the major questions for a full Sorc build will be what spells to take. Took Grease and Shield for now.

These are the spells I take on my Conjuration/Evocation/Necromancy Sorc

1st: Grease, Mage Armor, Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile
2nd: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Blindness
3rd: Haste, Displacement, Stinking Cloud, Communal Resist Energy
4th: Animate Dead, Greater False Life, Dimension Door, Communal Protection From Energy
5th: Animal Growth, Icy Prison, Vampiric Shadow Shield, Cloudkill
6th: Chains of Light, Sirocco, Undeath to Death
7th: Legendary Proportions, Finger of Death, Waves of Exhaustion
8th: Seamantle, Protection From Spells, Frightful Aspect
9th: Wail of the Banshee, Fiery Body, Mass Icy Prison

 

[Haplo]

Missing Create Pit and its upgrades. They are easily some of the best spells.

Stormbolts is the best damage spell.

Hellfire Ray and earlier Scorching Ray can be boss killers.

Phantasmal Web is solid.

Battering Blast can be fun.

 

[Yosharian]

Missing Create Pit and its upgrades. They are easily some of the best spells.

Stormbolts is the best damage spell.

Hellfire Ray and earlier Scorching Ray can be boss killers.

Phantasmal Web is solid.

Battering Blast can be fun.

I don't use COTW so I don't have pit spells

Stormbolts and those ray spells are decent, I just don't bother with them because everything dies too fast anyway

I took Phantasmal Web previously but I just never ended up using it soooo... Icy Prison has crazy DC on my Sorc so I just that whenever I need some disable

No idea what Battering Blast is, never saw that

 

[NJClaw]

I don't use COTW so I don't have pit spells

I don't use COTW either, but I do have them.

They are in the Arcane Unleashed free DLC:

 

[Yosharian]

Wait what

 

[Yosharian]

Ok this explains a lot, I thought I had this installed but apparently I don't

 

[NJClaw]

Wait what

Yeah, a free DLC that you have to manually download. I guess auto-downloading it for everyone would have broken some feats.

 

[Yosharian]

Wait what

Yeah, a free DLC that you have to manually download. I guess auto-downloading it for everyone would have broken some feats.

Oh well, something for my Lawful Evil playthrough I guess

 

[Sergiu64]

So the reason I was going Illusion was cause I like save or die spells and Illusion seems to have the only ones. But yeah, I'll probably restart as Conjuration specialist and start picking up Illusion focuses at later levels once I try this again. Too busy with my Krondor LP and the kids at the moment.

 

[Desiderius]

Pit Spells are pretty much die or die. Main challenge is staying out of them yourself.

Battering Blast originally triggered AoOs on your own team, even when the target was helpless.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Rinslin Merwind The only metamagic feat worth taking is Heighten unless you're pushing a very specific gimmick. Metamagic rods are abundant by the time you have high enough spell levels to actually utilize your metamagic feats.

 

[Desiderius]

Can only use one rod at a time. CotW has Feats and Background to make up for Spontaneous problems but easier to just stay Wiz or Psychic. But yeah the Feat that unlocks when you have three Meta Feats is fun IIRC. Nice build up to thing.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I will concede somewhat. Empower is a good secondary choice to Heighten. I would end it there though. While I normally love Extend Spell, metamagic rods for that are everywhere. Maximize and Quicken are traps in any game. There are some cool things that can be done by layering metamagics, but after a certain point, it's better to just using a higher level spell. I can't say I needed to eek out any kind of strategy that required layering metamagics. The particular problem with layer metamagics, is that most foes which would merrit such contrived tactics will either be immune or have saves high enough to make the DC spread risky. Casters also suffer for lack of feats, and the ability to lean on rods in order to use those feats on other things is an opportunity I take advantage of.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm with you but Wiz gets five extras and CotW has other cool Metas.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Oh, is this in context to CotW? I must have missed that. I haven't used mods on PFKM, yet. My comment should only be regarded with the base game. There are many excellent metamagics in PnP (and mods apparently) that aren't in PFKM.