Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

I disagree. The important capstone for an AT is getting Surprise Spells at AT level 10. Before that, he's mostly focused on single-target and CC. Afterwards, he can delete whole encounters with the likes of Stormbolts (again, far superior to other damage spells - barring Hellfire Ray for single targets, of course). Also the capstone makes dual damage no save spells, such as Vulcanic Eruption, A LOT stronger.

I joined the RPGCodex to (wrongly) argue in favor of a Rogue4/AT build for Octavia. Hap and crew and Captor hitting my party with Icy Prison, Mass showed me the error of my ways. It's not weak by any means, but it's far from the strongest thing you can be doing. Now I can't quit Nenio. It's just such a pain to try to beat SR and Saves without max caster lvl.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I joined the RPGCodex to (wrongly) argue in favor of a Rogue4/AT build for Octavia.

A man with a mission. Glad you stayed around though.

 

[Desiderius]

I disagree. The important capstone for an AT is getting Surprise Spells at AT level 10. Before that, he's mostly focused on single-target and CC. Afterwards, he can delete whole encounters with the likes of Stormbolts (again, far superior to other damage spells - barring Hellfire Ray for single targets, of course). Also the capstone makes dual damage no save spells, such as Vulcanic Eruption, A LOT stronger.

I don't argue that it's important, but I've found that I don't care as much about it when my empowered lightning bolts and dragon breaths hit for 100+ damage at levels 8-10. And scorching ray can score these numbers:

Lol after Jub did his Linzi imitation it didn't matter.

 

[Desiderius]

OK, Greta, I'm feeling sorry for you given what Modi has planned. Better?

 

[NJClaw]

Delterius Desiderius Is it just my first impression, or is Halcyon Druid outright superior to every other Druid archetype?

You lose your animal companion AND spontaneous SNA casting, so it definitely isn't a no-brainer. You also lose wild shape, so you can't benefit from stuff like Mirror Image like a Feyspeaker. You get access to some Wizard spells, but lose almost everything that makes you a Druid.

 

[Delterius]

Delterius Desiderius Is it just my first impression, or is Halcyon Druid outright superior to every other Druid archetype?

You lose your animal companion AND spontaneous SNA casting, so it definitely isn't a no-brainer. You also lose wild shape, so you can't benefit from stuff like Mirror Image like a Feyspeaker. You get access to some Wizard spells, but lose almost everything that makes you a Druid.

It feels like a reverse Magaambyan Initiate with a... better?... version of Cleric's spontaneous casting. You don't have to convert spells into just healing but any spell with the Good descriptor. If you wanted to be a full on nature caster without shitting in the woods or becoming a furball, this is the way.

 

[Sjukob]

Guess the name is Volcanic Storm. A Fire version of Ice Storm, really.

And it double dips on Sneak dice?

The spell deals some physical and some fire damage, both will proc sneak attack independently from each other.

 

[Testownia]

Delterius Desiderius Is it just my first impression, or is Halcyon Druid outright superior to every other Druid archetype?

You lose your animal companion AND spontaneous SNA casting, so it definitely isn't a no-brainer. You also lose wild shape, so you can't benefit from stuff like Mirror Image like a Feyspeaker. You get access to some Wizard spells, but lose almost everything that makes you a Druid.

Yeah, I didn't notice that you lose the animal companion, unless you go about it using Animal Ally and take a leopard.

 

[Sjukob]

Lol after Jub did his Linzi imitation it didn't matter.

Arcanist gnome seems to be an unmatched DC caster, especially with their racial trait that gives them additional +1 DC to their illusion spells.

These shadow spells are pretty weird, the description says that they are not affected by spell resistance and the spell will actually work on wisps, but if the target has numeric spell resistance and not spell immunity, the caster still has to roll the dice to overcome it.

Magaambyan initiate has a considerable downside that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere or I just didn't notice it. Casting spontaneous druid spells will drain your arcane reservoir and the higher level the spell is, the more points it will drain, so you can run out of juice very quickly.

 

[Testownia]

By the by, gentlemen - is there any other divine/arcane hybrid class/archetype other than Mystic Theurge?

 

[Gahbreeil]

Is Paladin/Bard at all viable? Should I go with paladin only? What build would offer me the easiest gameplay?

 

[Yosharian]

Is Paladin/Bard at all viable? Should I go with paladin only? What build would offer me the easiest gameplay?

The only reason you would dip Bard on a Paladin is to get Mirror Image and Uncanny Dodge. Mirror Image can be gotten with a feat if you're playing with COTW. Uncanny Dodge is useful but Paladin isn't really a tank class, you're better off using a reach weapon and focusing on damage and healing.

 

[Sjukob]

By the by, gentlemen - is there any other divine/arcane hybrid class/archetype other than Mystic Theurge?

If you play with call of the wild mod you can go for a witch class, her spellbook is a mix between divine and arcane spells. Arcanist archetype - magaambyan initiate can learn a spell from a druid spellbook each time he levels up, this can go all the way up to level 9 spells. Mind that his divine casting will be severely limited, see my post above for the explanation.

 

[Daidre]

Magaambyan initiate has a considerable downside that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere or I just didn't notice it. Casting spontaneous druid spells will drain your arcane reservoir and the higher level the spell is, the more points it will drain, so you can run out of juice very quickly.

He can refill his Arcane Reservoir with Consume Spell ability. And losing one-two higher level spells is barely dents spontaneous caster. Arcanist needs CHA anyway for exploits and with hat of Mental Perfections easily gets 4-5 refills out of it even with mediocre CHA (~12-14). Actually, I had run Magaambyan initiate through 50+ floors of rogue-like dungeon and only used it once to Heal my insane cleric after spending all points on buffs.

 

[Testownia]

Thank you for the input, gentlemen. In other words, MT is the only one with two spellbooks simultaneously?

 

[Gahbreeil]

The only reason you would dip Bard on a Paladin is to get Mirror Image and Uncanny Dodge. Mirror Image can be gotten with a feat if you're playing with COTW. Uncanny Dodge is useful but Paladin isn't really a tank class, you're better off using a reach weapon and focusing on damage and healing.

I wanted to RP a lot with a DPS Paladin with a two-hander or a bastard sword. Won't my aggro overpower the tank's? Won't Uncanny Dodge help in staying alive?

 

[mediocrepoet]

The only reason you would dip Bard on a Paladin is to get Mirror Image and Uncanny Dodge. Mirror Image can be gotten with a feat if you're playing with COTW. Uncanny Dodge is useful but Paladin isn't really a tank class, you're better off using a reach weapon and focusing on damage and healing.

I wanted to RP a lot with a DPS Paladin with a two-hander or a bastard sword. Won't my aggro overpower the tank's? Won't Uncanny Dodge help in staying alive?

The game doesn't have any MMO aggro/threat mechanics. There's limited AI regarding target swapping, but generally, things will focus on whatever enters their aggro radius first. So send in whoever you want them to focus on first and then send anyone else after.

 

[Gahbreeil]

So send in whoever you want them to focus on first and then send anyone else after.

Thank you, I was playing on easy doing story mode tactics. Who is the best tank character if I may ask?

 

[mediocrepoet]

So send in whoever you want them to focus on first and then send anyone else after.

Thank you, I was playing on easy doing story mode tactics. Who is the best tank character if I may ask?

Well, the best conventional tank sort of character is Valerie since you can armour her up and she's built for that type of role and the tower shield specialist starts getting all sorts of bonuses to defenses when using tower shields, including bonuses to touch AC which will be more important later in the game. She'll take to hit penalties from the tower shield until level 5 of the tower shield specialist though, but it might not matter much on the easy difficulty level.

 

[Gahbreeil]

Well, the best conventional tank sort of character is Valerie since you can armour her up and she's built for that type of role and the tower shield specialist starts getting all sorts of bonuses to defenses when using tower shields, including bonuses to touch AC which will be more important later in the game. She'll take to hit penalties from the tower shield until level 5 of the tower shield specialist though, but it might not matter much on the easy difficulty level.

Brilliant, this is bound to help me out, any other tips for having Octavia, Linzi, Valerie, Amiri and Tristian in the team? Thanks in advance.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Well, the best conventional tank sort of character is Valerie since you can armour her up and she's built for that type of role and the tower shield specialist starts getting all sorts of bonuses to defenses when using tower shields, including bonuses to touch AC which will be more important later in the game. She'll take to hit penalties from the tower shield until level 5 of the tower shield specialist though, but it might not matter much on the easy difficulty level.

Brilliant, this is bound to help me out, any other tips for having Octavia, Linzi, Valerie, Amiri and Tristian in the team? Thanks in advance.

Well, since I assume that you're new to Pathfinder and probably D&D, when you level up, there are icons indicating feats that are recommended and not recommended which can help you level up. You can also choose the auto level up. If you'd like to look around at more options, then go ahead. I think it's best to get an idea of what each class and prestige class does and see if there's anything that you want to aim for.

Before that, I'd probably just focus each one on the class they start with to get a feel for what they do.

Octavia is a rogue/wizard that can easily move into the arcane trickster prestige class which will help her with both magic and rogue sorts of activities. Otherwise, I'd just level her up as straight wizard.
Linzi is useful continuing as a bard since that provides a lot of skills and buffs. You'll probably want to focus on raising charisma.
Valerie's usual path is tower shield specialist and/or stalwart defender. Personally, I prefer keeping her as tower shield specialist. You'll probably want to raise strength and dexterity.
Amiri is a barbarian and continuing along that path will help by giving her additional rage abilities and duration. You'll probably want to focus on raising strength and using two handed weapons.
Tristian is set up to be a healing specialized priest and is very good at that. You can focus on raising wisdom and should try and keep him out of melee. You could focus on ranged or reach weapons, but probably most of the time, you'll want to use his spells and special abilities.

There are all sorts of things you can do with those characters and most of the tips in these threads are about the more unusual things you can do, but if you're just learning the system, it's easy to become overwhelmed. So I would recommend trying to just play them as given at first and getting a feel for the game and system. If you want to try other things after that, you should. If you have the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC, it adds a large dungeon that can be played in a stand alone mode where characters level more quickly than in the normal campaign. This can help you try out new ideas and see how other classes work.

 

[Yosharian]

The only reason you would dip Bard on a Paladin is to get Mirror Image and Uncanny Dodge. Mirror Image can be gotten with a feat if you're playing with COTW. Uncanny Dodge is useful but Paladin isn't really a tank class, you're better off using a reach weapon and focusing on damage and healing.

I wanted to RP a lot with a DPS Paladin with a two-hander or a bastard sword. Won't my aggro overpower the tank's? Won't Uncanny Dodge help in staying alive?

Well, Enlarge Person / Legendary Proportions helps a great deal keeping melee characters out of trouble, if you really insist on using a non-reach weapon.

But something like Serpent Prince would do just as much damage as any other 2-hander, and allow you to basically not think about AC at all.

'Aggro' isn't really a thing in Kingmaker. As long as units aren't in 2ft range, they won't be prioritised. Some monsters will seek out squishy targets, but they tend to go for your weaker characters, and they're somewhat rare.

Tanking with AC is somewhat of an all-or-nothing affair, either you really invest in it or you might as well not bother. So no, Uncanny Dodge isn't useful unless you're really putting effort into tanking.

A Paladin makes a really effective damage dealer and healer, so I recommend you go with Fauchard. If you don't want to spend the feat, Bardiche is also good.

 

[Gahbreeil]

Well...

I've played D&D yet have never played Pathfinder. I just couldn't ever get into the technical stuff and when I was wasting my entire life away as a teen playing the original Neverwinter I cared only about the storyline and dialogue.

Well...

It needs to be a cool character and I don't like polearms, never did except for DA2 where they introduced the staff sword. I can already figure it out and the advice was very helpful, thank you.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Gahbreeil Polearms are great in PFKM. Don't discount them. If you're not trying to compound sneaks with dual wielding, or tanking with a shield, polearms an ideal melee weapon type to go with. You will get more DPS from the reach AoO and 2handed damage bonuses/power attack than any single handed weapon while staying further away. There is even a holy polearm that fits very thematically with a Paladin. My only word of caution against them, is that the Cleave action in KM does not take the weapon's reach into account. Lame, but tolerable.

 

[Desiderius]

Cleave does, still only six feet. Enlarge yourself. Paladin doesn’t have feats for cleave anyway.

Paladin isn’t really a tank, but this isn’t really a tanking game. Does good damage, good saves and immunities, at its best vs hardest foes.

Bard makes whole team better.