On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[Esquilax]

C, but don't forget we very well could have lost the battle without him.

So? It wasn't any one thing that decided it for us and this guy's bullshit is quickly beginning to be more trouble than it's worth. You could just as easily make the case that we could have lost the battle without our javelins, good battlefield positioning that allowed us to utilize our spear's reach advantage to its fullest extent, and the superior tactics that allowed our bear friends to wreak havoc on their flanks. In my mind, those factors were every bit as important as our Wielder's increasingly less reliable magic. Our cunning won us this fight.

Even being outnumbered, we managed to wipe them out almost completely while losing ~40 of our own. That is still a significant number of warriors to lose, but we nevertheless managed to inflict probably three times as many losses than we received.

Anyway, once we get rid of our resident loon, let's aim for a balanced, pantheon like moderate religion that tries to use all the elements, ok?

Speak for yourself. Keep your false inanimate gods, after this battle, I have decided that the Obsidian Embers need a new god. One that is fierce, noble, brave, majestic, and... extremely cuddly:

 

[Kalin]

B)urn them all!

 

[oscar]

Well from the text I take it that he killed around 10 to 20 of the beastmen, and one of his apprentice's killed the giant. Perhaps we still would have won, but it would have been a lot bloodier for us.

We really need to get that obsidian supply flowing again. This battle has proven that ranged obsidian weaponry can be really effective against these guys. Though we really need to learn what sort of numbers these guys are around in. Because while we did win today, it came at a cost our tribe can't afford to repeat.

 

[Monty]

C

And now we have two iron axes (or steel, not sure as the end of act 1 implied humans had been more advanced before) so we can experiment with these, perhaps chop a few trees etc.

As far as the wielder goes, I agree we have to come up with a plan to deal with him now. I still don't regret us not killing him when he first returned though, as the main reason for keeping him was this barbarian threat. He helped us deal with them and has now proved that 'magic' exists and has spread this knowledge around our tribe instead of keeping it to himself. Before we were blindly worshiping our camp fires and even that lesser tribe from the mountains implied we knew nothing about the spirit world. So I think if we get rid of him now (probably not easy, but it wouldn't have been easy earlier either) we will be left a stronger tribe for the experience.

 

[Urist McLurker]

C for the vote.

About the wielder of fire.
I am firm supporter of the fire spirits but he needs to die. Now he has helped us win what will hopefully turn out to be a crushing victory, but now that we have no looming threat for which keeping him around for is a good idea, it seems like a very bad idea to keep him around.

However, much more importantly than that, I do feel we face a far bigger problem than the fire wielder being a crazy shit who wants to murder us all in our sleep/kill the council. I don't think a single one of us suspected he'd turn out to be a true bro.

The real issue is the other tribes. We've met four? other tribes so far. We know this barbarian tribe had this giant - I think he was 'created' to be the alpha male by the way -, the plains tribe has this seer that can see the future, and we have a wielder of fire. Two of the tribes didn't have any magical being(as far as we know). That means three out of the five tribes we've come in direct contact with(counting our own tribe)have had a supernatual being(s) or power(s).
I don't like those odds. Removing our supernatural weapon might be very dangerous, though of course we shouldn't be acting like Fox News here with fear talk like that, but we need to keep it in mind.


From what I see, there's one very important thing to keep in mind when it comes to the elements: None of the tribe could control the powers of fire until the gem and the fire wielder came around.
We can destroy the gem and the fire wielder at the same time.We know the fire wielder is dangerous for sure though. The gem however is another matter, we shouldn't destroy it as soon as we can, like I said, we know the wielder is crazy but we don't know if the gem is what has made him crazy.

Let us not forget that the wielder came in direct contact with some epic magic without any kind of pacing and survived a volcano exploding in his face while wading through magma. The gem seems to be what's giving him power, but it might be a spirit or something making him crazy. We can kill him, and then find out if the gem is fucking us over or not before destroying it. Destroying what appears to be the source of the fire magic(the gem) might mean that any and all that have learnt to control fire magic will lose their powers. I really want to stress that we shouldn't destroy them both in one go when it makes more sense to test the gem out and find out whether or not we can keep it just in case it is what's giving us power, when there's no harm in keeping it around. If it turns out the wielder can't be killed without destroying the gem or something then sure destroy it.

 

[ScubaV]

C

I supported the Wielder in the beginning, but I agree that something has to be done about him. Hopefully, we get one of those free choice updates soon and can deal with him while he's still weak. I still think it's a good thing we kept him this far though. If we rejected him in the beginning he probably would have stormed off with a few dozen of our most ardent fire worshipers and vowed revenge. I also think this battle wouldn't have gone nearly as well without him and the apprentices. Finally, assuming we can off him and retain the apprentices as loyal tribe members, we will have gained access to fire magic that we wouldn't have had without him (or at least not for a very long time). The apprentices (and obviously others) know the basics. Through experimentation and training they should be able to increase their skills and train others in turn.

 

[oscar]

But is it the gem that grants us this power to wield fire? I don't think we know enough about how this whole business works to put an axe in our walking artillery piece. We need him.

Hopefully the water worshippers will find something that can be used to balance the Fire Wielder (though hopefully this discovery will occur in a less destructive way than a volcano erupting).

 

[Cassidy]

Anyway, once we get rid of our resident loon, let's aim for a balanced, pantheon like moderate religion that tries to use all the elements, ok?

Speak for yourself. Keep your false inanimate gods, after this battle, I have decided that the Obsidian Embers need a new god. One that is fierce, noble, brave, majestic, and... extremely cuddly:

Fixed

 

[Jick Magger]

C. Admittedly, the wielder's got some 'splanin to do now, but we can't get rid of him just yet, not after we've lost half of our effective fighting force. We'll assess what we're up against from those scouts then start planning on what to do next.

Speak for yourself. Keep your false inanimate gods, after this battle, I have decided that the Obsidian Embers need a new god. One that is fierce, noble, brave, majestic, and... extremely cuddly:

Of course bears are cuddly, just ask Timothy Treadwell.

 

[Vernydar]

I'm not denying that he has been useful for now. I did say from the very start that he would be. But it's clearly not worth it now.

I do not want to wake up one morning with all the council and all the water shamans dead because of a coup.

As for the gem, I think the gem is extremely dangerous. Let us not forget, the wielder was normal until he saw the gem. The gem spoke to him and he went to pick it up

From update 24:
"The fire spirit... it is strong here. Much stronger than I ever felt it... it is calling to me..."

The gem called out to him. The gem is the very source of the problem. And the whole calling to me, come on, how many times have you seen it in literature? Need I just name the One Ring?

 

[Tigranes]

Why is he 'clearly not worth it now'? He was clearly worth the gamble before; now, that we see he is certainly doing things behind our back, but also that he is for now loyal and extremely effective in battle (let nobody play down his critical contribution, he's probably more responsible for the victory than any other single factor, though it was of course a combination of those factors); so now we have to think about how long to keep him alive, and how to get rid of him but still retain a capacity to use the gem and research its power. Throwing him off a cliff now will just screw us over the next time a giant or some other major force comes at us.

Vernydar often speaks sense, but goes too far - if we had listened to him on every update we would be prevaricating for decades, making slow progress on things then getting trampled by the nearest opponent, delighting over three new types of edible tree-roots instead of having the possibility to do something with this power of fire. We might kill the Wielder eventually, but we surely cannot throw the gem into the sea and forget about it all. We need to keep the Wielder alive long enough in order to find out as much of what he knows as possible.

For the next free update, in fact, perhaps a good time-honoured strategy is to use a beautiful female tribesman/councillor as a spy.

For the current choice, yes, it seems almost suspicious of curufinwe to give us these options. I would actually have voted B if our army had been more intact (or if we had any form of cavalry, etc), since it is not in a battle the enemy is broken and the spoils are won, it is in the aftermath of chasing them down and raiding their homes. If we let them go now, even if this was their main army, we would face another tough conflict if we were to push ahead. For that has to be the goal, no? Instead of defending our homes, letting the perpetrators go, to rebuild their strength and attack us once again. I vote C for now, but we need to regroup as quickly as possible, and based on what the scouts tell us, be prepared to attack. (Perhaps that will also give us interesting opportunities to use the Wielder and also dispose of him.)

Vote C

 

[Vernydar]

Vernydar often speaks sense, but goes too far - if we had listened to him on every update we would be prevaricating for decades, making slow progress on things then getting trampled by the nearest opponent, delighting over three new types of edible tree-roots instead of having the possibility to do something with this power of fire. We might kill the Wielder eventually, but we surely cannot throw the gem into the sea and forget about it all. We need to keep the Wielder alive long enough in order to find out as much of what he knows as possible.
For the next free update, in fact, perhaps a good time-honoured strategy is to use a beautiful female tribesman/councillor as a spy.

I will admit that I am a firm believer of logic, and very often prefer the long term strategy over a gamble. Of course, since sometimes gamble do pay off, that is not always the optimal solution. So, yes, I'm not always right

But I am really creeped out by the fire gem, see the phrases I quoted above, it really reminds me too much of the evil, powerful, controlling artifact. If we do get rid of the Wielder, but keep the gem, I think another Wielder shall soon be around. Or even worse, a number of "mini-wielders" so to speak, less outstanding but equally dangerous.

I am in favor of learning more if possible, but I think the beautiful spy/courtesan is not going to work. First, the wielder seems devious. Second, he's a fanatical priest and as such likely not interested in women enough for that strategy to work.

 

[Vernydar]

We really need to get that obsidian supply flowing again. This battle has proven that ranged obsidian weaponry can be really effective against these guys. Though we really need to learn what sort of numbers these guys are around in. Because while we did win today, it came at a cost our tribe can't afford to repeat.

Since curufinwe never said anything about it stopping, I suppose that the volcanic eruption is still going on. That would make obsidian.... hard to get.
Curufinwe, can we know from here if the eruption is still going on or not?

If so, we might have better luck looking around in the hills, and maybe if we find metal trying to uncover the secrets of its crafting.

 

[Internet]

Post #1335 will be long remembered in the tribe's history as the first time the glorious bear cavalry saw the fields of battle

The wielder is possibly even more trouble than expected: 1) he seems to be controlled by some kind of malignant being; 2) he is secretly training people to prepare a coup.
We need to try to get rid of him before he starts a civil war (send him to battle as often as possible with his apprentices and hope he finds a glorious and convenient death).

Also, C.

 

[Jick Magger]

If you want to get rid of him, then I'd suggest you instead assess just how farspread his influence is through the tribe. This one warrior is almost certainly not the only one, and attempting to kill him could possibly lead to all of them roasting us in our sleep. I'd try to appeal to his sense of duty to the tribe, try to get a basic idea of just how many people have been trained in secret, just what he's telling them, and then figure out what to do from there.

I don't know if he's dangerous enough to kill just yet, but we should definitely try to get a basic idea of what he's trying to do.

 

[Hirato]

Voting C

 

[newcomer]

If you want to get rid of him, then I'd suggest you instead assess just how farspread his influence is through the tribe. This one warrior is almost certainly not the only one, and attempting to kill him could possibly lead to all of them roasting us in our sleep. I'd try to appeal to his sense of duty to the tribe, try to get a basic idea of just how many people have been trained in secret, just what he's telling them, and then figure out what to do from there.

I don't know if he's dangerous enough to kill just yet, but we should definitely try to get a basic idea of what he's trying to do.

I totally agree with this. I believe that killing him politically is a much better solution than assassination, and carry far less danger. Much better if we can change his nature, but who knows? Though if you desperately want to kill him, there's a big lake nearby & let him ride a sinking boat.

 

[Curufinwe]

Since curufinwe never said anything about it stopping, I suppose that the volcanic eruption is still going on. That would make obsidian.... hard to get.
Curufinwe, can we know from here if the eruption is still going on or not?

If so, we might have better luck looking around in the hills, and maybe if we find metal trying to uncover the secrets of its crafting.

Well. You still see, far to the south, the occasional column of smoke. Nothing comparable to the initial eruption, but something is still going on down there.

 

[Vernydar]

Since curufinwe never said anything about it stopping, I suppose that the volcanic eruption is still going on. That would make obsidian.... hard to get.
Curufinwe, can we know from here if the eruption is still going on or not?

If so, we might have better luck looking around in the hills, and maybe if we find metal trying to uncover the secrets of its crafting.

Well. You still see, far to the south, the occasional column of smoke. Nothing comparable to the initial eruption, but something is still going on down there.

If so, I think obsidian is realistically out for a while. Once we can, we should try for metal

 

[Stygian Lurker]

Voting C

 

[TOME]

C

And kill the Wielder while he sleeps and get rid of the gem. Everything has been downhill since the decision to not to stop the keeper getting the gem.

 

[Curufinwe]

Alrighty. Close to everyone voted for option C. Let's see what these scouts have to say.

The scouts were immediately sent with orders to follow the escaping beastmen, remain unseen and report back whatever they would find.

Five men in total were sent, it was all we could spare from the effort of bringing back the wounded and burning the dead. The scouts would be back with their reports, but this is a tale for another day.

In the meanwhile, the Wielder of Fire had seemingly slipped into a profound slumber. He would not wake up, no matter what was attempted. The militia commander sent back a runner to the elder council, reporting on the secret training activities and waiting for orders.

The council convened immediately and there was great costernation about the news. The Wielder had seemingly trained other people, who knows how many, in the communion with the fire spirit, bestowing upon them greater powers than those granted to the official apprentices.
It was a clear violation of the council orders. Something would need to be done.

A. One of the keepers of fire stood up: 'Although the Wielder is the patriarch of my order, he flaunted tribal authority with his behavior. The laws of the tribe are clear on this point, he should be stripped of all his authority, his gem sequestered, his talents used for trivial and dangerous tasks. The same destiny should fall on his secret followers, once they're found.'
B. Another keeper angrily rose: 'What he does, he does for the good of the tribe. He trained other people, so what? He is just cultivating talent, making us stronger. Without him the beastmen would have slaughtered our militia to the last man. He should be chastised by the council at the worst, but nothing more.'
C. A former warrior spoke next: 'We were warned about his unreliability by many in the council over the last years. From what I hear, he has fallen in a sleep from which he is not waking up. Although this was never done before, he is much too dangerous to be left alone. Let's kill him while he sleeps, and get rid of the problem. Who knows how much support he could gather, even amongst us, if he were to come back to find himself chastised or, worse, stripped of his gem and responsibilities. His secret followers should instead be made to serve the tribe, there's no reason to kill them.'
D. One of the water shamans spoke last: 'It is clear that fire religion is a treacherous religion. I agree that we should kill him, but we should go further. We should kill his secret followers and banish fire worship from our tribe. Nothing good has ever come from it.'

 

[Cassidy]

C

Like Machiavelli said, if you want to harm someone, do it in a way he will never be able to take revenge for it. And it's obvious there is something terribly wrong with this fire wielder.

 

[Vernydar]

C

I don't even need to explain why. This is our chance. This is our ONLY chance. It's even written there: Who knows how much support he could gather, even amongst us, if he were to come back to find himself chastised or, worse, stripped of his gem and responsibilities.

He's a menace. He's insane. He went behind our backs. He has secret followers. He's sleeping, weak, vulnerable. Kill him now.

And besides, he WILL know we discussed whether to kill him or not. And he won't like it.

 

[Omicron]

Flip-flopping to A