OMG! There is some intelligence at the Escapist!

[Grunker]

The comments! The comments!

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding

Seriously? Are you joking or what? RPG's have always been about the grind.

Grinding is to RPG as Bullets are to FPS.

That made me sad.

 

[PorkaMorka]

BG2 was really quite good about enemy diversity, even the though encounter design was often uninspired.

They benefited from reusing a lot of sprites from other Infinity engine games, plus the game just had absurd levels of content overall.

Pretty poor example, when at least 90% of RPGs are more vulnerable to the criticism regarding repeated enemies.

Not that there is anything wrong with repeated enemies, as long as the combat system and encounter design can keep things fun.

 

[1eyedking]

Why didn't I criticize these things more?

I actually think it was because the game induced me into a mindless state of being. I vaguely recollect going to Town A, talking to a bunch of statue NPCs, doing some miniquests, and being there nothing else to do entering the area's dungeon and opening door after door after door and having the same encounter over and over. An hour or two passed, and I finished the dungeon. Fake C&C at the end. Go buy new items, gotta keep up with level-scaling.

Then I went to Place B, talked to a bunch of static NPCs, did some vaguely familiar sidequests, and having nothing else to do entered the area's dungeon and opened door after door after door...

 

[Balthamael]

I actually think it was because the game induced me into a mindless state of being.

I don't think it was the game that did this, but...such beliefs do bring a comfort of sorts, and who am I to take it away from you. Whatever takes you through the night.

 

[1eyedking]

Shit, there's so much fail in the Escapist forums it's not even funny.

Thank God the Codex is nothing like th- FUUUUUUCCCKK.

 

[DreadMessiah]

Liar. Bullshit. r00fles!

Also BG 2>>>>>>DA. Get what I need to and bounce.....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Person actually sounded intelligent up to that.

 

[Balthamael]

Shit, there's so much fail in the Escapist forums it's not even funny.

Thank God the Codex is nothing like th- FUUUUUUCCCKK.

Yeah, sad, isn't it. I am just no good at funny insults, or any kind of comedy for that matter. But it doesn't matter. I firmly believe that if I see someone building a pedestal for themselves, it is my duty to topple it. I think if everyone held to the same duty the world would be a better place. You might thank me later, or perhaps not. Either way is fine.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Why didn't I criticize these things more?

Well, I recall you being kind of busy getting things wrong and making stuff up.

 

[Martin]

Errr about BG2

I never tried DA but personally I found BG2 nauseating. I mean there were interesting touches and the game had a very large amount of content and some interesting locations which I suppose was what made me try to finish it twice, but for some reason I gave up
before finishing it the two times.

This probably has alot to do with me disliking straight DnD adaptations to pc rpgs in general though. That is I dont like DnD in pc rpgs at all the and ruleset used in BG2 was crude and unadequate to say the least.
I liked PS:T and I could say it has for example inferior combat mechanics among other shortcomings compared to BG2 but despite all the PS:T ad hoc crap it still made for a superior game that was interesting and intriguing from start to finish.


There is one thing every sensible and adult rpg fan should agree on is that BG2 was full of...well silly, and cheesy, and lots and lots of absurd and childish moments, alot of them originating from what some people call the "deep multidimensional characters of BG2" like i.e. your party members. I think I read something like this in a BG2 review. I suppose some of these cases could be defended as attempts at humor, but if they are they are rather pathetic.

Seriously, the BG2 party members are ridiculous as are alot of the NPC's you interact with and some situations you come across, I recognize some expections here and there where the game introduces you to some interesting concepts but these exceptions only make the general childish tardness of the BG2 characters and the rest more infuriating.

Some may think this is a matter of taste but I dont agree. How can you appreciate the elements of a supposed epic RPG and get an interesting and rewarding sense of atmosphere and immersion in a game that keeps confronting you with dialog sentences and character "personalities" that seem designed to amuse 12 year olds?

Just my two cents but getting back on topic I dont see how DA could be much worse even by today's mediocre standards and all that.

 

[DreadMessiah]

Lies. Bullshit. r00fles. Also MoraN. Pretty Princess alt detected.

 

[SCO]

I'm not seeing the intelligence in the forums there.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

One other advantage to BG that was probably mentioned but didnt have Kaanyr Vhok's example was the bystanders that could be killed. I remember fighting a mage in that brothel and seeing a few whores get fireball cooked. Beat Marcus melting a kid in FO 2.

 

[Melcar]

BG2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DA:O

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Thing is, while I consider the combat in Dragon Age more interesting than that of Neverwinter Nights 2, I also think there is a shit-ton more filler fights in Dragon Age.



The closest comparable dungeons are the Orc Caves, but there are only a couple of them in NWN2. In DA, there are quite a few more than that.


If I didn't enjoy backstabbing people, I'd think this a pretty big negative. As it is, I just consider it an annoyance.

 

[bonch]

Again, the guy went to a temple contorlled by cultiists and then he whines when the majority of enemies he faces... are cultists... WTF?

I realize you're adhering to a schtick, but he's not complaining about the type of enemies he's facing. He's complaining about repetitive encounters with them.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Thing is, while I consider the combat in Dragon Age more interesting than that of Neverwinter Nights 2, I also think there is a shit-ton more filler fights in Dragon Age.

I'm playing Mage of course, and I spam the same few spells I know again and again and again throughout the whole game, because that's all I can do, spam the same few spells over and over. And you call that more interesting than NWN2? Dragon Age "tactical combat" is a joke, that much is certain.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Thing is, while I consider the combat in Dragon Age more interesting than that of Neverwinter Nights 2, I also think there is a shit-ton more filler fights in Dragon Age.

I'm playing Mage of course, and I spam the same few spells I know again and again and again throughout the whole game, because that's all I can do, spam the same few spells over and over. And you call that more interesting than NWN2? Dragon Age "tactical combat" is a joke, that much is certain.

Well, I find the Rogue gaming experience more interesting. Got bored the time I tried playing one in NWN2. Whereas Dragon Age's still keeps me interested. I try simply running up and playing 'faster Warrior', and get my ass handed to me. Rogues in DA have to use some of their other abilities, and go for that backstab. Whereas Neeshka could just slug it out most of the time.


I will admit that I liked NWN2's mages better.

 

[kris]

Um, there's under a dozen beholder's in the Beholder Lair. It's quite a small place. The cultists temple is huge. In other words, it's TOO BIG for its purpose.

There is nothing wrong with the size, in fact most here would have complained if it had been small. Now it is still true that DA have a lot of repetition when it comes to enemies though. In fact the whole gameplay is revolved around fighting and in several situation were you think you might even have solved things peacefully... you get a fight.

Well, I'm in the middle of DA right now and it's a good game so far, but one thing is crystal clear : BG2>>DA.

Too much repetitiveness in da and a worse combat system than BG2.

I can't see how anyone could claim BG2's combat is better than DA. IMO it is not even close.

 

[Tycn]

Re: Errr about BG2

There is one thing every sensible and adult rpg fan should agree on is that BG2 was full of...well silly, and cheesy, and lots and lots of absurd and childish moments, alot of them originating from what some people call the "deep multidimensional characters of BG2" like i.e. your party members. I think I read something like this in a BG2 review. I suppose some of these cases could be defended as attempts at humor, but if they are they are rather pathetic.

DA is worse. The party banters are quite bad.

I still like warriors in BG2 more because of better magical weapons. Much more interesting with all the lore behind them. Magic goes without saying.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

OK, I can see a certain advantage of DA character system when it comes to rogues or warriors. Especially warriors. You have more to do than click on enemy and watch what happens. Or to activate knockdown once in a while.

The spell system sucks though. The most effective thing my mage can do is stop casting and toggle on Arcane Warrior and start to chop things. A clear sign they did something terribly wrong with that.
And then there's one thing that really disturbs me: that the game conceales everything, hides everything and you'll never know for certain what is going on. No combat log, nothing. Someone oneshot-kills your mage? Well you'll never know what it was because the game doesn't tell you. Fighting a revenant and suddenly everyone's at the brink of death? Did it cast a spell, if yes which one? All remains unknown. Alistair doesn't hit anything and sucks as damage dealer? I don't know why because there's no way to find out why. (like reading 12 + 8 vs AC 45 miss! - see that would show you why). All you can do is guessing. That sucks big time.

Tactical combat is more than just isometric perspective (which is often unusable due to the area or due to the fact that you don't see enough), it is having information and having options (the more the better) and DA hides the former and lacks the latter. Meh. Meanwhile the only challenge the game provides is the "challenge" to constantly supply healing. DA combat reminds me of Drakensang combat and Drakensang combat sucked. They even took encounter ideas from Drakensang (broodmother/ratmother) each a boss that calls for aid by its children several times as soon as a certain HP treshold is reached.

tl;dr : I am disappoint with DA combat and even more disappoint with the encounter design. Character system has some potential but is way too simplistic and needs more work. Spell system sucks since you only get to learn that few spells->boring.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

The comments! The comments!

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding

Seriously? Are you joking or what? RPG's have always been about the grind.

Grinding is to RPG as Bullets are to FPS.

MUST...RESIST...REGISTERING... ON... ESCAPIST

 

[kris]

The spell system sucks though. The most effective thing my mage can do is stop casting and toggle on Arcane Warrior and start to chop things. A clear sign they did something terribly wrong with that..

Uh? To say that you either have to be some kind of special person or have not played the game. Or is this some kind of poorly conveyed sarcasm that I didn't get?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

The spell system sucks though. The most effective thing my mage can do is stop casting and toggle on Arcane Warrior and start to chop things. A clear sign they did something terribly wrong with that..

Uh? To say that you either have to be some kind of special person or have not played the game. Or is this some kind of poorly conveyed sarcasm that I didn't get?

For gods sake, outline how he is incorrect on these points. This kind of thing adds nothing to an argument.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Uh? To say that you either have to be some kind of special person or have not played the game. Or is this some kind of poorly conveyed sarcasm that I didn't get?

I wasn't being sarcastic and I'm playing the game (currently I'm almost finished with the Deep Roads). I guess that means I'm a special person then.

I'll explain it in more detail:
It doesn't appeal to me that as a mage you have only a few spells and thus are forced to spam the same spells over and over. It makes things repetitive. Sure I could have 12 more spells hadn't I leveled up my class and my prestige classes (Mage,Arcane Warrior,Blood Mage), but that raises the question what's the point of these prestige classes in the first place. Even if I did I'd still not know the majority of spells. I don't think a wizard should be like this. The number of spells known and thus the number of diverse and different tactical approaches pales in comparison to other RPGs, especially D&D ones, and DA will have to live with the comparison towards DnD games. It's always the same, I blizzard the area infront of me, cast force cage on a strong critter, cast crushing prison on a weak one, cast glyph of paralyzation on a weak one, cast cone of cold on some approaching foes, then I activate Arcane Warrior and kill them with the sword because 1) it is quickest 2) you're protected best and suffer the least damage that way.
Next encounter, same story. I couldn't even do different since you can't change your spell selection. At the very least you shouldn't be required to use the points you need to pick spells to advance your class/prestige classes. That would be a significant improvement imo. Even better would be if you unlock a spell school once (the higher tier spells would unlock automatically after acquiring the prereq levels or stats) and you only buy spell slots at level up. That way I could chose for myself which spells to use in combat and you could check out way more spells. I just don't like the fact that I won't be able to cast the majority of spells, that's lame for a Mage.

 

[Chateaubryan]

Re: Errr about BG2

Just my two cents but getting back on topic I dont see how DA could be much worse even by today's mediocre standards and all that.

You're underestimating Bioware's potential for mediocrity.