OMG! There is some intelligence at the Escapist!

[Elzair]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.157649

Why do some RPG designers feel the need to make you go through fight after fight of the same fucking goddamned enemies? It's one thing to have the occasional generic bandit attack or the similar token soldier dudes here and there, but let me tell you what I'm talking about:

My first suspicions of this crap came up in a part of the game where three whole areas are each dedicated to you fighting off a horde of thugs- a bunch of melee thugs, a bunch of archer thugs, and a thug leader. They were all the same, and the fights were all excrutiatingly mundane.

Then it was all cool till later on I'm in this temple. I check the minimap and notice that this thing is huge, so I think "prepare for some nice atmospheric eye-candy" in hopes of getting sweeping, deep halls of awesomeness with some cool fights. Guess what? I get a labyrinth of the same cultist fight over and over. Every room led to a hallway that led to another room that had the same enemies: some melee cultists, some archer cultists, and some mage cultists. Every now and then there's the ever so cheesy enemy add-on (a wraith popped out of a box, here, omagawd, I didn't see this coming after it happed three times already), but that's it. I timed myself- it was an hour and a half of the same fight, over and over.

When I got to the end of the temple area I thought "okay, it's probably a room after all this bullshit and I can get what I came for and bounce." So then I discover that the final room led to a second temple-dungeon of the same size, with the same trick of repeating battles. I quit the game after four of these and asked myself "who ever thought this would be a good idea? The game could have been fantastic, but they had to throw in some grinders and loads of peppers in your face to please their grind gods."

Wouldn't it just be better if they cut that crap short and let you advance after two or three fights? Making a whole expansive labyrinth without any sense of original exploration? You know a design is horrible when you're thinking "I wish I could noclip my character through to the end and get to the motherfucking point."

It doesn't help that the combat in Dragon Age is only mediocre, but that's not part of this discussion, and it's certainly not a big complaint, either.

I expected more out of Bioware than this. Who had the idea to put it in?

Any thoughts about this? Other Dragon Age owners? Other RPG players who know the feeling?

I felt the same thing while playing it.

 

[JarlFrank]

I started playing DA and like it so far, combat is better than NWN2 and most other Aurora engine games. But yeah, already expected it to have lots of filler later on, just like NWN2. Also, it's quite obvious since the swamp and that tower in the beginning had quite a few of those encounters, too. Bunch of samey enemies ---> open door ---> another bunch of those etc etc

 

[Malakal]

Yes, I have to agree. I liked DA but combat was extremely repetetive. And temple isn't worst of it, deeproads are just... extreme.

 

[Volourn]

DA > BG2

I bet the escapist LOVED BG2 which did the same thing that DA shrugs. That ALl RPGs do - including PST, FO, ARC, BL, FF, GBG, etc.,e tc.

The guy is a hypocrite.

And, oh, to be clear:

DA > BG2

 

[Martin]

"but they had to throw in some grinders and loads of peppers in your face to please their grind gods."

Hes on to them, poor bastard he wont last long now.

 

[Elzair]

Bullshit, Volourn! PS:T did not have nearly the same amount of trash that DA has. Hell, I am playing DA and BGI back-to-back, and the contrast is stark.

 

[BlackSun]

*yawn*

 

[Fat Dragon]

Bullshit, Volourn! PS:T did not have nearly the same amount of trash that DA has.

You never played past Sigil then?

 

[Malakal]

No, I'm sorry Volourn but you are wrong. Darkspawn darkspawn darkspawn vs goblins/hobgoblins/kobolds/orcs/orogs/werewolfs/wolfweres/beholders/mind flayers/kua toa/yuan ti/sahaugians/elementals/skeletons/zombies/ghouls/ghasts/mummies/liches/vampires/drow/duergar/giberlings/ogres/trolls/outhgs(?)/mists/whatelse d&d has in store. Also I could compare case by case each and every main quest line in DA and BG2 but I don't have patience for this shit. You will have to believe my superior intellect.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Disclaimer: haven't played DA. Currently replaying BG2. I've just finished the Shadow Lord -temple. Now doing the Firkraag-questline. And Volly my dear, you are quite wrong.

The outside area had single shadows here and there - quickly dispatched, don't really matter since they are not even speedbumps. Then there is the largish battle at the entrance, where you can use the mirrors to your advantage. Whoopee, no repetition.

Then, downstairs! You got a room with dogs, room with shadows, hallway with shadows, big hall with a dragon and the Shadow Lord fight. JESUS CHRIST THE HORRIBLE REPETITION!

Level 1 of Firkraags dungeon: room with orc archers. Room with trolls and hobgoblins. Room with otugh. Room with frightened little orcs filling to spill all the secrets that you don't have to kill. Room with vampires. OH MY GOD WHAT HORRIBLE REPETITION!

So no, BG2 > DA.

 

[Volourn]

"Bullshit, Volourn! PS:T did not have nearly the same amount of trash that DA has. Hell, I am playing DA and BGI back-to-back, and the contrast is stark."

Bullshit.

Again, the guy went to a temple contorlled by cultiists and then he whines when the majority of enemies he faces... are cultists... WTF?

That's like going to the beholder lair in BG2 and whining that pretty much all you face are beholders. WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTWF WTF WTF WTF WTFW WTF WTF

Seriosuly, you guys are on fuckin' crack.

In conclusion, DA > BG2

Period.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Um, there's under a dozen beholder's in the Beholder Lair. It's quite a small place. The cultists temple is huge. In other words, it's TOO BIG for its purpose.

Why Bio couldn't do it like they did in Hordes of Underdark, where you ALSO had to gather allies - the "dungeons" weren't very large so you didn't get bored with duergar, mind flayers or beholder's because their individual parts weren't that long - but put together it was a good part of the game. Much better part than the fucking retarded Halaster-dungeon above.

 

[Hamster]

The comments! The comments!

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding

Seriously? Are you joking or what? RPG's have always been about the grind.

Grinding is to RPG as Bullets are to FPS.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

BG2 > DA

Period. (r00fles)

 

[ghostdog]

Well, I'm in the middle of DA right now and it's a good game so far, but one thing is crystal clear : BG2>>DA.

Too much repetitiveness in da and a worse combat system than BG2. Not to mention that so far each area is like one part a small hub one part big dungeon , and again. It can't reach the brilliance of the baldur's gate city, nor the awesomeness of the drow city/underdark. As for the story, so far it's meh, standard boring fantasy fare full of cliches. The only aspect that is almost as good as BG2 is the party NPC's but to tell you the truth I prefer the BG2 ones. Oh and good work has been done in the lore department , better than what was done in the story department. I guess Gaider didn't write the lore.

So, in conclusion BG2 >>> DA
Period.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I agree completly. Realism is a great litmus test. You have to ask yourself wouldnt all of those platoons get together? If I'm facing an army without real stealth why am I limited to three allies? Whats the rest of them doing in camp? Getting high?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Oh my, Volourn is raging.

 

[Jaesun]

deeproads are just... extreme.

THAT was a tad too long... too many repetitive monstar encounters.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

The comments! The comments!

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding

Seriously? Are you joking or what? RPG's have always been about the grind.

Grinding is to RPG as Bullets are to FPS.

Thats why I hate RPG fans. They are fucking idiots.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Bullshit, Volourn! PS:T did not have nearly the same amount of trash that DA has.

You never played past Sigil then?

you mean the place littered with trashy bandits that swarm you every five steps?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

DA's problem, ontop of the simplistic combat system, is that even when you fight different enemies they feel exactly the same. Darkspawn, Cultists, Assassins, Soldiers, whatever the fuck you fight, you fight in the same way. Except for a very small handful of rare enemies (like dragons and ogres), they all use the same set of skills and spells.

When you fought beholders in BG2, you fucking knew you were fighting beholders because they distinguished themselves from other enemies with their abilities, and if you weren't prepared to counter that you were raped. Ditto for vampires, drow, trolls, undead, pretty much every enemy. The only difference between humans and undead in DA is that against humans I get +5 damage but against undead I get +8.

 

[Balthamael]

I hate the retarded encounter design where you attack an enemy base and have to go room after room, killing them two or three at time. The enemies should either all join the fight immediately it begins, or prepare an ambush in some suitable location. It would also be nice if, when it becomes obvious that they are all going to be slaughtered the smartest ones would either surrender or run, but let's not ask too much.

I remember wondering, when playing the Dragon Cult part of the DA, that how do all these people live? The place was pretty high in the mountains, and feeding that army requires a lot of agriculture. Obviously a silly point to raise, but I wouldn't even have had time to think about it if the place would have been designed more sensibly.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Bullshit, Volourn! PS:T did not have nearly the same amount of trash that DA has.

You never played past Sigil then?

you mean the place littered with trashy bandits that swarm you every five steps?

That only happened in the Hive and there was plenty of great content to easily overlook that.

Curst Prison, the desert place and Baator on the other hand had nothing but constant shitty and huge zerg-rushing mobs to fight in boring caves/empty plains and nothing else to do there. Big difference.

 

[Serious_Business]

Lies. Bullshit. Also MoraN

 

[Kingston]

In conclusion, DA > BG2

Trying too hard.