Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Oblivion Matures

Nutcracker

Scholar
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
935
The only reason anyone here should care about this is because Bethesa are obviously going to gun for increased sales by trying to get Fallout 3 a Teen Rating...therefore with their new crackdown the game is going to be the lamest, most non-gritty, non-controversial, kiddy-friendly wank of a game...and nothing like the originals in terms of feel or atmosphere.

Worst part of it is you wont be able to mod Fallout 3 to any great extent...unless you personally go and see Todd "Boobies" Howard and buy his X-Rated Special Edition, the complete boxed set of which includes a semen-splattered and signed photograph of all the boys at Bethesda nude sunbathing on some island in the Caribbean, [paid for by all the ADD teens (and half the people on this board)].
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
kingcomrade said:
Sure. You misunderstood his point and I corrected you.
As far as I can tell you missed mine, which wasn't summed up in the first paragraph. I was drawing three scenes that straddled the grey area between "regula' game" and "haxored content". I was asking; "Where do they draw the line?" It is not at all cut and dry. If you read (teh hard!) -all- the way down to the end you'll see the point of my post was the same as Zomg - on the disc/not on the disc -is- cut and dry and enforceable.

IMO Halenthal was saying the opposite is true. Don't think I missed his point at all.
 

Halenthal

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
145
Location
Arkansas, of all places
As long as there are graphics, even if it's just one pixel, that are flesh colored and it's shipped on the disk, the game/application must be labeled Adults Only. Anything less would be inappropriate, as that flesh colored pixel could easily be made into nude patches or mods.

That's fair, transparent and objective. Simple, also, until you start wondering what flesh colored means. Then you realize that Oblivion has some sort of lizard race, so any game/application that has any shade of green pixel anywhere on the disk must also be labeled Adult Only. Definitely don't want naked lizards running around. (I'm really going crazy trying to remember if labeling has one L or two, but labelling just looks wrong for some reason) Oh and any game/application which has black pixels, same thing, since that might show a nude black person. Red pixels too, we don't want to see naked American Indians.

All it takes is one pixel-just ONE-and a mod, texture or mesh can be created.

About the only solution to the whole ratings mess...unfortunately it'll never happen, as it would require common sense. I kind of like the idea of the ESRB having paid professional gamers take a copy of a game the moment it goes gold and play it through with a panel reviewing the gameplay. With, say, four pro gamers, in the same room, each on their own computer. They play the game start to finish, which may take a few days, but it's worth it. The panel of about eight people which watches the gamers play makes the decision about the final rating based on the overall impression the game gave them.

Hell, who am I kidding, I just want to be one of those pro gamers :) Getting to play games the moment they go gold? Sign my ass up!

It may sound like it, but I don't disagree with the 'where do we draw the line?' question. I just believe the line should not include anything that the average gamer will not encounter, and definitely should not involve anything that requires the game to be modified, even by just changing a file name, to be accessed. The moment a game is modded, in any way, it is no longer the game that was shipped in the box, it is a new and separate entity.

Taking it one step further, what if...what if Rockstar hadn't included the Coffee Cup minigame on the disk, but released it in a later patch? What happens then? Or in the near future, Bethesda releases a full nude for everything, even the lizards, patch? The game in the box doesn't have it, so it gets a Teen rating (or Mature, even) but on the day of release there could be a patch from the devs which turn it into an Adult Only game. Should patches also be rated by the ESRB? Should mods? Renaming files and copying them? Ah, editing pictures, that should definitely be rated. Photoshop, the application itself, would earn a whole new rating above the AO level, just from its potential.


The ESRB, in my opinion, is a crutch for lazy parents. If a parent buys little Johnny a game, it's the parent's responsibility to find out what the game is and what it's about BEFORE purchasing it for their child-it's one of those parenting things that falls under the broad 'be careful what you give your child, as some things are not good for children' categories. If little Johnny has purchased the game himself, then it's the parents job to make sure little Johnny purchased something that they approve of. Do parents just go grab the first thing they see on a grocery shelf and shove it down their kids throats? No, they look at the ingredients, they check out the manufacturer, they do at least a little research, which helps prevent things like using hemmrhoid cream as toothpaste. But when it comes to computer games, for some reason there's a 'Well, it's called Playboy Mansion, but it's a a computer game, can't be that bad.' and the next thing you know, the ten year old boy has started his own (successful, even) porn magazine business using what he learned from the game.

I think the best rating system would be a sticker on every single piece of software that said "This software may contain content that you may find objectionable. Please learn more about this title through research before purchasing it.' and by banning the sale of any software to anyone under 13. Under 13, you want it, get your parents to buy it. Then if it's something that they don't like, they're the one to blame for not doing their homework before purchasing Virtual Jenna Jameson for their eight year old son.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Halenthal said:
Hell, who am I kidding, I just want to be one of those pro gamers :) Getting to play games the moment they go gold? Sign my ass up!
Not as simple as that my friend. The job consists of playing games and looking for boobies. Much tougher. :D
 

Excrément

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,005
Location
Rockville
Eventually this affair si a very good news for Bethesda.
look at news.google.com, on the front page you have 85 related links to Oblivion. they didn't get such a score even when the game was released.

so before Oblivion was well known in every video game magazine and now Oblivion is also known for the readers of :
- Washington Post
- San Jose Mercury News
- Detroit Free Press
- Enquirer
- Reuters (UK, France...)
- North Korea Time (don't they have a shortage of Oblivion over here?)

Pete Hines is a genius. I would like to know his year-end bonus...
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
14,071
Location
Behind you.
So, basically.. I try to defend Bethesda on something.. And it turns out Bethesda are actually at fault?

That's it.. NO MORE FREE RIDES FOR BETHESDA!
 

VasikkA

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
292
Location
DAC
Principles aside, I don't see Bethesda losing any money from this. The game has already been out for a couple of weeks, which is a significant time in the gaming market, and who really cares what rating a game has? At least in my country the age rating system is a joke. Excrément made a good point; any publicity is good publicity.
 

bryce777

Erudite
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
4,225
Location
In my country the system operates YOU
Nutcracker said:
The only reason anyone here should care about this is because Bethesa are obviously going to gun for increased sales by trying to get Fallout 3 a Teen Rating...therefore with their new crackdown the game is going to be the lamest, most non-gritty, non-controversial, kiddy-friendly wank of a game...and nothing like the originals in terms of feel or atmosphere.

Worst part of it is you wont be able to mod Fallout 3 to any great extent...unless you personally go and see Todd "Boobies" Howard and buy his X-Rated Special Edition, the complete boxed set of which includes a semen-splattered and signed photograph of all the boys at Bethesda nude sunbathing on some island in the Caribbean, [paid for by all the ADD teens (and half the people on this board)].

Well, there will be no drugs, that's for sure. Maybe if they called them vitamins instead? After all, you can have potions in an rpg....
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
26,884
Location
Cognitive Elite HQ
As far as I can tell you missed mine
No, I got your point. However, you said that he said that ratings would be based on upon how accessible the content is, when what he meant was that you had to change data files with a third party program (windows explorer, I suppose) to get to this content, while in your case all you needed to do was get lucky as it was in the vanilla game. Thus, you misunderstood his point and I corrected you. I never said one thing either way on either of your points.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
I wish the game was Rated X so that the ADHD demographic would be out of the TES series. Regardless, this is probably the end of this series. Now, time for Bethesda to ruin Fallout.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
VasikkA said:
...who really cares what rating a game has? At least in my country the age rating system is a joke.

In america the rating system is often ignored as well, even "family friendly" retailers like Wal-mart will carry an M game if it promises to be a good seller, such a Grand Theft Auto games. The exception comes with the AO rating. If a game gets that its off the shelves of every major retailer. Thats why this re-rating probably won't effect Oblivion the way it did GTA.

Of course, lesser known M titles face larger hurdles. I don't think Bloodlines was carried at Target or Walmart, for example. So, while ratings may not impact a consumer's desicion, it impacts retailers desicions, which acts as a kind of cencorship for publishers and developers.
 

bryce777

Erudite
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
4,225
Location
In my country the system operates YOU
Greatatlantic said:
VasikkA said:
...who really cares what rating a game has? At least in my country the age rating system is a joke.

In america the rating system is often ignored as well, even "family friendly" retailers like Wal-mart will carry an M game if it promises to be a good seller, such a Grand Theft Auto games. The exception comes with the AO rating. If a game gets that its off the shelves of every major retailer. Thats why this re-rating probably won't effect Oblivion the way it did GTA.

Of course, lesser known M titles face larger hurdles. I don't think Bloodlines was carried at Target or Walmart, for example. So, while ratings may not impact a consumer's desicion, it impacts retailers desicions, which acts as a kind of cencorship for publishers and developers.

I find it hilariously hypocrital of walmart.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,986
"As long as there are graphics, even if it's just one pixel, that are flesh colored and it's shipped on the disk, the game/application must be labeled Adults Only"

Oh really? That explains why NWN with its b00bies including bouncy b00bies and nudity was rated Teen.

R00fles!
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,986
Um... Take off your character's armour... < not that i do that , i swear >

O focurse, not much there to look at but meh.

Except Aribeth's Jiggly Tits!!!
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
GreatAtlantic said:
Of course, lesser known M titles face larger hurdles. I don't think Bloodlines was carried at Target or Walmart, for example. So, while ratings may not impact a consumer's desicion, it impacts retailers desicions, which acts as a kind of cencorship for publishers and developers.

I saw Bloodlines at more than one Wal-Mart. The standards are enigmatic.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
It's probably geographically decided. Wal-Mart in the Bible Belt (the mid-west US) probably wouldn't carry M rated games, but in the Northeast they probably would.

Fuck Wal-Mart anyway. Their stores are dirty, messy shitholes.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
HardCode said:
It's probably geographically decided. Wal-Mart in the Bible Belt (the mid-west US) probably wouldn't carry M rated games, but in the Northeast they probably would.

Fuck Wal-Mart anyway. Their stores are dirty, messy shitholes.

The Bible Belt is actually the South. The Midwest (of which Ohio is the most-Eastern state in, tends to be more mainstream protestant).

As for your evaluation of Wal-Mart, I agree that they are a bottom tier retailer. Unfortunately, they account for a very large percentage of the retail sales of any product. So, they cannot be ignored. I don't have a clue what there standards are for carrying video games though. I do know that M rated games are traditionally viewed as something that harms sales by publishers. Obviously there are exceptions and this isn't a cut and dry T= +sales.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
26,884
Location
Cognitive Elite HQ
The Wal-Mart I go to is sqeaky clean. I don't really go there for games, as they have half a rack at the back of the entertainment department with an ill-maintained billboard of "what is coming out when" (Serious Sam 2's release date is still on it). They've then got four aisles of those shelves with the glass screens for console games. Actually, there really isn't ANYWHERE in this town to shop for PC games except for Best Buy, and I'm not shopping at Best Buy. Then again, I don't buy many games, so ordering online isn't that much of a hassle.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
bryce777 said:
Well, there will be no drugs, that's for sure. Maybe if they called them vitamins instead? After all, you can have potions in an rpg....
Oblivion has plenty of drugs and alcohol. Dens full of skooma junkies. Mercenaries high on hyst sap going on murderous rampages. 20 different types of hard and soft alcohol you can use to -improve- your character’s situation. Yet none of that came up in this re-rating thing.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
kingcomrade said:
I never said one thing either way on either of your points.
Yeah. Exactly.

My first point was on one side of the grey area. It was meant to illustrate where that area lies when taken in the context of the whole posting. Was not meant to be a stand-alone statement. If you understood that you’d understand my whole post, which you clearly don’t.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Halenthal said:
It may sound like it, but I don't disagree with the 'where do we draw the line?' question. I just believe the line should not include anything that the average gamer will not encounter, and definitely should not involve anything that requires the game to be modified, even by just changing a file name, to be accessed. The moment a game is modded, in any way, it is no longer the game that was shipped in the box, it is a new and separate entity.
What about console commands? If an undocumented cheat code can enable nudity, does that count?

In Oblivion you can use the cheat console to directly edit the .ini file. What if you could use the console to change the name of a file, enabling titties? That would be no different than what you need to do to enable them in Oblivion, yet it would happen in game. Does that count?

I’ll agree that modder created content should -not- count towards a rating. As far as un-lockable content goes, the grey area between what’s “normal gameplay” and not is too grey to be enforceable.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom