Decline Now that the dust has settled, can we admit that Disco Elysium is decline?

[Yosharian]

second, the propaganda efforts of the Disco cabal of communists, socialists, and anarcho-syndicalists.

whereas anything to the right of Stalin is derided and clearly written by people whose entire understanding of right-wing ideologies comes from /r/chapotraphouse memes.

The game is also pushed and praised by the Marxist-Leninist GAMES MEDIA, which is clearly understood to be a source of decline, not only in crpgs, but in all of gaming. And yet in this instance, many on the codex are in lock step with the Lügenspielpresse. An influx of Marxist sympathizers have been slowly infiltrating this website over the last few years in a concerted effort to spread decline.

I don't have a dog in this race as I've not played the game yet and have no love for these kind of people, even though I have some mild socialist leanings myself (age seems to be slowly curing me of that but I digress). With that said, this isn't really a criticism of the game in and of itself. "I don't like the developers" isn't an argument. If left-vs-right isn't treated equally in the game then you'd have something, but you just asserted that, you didn't back it up with any actual evidence. What's more, complaining that games developers don't share your politics reminds me of the very kind of degenerate echo chamber bullshit that I come here to escape.

As for the Codex being 'infiltrated' by Marxists, this place is one of the most right-leaning forums on the internet so I don't know what to tell you there. There are clearly some far-left posters on here, but they are vastly outnumbered by right-wingers. Actually, from my point of view the Codex is one of the few places left on the net where left- and right-leaning types can actually have a decent discussion/argument about without biased moderators stepping in to treat everyone like children that need a safe space to function as human beings. Which is something rather unique, and worth preserving, in my opinion.

 

[Belegarsson]

Gosh I never felt better for enjoying a great, memorable game without caring if it fits the definition of a genre or not.

It barely fits the definition of a game.

Define what a game is then, because I definitely used mouse & keyboard to control my character, hoard stuffs, choose dialogue, solve quests, pick character skills, and... hmm, like everything I did in PS:T. Are you telling me PS:T is barely a game too?
Calling it a shallow RPG, sure. Calling it a visual novel/book/not a game, now y'all look like this =>

 

[Lilura]

Are you telling me PS:T is barely a game too?

PS:T is the second-most overrated Renaissance RPG after BG2. And yes, it's barely a game. It assaults the player with walls of text/trashtext.

[authoritative source]

 

[Valky]

Gosh I never felt better for enjoying a great, memorable game without caring if it fits the definition of a genre or not.

It barely fits the definition of a game.

Define what a game is then, because I definitely used mouse & keyboard to control my character, hoard stuffs, choose dialogue, solve quests, pick character skills, and... hmm, like everything I did in PS:T. Are you telling me PS:T is barely a game too?
Calling it a shallow RPG, sure. Calling it a visual novel/book/not a game, now y'all look like this =>

A video game is defined by having gameplay.

 

[Jenkem]

ItsChon

While the development team clearly has retarded beliefs, since when have we, an RPG forum, cared about that? You sound like all the REEEset Era and RPG Watch retards railing about @JarlFrank being a Nazi

why do you quote me pointing out the fact that there is a concerted ideological effort to push the game as incline on the codex and in the media and then respond as if I am complaining about the devs? follow along with the first paragraph of my opening post, it clearly states "The only reason it gets as much traction around here..." is because of people pushing it HERE for ideological reasons.

Yosharian

"I don't like the developers" isn't an argument. If left-vs-right isn't treated equally in the game then you'd have something, but you just asserted that, you didn't back it up with any actual evidence.

Absolutely nowhere did I even mention the developers of the game in the post you are quoting. In fact, you have taken quotes out of context to create the illusion that I've posited ideas I haven't. Classic propaganda technique.

As for your wanting evidence, plenty examples were given in the main DE thread while playing it by myself and others, also it is self-evident to anyone who has played the game with a critical eye.

DISCO ELYSIUM FANBOYS AND DEFENDERS LITERALLY HAVE TO LIE AND FABRICATE STRAW MEN TO DEFEND THEIR DIGITAL GAME BOOK.

 

[Absinthe]

Ok.
Disco Elysium is a RPG by every legitimate metric.
- The creators said is a RPG.
- It fills the requirements of the The Greater General Codex Theory of 'What is an RPG?'

Congratulations. You are an idiot. First off, I have no idea what kind of drugs you are on to consider "the devs said it's an RPG" to be a valid metric for determining something to be an RPG, but you're not only wrong; you're retarded. Second, did you seriously take Gregz's list for some kind of authoritative definition of what constitutes an RPG around here? Because there have been many definitions presented on the codex over the years and Gregz's is just one more attempt on the pile. Even beyond that, you are fucking blind if you cannot tell that stats and items and thoughts all boil down to the same shit: rolling a fucking skill in dialogues, which means that stats, items, etc. do not exist in any meaningful capacity and the only real character attribute at play here is skills. Just skills. Furthermore, there is no actual gameplay mechanism for problem-solving/conflict-resolution other than dialogues. There is also no real environment interaction beyond picking up shit, buying shit, and dialogues. What this boils down to is an "RPG" without a meaningful system of character development, without meaningful itemization, which only cares about skills (which are largely cosmetic in their effects) as you move through a linear plot and interact with the world through dialogues and only dialogues, really. In brief, there is not enough fucking gameplay, world interaction, or character building involved to make this more than an adventure game. It is too fundamentally lacking as a game.

 

[Butter]

Define what a game is then, because I definitely used mouse & keyboard to control my character, hoard stuffs, choose dialogue, solve quests, pick character skills, and... hmm, like everything I did in PS:T. Are you telling me PS:T is barely a game too?

PS:T has gameplay. Aside from the obvious point that it offers a full combat playthrough, it has puzzles and a multi-level dungeon crawl. It isn't just wandering around the 4 Hive maps passing INT and WIS checks.

 

[Dramart]

What's Disco Elysium?

 

[S.torch]

Either present some fucking rationale for your view or don't bother posting in the first place.

Ok.
Disco Elysium is a RPG by every legitime metric.
- The creators said is a RPG.

That's it, we're done here folks! I'll be here all week.

No combat, list is invalid.

They are role-playing games, no action games. They don't need combat.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Disco Disco is a great RPG, and if you don't see that, go sit with Latro in the corner.

 

[ItsChon]

As for your wanting evidence, plenty examples were given in the main DE thread while playing it by myself and others, also it is self-evident to anyone who has played the game with a critical eye.

No examples have been given. I'm about as conservative as it gets here. I wouldn't play a game that pushed that kind of shit. Whatever though. Instead of making arguments, keep bleating about fake codexers pushing communism.

The discussion around RPGs has degenerated so much, and Codexers wonder why no one talks about RPGs.

 

[Valky]

The discussion around RPGs has degenerated so much, and Codexers wonder why no one talks about RPGs.

Too busy talking about Disco Elysium to talk about RPGs

 

[Jenkem]

The Disco Elysium fanboy is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, a shill, a communist, an SJW, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Disco Elysium fanboy and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I've been found out."

 

[Lilura]

They are role-playing games, no action games. They don't need combat.

Welcome to my iggy bin, storyfag.

 

[aweigh]

Agreed. Don't these people know what adventure games are!? Mind-boggling shit.

Games like DE are very dangerous trojan horses that normalize anti-gameplay and anti-combat sentiment and promote the false idea that we want ideologically driven "stories" in our games; there is nothing more divisive than this, and it is objectively a net loss to design games this way. We must be very vigilant about this, or these people will usurp our genre right under our noses and remove everything good about it and leave it only a soulless husk that exists only as a vehicle for their pathologies.

The people who say "RPGs were always about story and gameplay was always shit!" are absolute liars, and they are knowingly lying for their own reasons. This has never been true. Do not listen to anyone who espouses ideas like this for they hate RPGs.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[RNGsus]

Calling it a visual novel/book/not a game, now y'all look like this =>

Pretty sure that's bathrobe guy.

 

[barghwata]

Is this another one of those pointless storyfag vs combat fag debates you guys love to have? neither of these two things are necessary in an RPG.

The only thing that a game has to do to be an RPG is to give you the ability to create your own character through a character building and progression system and to roleplay them the way you want. This is what tabletop RPGs were, a game master would design an encounter (either a social or a combat encounter) and the players were free to approach that encounter in any way they want by using their imagination and their character's stats. Quests, dialogue trees, skillchecks, combat systems etc...... all of these things are just tools that CRPGs use to simulate the roleplaying experience that tabletop RPGs offer on a computer, none of these things are individually NECESSARY in an RPG.

In Disco Elysuim you roleplay through dialogue trees, skill checks, perks and dice rolls; in ToEE you roleplay through combat, this doesn't mean one is an RPG and the other isn't, it just means they're two different types of RPGs.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What's Disco Elysium?

Indie Game of 2019 according to Game Awards. The chat's reaction on twitch was pretty funny.

LITERALLY WHO??

??????

WTF IS DISCO ELYSIUM

Actual good game!

RIGGED

 

[aweigh]

In Disco Elysuim you roleplay through dialogue trees, skill checks, perks and dice rolls

Adventure game.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, 2019 PEOPLE... GO PLAY ADVENTURE GAMES! EDUCATE YOURSELVES FIRST!

 

[Jenkem]

This is what tabletop RPGs were.

sorry but Gary Gygax didn't create a system to facilitate telling stories around a campfire, he created a system of using dice to determine the results of battle actions and tests of skill.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Disco Elysium is an adventure game that tries very hard to pretend it's an RPG despite its overwhelming lack of any mechanics that aren't dressed up skill modifiers for skill checks, and its skill checks are pretty much just dialogue checks at that. I think DE's alright as an adventure game, but anyone praising it as an RPG is on drugs.

Disco Elysium has no puzzles and would fit even less well in the adventure genre than it does in the RPG genre.

Disco Elysium is a RPG by every legitime metric.
- The creators said is a RPG.

Disco Elysium contains no combat (other than two or three brief scripted sequences) and little meaningful exploration; it has the character-related aspects of the RPG genre but fails to come remotely close to achieving either RPG combat or RPG exploration, and without all three a game is not an RPG.

On the other hand, Disco Elysium is the best digital gamebook since Warlock of Firetop Mountain in 2016.

 

[Lady_Error]

"The only reason it gets as much traction around here..." is because of people pushing it HERE for ideological reasons.

Looks like someone took the memes too seriously...

 

[barghwata]

...tests of skill

Yes, which includes non-combat/social skills, like the ones disco Elysium has.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG