Incline No More Puzzles

[Not.AI]

I think puzzles in games need to go away. Thinking especially in action rpgs and particularly open world action rpgs.

They either ruin pacing, and are merely annoying and boring, delay rewards and interesting progress too much, or are too easy and ruin immersion.

Locks on doors that take seconds to open by your pet cat don't feel like locks. Locks that require a boring fetch quest for five types of keys ruin fun.

Gothic style locks and the simple L / R minigame is the limit of puzzles that don't ruin anything. Better than a skill check but not annoying. Also not yet too silly. I would not consider those puzzles but just part of a seamless player-control that includes walking, running, and jumping, or hand movement in VR. That does not need to go away. Puzzles rather stick out.

Comment. Yes, quick time events are considered as puzzles. They need to go away. Same reason.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

No, not after I mastered the whole Todeswächter/Priester/Heiler/Krieger/Schreiber/Gelehrte puzzle from G2!

These kind of puzzles penalize attention deficit console plebs and thus serve the higher good.

 

[Butter]

It was really awkward when they reached the doors of Moria. Gandalf started screaming and calling the DM a nigger. Frodo tried to calm him down, telling him they'd figure it out, then Gandalf told everyone about the time Frodo had drunk dialed him at 4 in the morning looking for gay sex. He was never invited to another session with that group.

 

[Viata]

What about games that the genre is puzzle? Puyo Puyo, Tetris, Lemmings, Puzzle Bobble, etc...

 

[Covenant]

La Mulana and its sequel are good examples of how puzzles can work well in RPGs - being made to fit into the setting and letting you feel like you're gaining understanding of how some ancient fictional culture viewed the world.

 

[Eisen]

I like math in Might & Magic

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Yes to puzzles. Otherwise games would be unga bunga fighting everything all the time. Nothing wrong with a good guessing game, whatever the format.

 

[Not.AI]

What about games that the genre is puzzle? Puyo Puyo, Tetris, Lemmings, Puzzle Bobble, etc...

Obviously puzzle games that are just puzzle games are ok. (Trigger Warning: Dark Souls, Elden Ring, ... )

There is no immersion issue or pacing issue - puzzle games also tend to have good puzzles. (Tetris, Katamari Damacy, ...)

Action rpgs with puzzles tend to have shitty puzzles.

"Hey, George. We need a puzzle on this door."

"Sure, Tim. We'll just have the player collect 20 twizzlers or else it won't open. The player will have to eat the twizzlers in a specific order. Trial and error."

"Awesome."

"What's behind the door anyway? Special loot?"

"No, we're not that kind of company. It's just an empty hallway and a dead end. But the player gets an Achievement, which is needed for 100% completion."

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Thought I could live without them, then I realized I preferred having even the frogger of Mass Effect 1 to no puzzles in Mass Effect 3.

 

[Vorark]

Puzzles are tolerable as long as they aren't those bullshit pixel hunt hidden switches a la Divinity Original Sin. Oh god why.

 

[Lt Broccoli]

Puzzles could be acceptable for any number of reasons:

• The antagonist may enjoy torturing the heroes with puzzles.
• Detective scenes where the clues form a broader picture to solve a case
• A well thought and rewarding puzzle that fits the story-line can break a boring tedium to a game and solving it can bring a big dopamine rush to the player
• It simply could be the nature of that world - Might and Magic series come to mind. Can't imagine them without puzzles.

That said, simple/arbitrary puzzles installed as the game designer ran out of ideas or needs to beef up the advertised average playtime are not welcome.

 

[octavius]

Games need puzzles and mapping challenges and such in between combat. What is not needed is cutscenes, walls of text/minutes of monologues, and half-assed dialogue "choices".

 

[J1M]

Puzzles are fun. Quality decline is a result of less intelligent game devs.

 

[Spukrian]

Comment. Yes, quick time events are considered as puzzles. They need to go away. Same reason.

No, QTEs are not puzzles. Puzzles is something that requires you to think to solve whereas QTEs require fast reactions, good reflexes and hand-to-eye coordination.

 

[Harthwain]

What about games that the genre is puzzle? Puyo Puyo, Tetris, Lemmings, Puzzle Bobble, etc...

Baba Is You.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I think puzzles in games need to go away. Thinking especially in action rpgs and particularly open world action rpgs.

To the contrary, RPGs need to recommit to puzzle-solving as an integral component of exploration, which has been sorely lacking in nearly all RPGs released in recent years.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

If puzzles aren't solved by my character's stats, the game is not an RPG.

 

[Peachcurl]

I'll readily agree that
1) some games have trivial, annoying puzzles that should be removed
2) some games have fun, challenging puzzles, but too many of those (see Bard's Tale IV)

Does that mean puzzles should go away entirely? Fuck no. That's like saying some games have shit story, so games should stop telling a story.

Also, why would you ever think that Quick Time Events are puzzles? That makes absolutely no sense.

Good puzzles are challenging, without being obscure. Good puzzles are integrated into the game world, and don't deteriorate immersion at all. Good puzzles aren't repetitive.

We need more good puzzles. MORE.

 

[ds]

They either ruin pacing, and are merely annoying and boring, delay rewards and interesting progress too much, or are too easy and ruin immersion

Are we talking about puzzles or lazily placed trash mobs? Every kind of encounter can be badly designed. If anything, combat is what is used too often when designers can't be arsed to think of an appropriate challenge.

Yes, quick time events are considered as puzzles.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Do puzzle threads often get abandoned?

Surely you actually want THIS in your rpgs:

 

[Old Hans]

i cant remember the last time I ran into a puzzle in a game.

I think puzzles in games need to go away. Thinking especially in action rpgs and particularly open world action rpgs.

They either ruin pacing, and are merely annoying and boring, delay rewards and interesting progress too much, or are too easy and ruin immersion.

Locks on doors that take seconds to open by your pet cat don't feel like locks. Locks that require a boring fetch quest for five types of keys ruin fun.

Gothic style locks and the simple L / R minigame is the limit of puzzles that don't ruin anything. Better than a skill check but not annoying. Also not yet too silly. I would not consider those puzzles but just part of a seamless player-control that includes walking, running, and jumping, or hand movement in VR. That does not need to go away. Puzzles rather stick out.

Comment. Yes, quick time events are considered as puzzles. They need to go away. Same reason.

which game puzzle did you just get stuck on. I assume that lead to this thread topic?

 

[Spukrian]

If puzzles aren't solved by my character's stats, the game is not an RPG.

You mean like in Planescape Torment where you're presented with a simple riddle yet you can't give the correct answer unless the Nameless One's Wisdom is high enough?

 

[wishbonetail]

Can someone name any contemporary RPG which has puzzles, aside LoG or MMX? I thought so.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

Yes to puzzles, no to QTEs. Those can DIAF.

 

[Peachcurl]

Can someone name any contemporary RPG which has puzzles, aside LoG or MMX? I thought so.

Read the thread.