Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Broseph]

I look forward to a free-roaming MMXI.

 

[Zeriel]

I still like grid-style even if it's like Grimrock and not instantaneous.

Grimoire has an option to have similar animated movement or instantaneous, so it's the best of both worlds. If they could disable animations it wouldn't matter, it would be just like the old games.

Yeah, I really don't see a reason not to allow a simple option for animation speed/disabling, it used to be pretty common in most RPGs. It's possible they hardcoded something fundamental in the engine that contradicts with this, wouldn't be the first time a developer hardcodes something that doesn't need to be hardcoded, but I'm hoping for the best.

Though I don't personally agree with the gridders, even the arguments you do have that I have to admit have merit are made void once you realize you're not going to have this sort of old lightning-travel grid.

You realize how arbitrary this sounds, right? We have zero evidence to show that they might or might not allow grid-zooming, so you're essentially just assuming some certainty to argue against something you admit has merit if this certainty isn't true.

 

[Alchemist]

I can't think of any programmatic reason they couldn't just have an optional checkbox in the settings to make grid moves instant. It's just moving the camera through the scene right? Have the current way be the default so the newbs don't get scared off by jerky movement. But the old-school folks can check that box if they want to.

 

[Shadenuat]

I still like grid-style even if it's like Grimrock and not instantaneous.

Grimrock is a different game. It is one big dungeon, everything is always new and something always lurks around the corner. So slow movement suits the game. It is also straightforward - once you cleared the level, you will rarely return to it. M&M X is a sort of open tile-based world, if you will have to travel from city to city multiple times through cleaned location at slow speed, you will lose a lot of sanity points.

 

[Zeriel]

I can't think of any programmatic reason they couldn't just have an optional checkbox in the settings to make grid moves instant. It's just moving the camera through the scene right? Have the current way be the default so the newbs don't get scared off by jerky movement. But the old-school folks can check that box if they want to.

One possibility I can think of is that that pause serves some jinky scripting purpose (i.e checking conditions/timestates, et cetera). This sounds really dumb and unlikely (if-then clauses don't take an entire second to resolve), but I've seen equally dumb reasons for design restrictions that suck.

Anyway, it's all speculation. Will be interesting to see what this looks like in four months' time.

 

[Infinitron]

I am not sure tile movement needs to be literally instantaneous to achieve the quality @Gozma described. It just needs to be fast enough.

 

[Luzur]

I am not sure tile movement needs to be literally instantaneous to achieve the quality @Gozma described. It just needs to be fast enough.

if they make the stepping fast like in MM1-5 it will be perfect.

 

[Shadenuat]

There's stuff which gets processed when you move, like sun moving the sky, which in turn changes reflections on water and position of shadows. How do you speed up that and avoid lag, and what would it take exactly? I don't think it is as easy as switching animation off for NPCs.

 

[Excidium]

Movement animations will probably stay to artificially lengthen the game

There's stuff which gets processed when you move, like sun moving the sky, which in turn changes reflections on water and position of shadows. How do you speed up that and avoid lag, and what would it take exactly? I don't think it is as easy as switching animation off for NPCs.

I don't think that takes much at all, most games do that in real time anyway. Though you never know considering the unexpectedly awful performance of the beta.

 

[J_C]

Ban Shadenuat.

@Grunker Despite both Grimrock and MMX having grid based movement, MMX won't have dancing, because it is turn based.
Overall, I would have liked freeform movement more than grid based (like MM VI), I have no problem with grid based, because it adds a tactical layer to the game.

 

[Shadenuat]

Though you never know considering the unexpectedly awful performance of the beta.

So it wasn't just my crappy PC then, good to know.

Ban Shadenuat.

Pike off Matt.

 

[Grunker]

We have zero evidence to show that they might or might not allow grid-zooming

When the game hadn't been showed, people said there was no proof they would have animations. I said it would obviously have animations, they said no evidence. Fair enough. Now the game is out and it has slow animations, what more do you need?

All I'm saying is as long as it won't have zoom-speed, the gridders have no argument, and since they've made it with animations and haven't said anything else than "we might provide a speed-slider" it seems unlikely that they will add an additional movement mode that gets rid of animations altogether. But it's possible, I suppose.

Overall, I would have liked freeform movement more than grid based (like MM VI), I have no problem with grid based, because it adds a tactical layer to the game.

It has serious possibility to detract from the game if it is slow enough to annoy you in the long run.

(the parts of the game I've played so far have been awesome by the way - overall I'm extremely optimistic about this game)

 

[J_C]

Do you guys think that it will be possible to mod the game so it will have free movement OUTSIDE of the battles?

 

[Stabwound]

Movement animations will probably stay to artificially lengthen the game

Like Wizardry 7's artificially long rest sequences and travel speed. Or the incredibly painfully slow combat of most JRPGs. Wow, FF7 is 80 hours, but 65 of that is spent watching Cloud swing his sword or summon the knights of the apocalypse in an unskippable animation that takes a good 60 seconds each time you use it.

MM games, especially 3-5, can be completed absurdly quickly these days if you know how to speedrun. With Dosbox you can go to an extreme where things are faster than they would have been on the fastest computer, but even still, you can realtime run from one end of the world to the other in like 20 seconds once you have the proper skills.

I want the game to be grid-based no matter whether or not travel is instant. I just like the genre.

 

[Zeriel]

Do you guys think that it will be possible to mod the game so it will have free movement OUTSIDE of the battles?

Nopenopenope. Mod tools will be like in Elder Scrolls I'd expect, just mapmaking and scripting. Maybe on D:OS scale where you can also tweak game balance variables and edit spells.

 

[Stabwound]

The video someone posted recently explained it. It'll be an editor enough to make new areas, spells, equipment and shit, but not change the actual mechanics of the engine, no way. What kind of game has ever allowed an editor to do something like that? It would be like BG having an editor that let the player make the game turn based.

 

[Broseph]

The editor won't allow it, but some butthurt modder will inevitably figure it out.

 

[IDtenT]

Completionists will like grid more. Level designers will find grid easier to develop for. Turn based makes more sense in grids. I always liked discrete mathematics more.

Do we really need an argument? Some of us just like it more - so fuck off.

BTW: The day-night cycle time lengths are in the ini, as is a bunch of other stuff.

 

[J_C]

The editor won't allow it, but some butthurt modder will inevitably figure it out.

That's what I'm hoping. I know a pure editor can't do this. But we have seen good stuff with even hardcoded stuff in some games.

 

[Hirato]

As far as movement is concerned, the animation isn't really a problem, it just needs to be made transparent; aka it's not a problem if it's there, it just shouldn't get in the way of moving.


I'd tackle it by letting the user queue movement input, and multiplying the speed of movement by 1 + amount of queued movement instructions.
This also means it'll slow back down once you reach the end of the movement queue,
Of course, since it's still animated, there should probably be an easily accessible panic button that'd discard the rest of the queue.

For the sake of argument, let's say turning or stepping takes 500 ms due to animations, and the user inputs the keys instantly (in the real world, there'd be a delay between 15-40ms between each)
1 instruction should will take 500ms to process, 2 will take 750ms to process, 3 will take 916 ms to process, 4 will take 1041ms to process, etc

I imagine it may cause mayhem with keyrepeat (read: 50 instructions per second if held) and may cause some motion sickness in the popamole masses.
But the people who want the animation are happy and people who want to rapidly travel all over are contented too.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

There's something indescribably satsifying not just about moving around at lightspeed, but moving around at lightspeed because you've memorized the game's entire map on a muscle-memory level from playing through it.

I just found out I still remember how to move around lvl 2 in Mordor/Demise. Shit, that game.

 

[Infinitron]

Open development blog is about to get a facelift: https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/521b50bde754b61246000001

Now that Early Access has started, we thought it’s about time to also give the blog page a nice facelift, implementing some of the first feedback that had reached us and that regarded the blog in general, like being able to find blog postings by their tags (Game Mechanics, Art/UI, Story Content etc.). You will be able to do that by using the menu function “NEWS”.

You will now also be able to share all news, votes and comments thereto to Facebook, Twitter and VCfriends.

The section “MAPS & MODS” is not yet available, as we are still developing the core game, preparing a first patch for our Early Access players and will then start developing the modding tool as one of the next features. So as soon as this tool will be available, you will be able to share your maps and mods on the websites and we are also planning some great contests – stay tuned!

The menu “MEDIA” is not yet accessible as we are still working on it. However soon you will find all screenshots that have been and that we will still post on the blog at one place. So no more complicated search within the archive!

The menu “FORUMS” will link you to our forums (general Might & Magic Legacy, Early Access and Bug forums) as usual.

“MY PROFILE” is currently not available, as we are busy working on it. We plan to implement some very nice achievements – the first achievement displayed will of course be the MMX Adventurer badge, but there will be also a lot more others available, you’ll see and might be surprised!

 

[Cyberarmy]

Is weapons getting broken a bit too much or I'm just very unlucky?? My dwarf broke his 3 axes on same milita..........

 

[Morphi]

Is weapons getting broken a bit too much or I'm just very unlucky?? My dwarf broke his 3 axes on same milita..........

Many complain about that, the rate is too high currently.

 

[Nael]

The section “MAPS & MODS” is not yet available, as we are still developing the core game, preparing a first patch for our Early Access players and will then start developing the modding tool as one of the next features. So as soon as this tool will be available, you will be able to share your maps and mods on the websites and we are also planning some great contests – stay tuned!

I'm really surprised they're opening up the editor to Early Access patrons. Usually editors are released AFTER a game is released let alone during a beta trial... I hope this doesn't bode ill for its simplicity (edit: I think "limited functionality" is what I meant to say.) I am cautiously super fucking excited.