Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Shadenuat]

It's what they did for now, and that's the only thing I can comment on. Will they deliver on their promise or not remains to be seen, but I think putting one or two named items wasn't such a problem for what they say whole act 1 playthrough

except with fewer fucking lasers.

They were BLASTERS, BLASTERS

 

[Grunker]

I was referring to lasers in general (androids shoot lasters, blasters shoot lasers, and so on) and not just the blasters themselves. Obviously.

 

[Morphi]

There were 3 puzzles when I played : 2 "plate press" ones and one "lever right sequence" . the one "press plate" needed a bit of thinking and trying.

Mysteries... well just a hint that this world is connected to the old MM world.

Spoiler

In the town an agent of the Ancients gives you a quest to make a bestiary. It is also mentioned that he has visited other Sorpigals (the locals keep wondering what he means :D)

This is also the first MM (I don't know about MM1-2) which has exciting boss fights and the battles are more tactical and harder than previous MMs

 

[Shadenuat]

Mysteries... well just a hint that this world is connected to the old MM world.

It's just an easter egg. Same as level up and quest sounds from M&M VI, which cheered me up a little. Puzzles, I've yet to reach one. I am going to make new party, more melee and DPS oriented, because spellcasting with food system is a pain in the ass.

 

[IDtenT]

There were 3 puzzles when I played : 2 "plate press" ones and one "lever right sequence" . the one "press plate" needed a bit of thinking and trying.

Mysteries... well just a hint that this world is connected to the old MM world.

Spoiler

In the town an agent of the Ancients gives you a quest to make a bestiary. It is also mentioned that he has visited other Sorpigals (the locals keep wondering what he means :D)

This is also the first MM (I don't know about MM1-2) which has exciting boss fights and the battles are more tactical and harder than previous MMs

Plus your dungeon will feature. :D

 

[Zed]

Holy shit, there are people that follow Might & Magic lore? Honestly, who gives a shit? It's like Grimrock -- you don't need some fascinating story so long as the setting is decent, there's a logical consistency to the world, and good enough narrative to make what you're doing seem interesting/fun.

I believe any storydriven game could benefit from having a couple of creative writers (with the same holistic mindset of Avellone or Ziets) take a swing at the narrative and fleshing out the lore to better reflect the actions of everybody in the game. How did the town well turn into a grotto with monster spiders? Why hasn't any attempts been made at removing the Naga and bandit threats? There's a temple in town - a temple to what? Besides names of deities, what do they actually believe in?

It leads to a deeper and more comprehensive game.

I agree that MMXL doesn't need a highbrow story... but to disregard the potential of better writing, in any game, is silly. Even Grimrock would benefit greatly from having a more fleshed out narrative and writing to better reflect "the mystery" of Grimrock. Yes, yes, it's good as it is - I'm not arguing that.

I guess what I'm saying is that good writing is the difference between Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas, and that I don't think there are any valid "it's not a full-fledged game anyway | the series has always had a shitty narrative | tradition dictates"-like arguments to make against it.

EDIT: and I don't even consider myself to be, as the Codex puts it, a story-fag.

 

[Arkeus]

There are no mysteries to be found so far, no puzzles, and items seem token like in Diablo, with little modifiers, not artifacts. I only finished 2 dungeons yet though.

To be fair, no MM had artifacts popping up in the first few minutes. We do know Artifacts exists though, and some other people have mentioned Puzzles in the EA too.

 

[Shadenuat]

To be fair, no MM had artifacts popping up in the first few minutes. We do know Artifacts exists though, and some other people have mentioned Puzzles in the EA too.

Sorta true, but item design, the way they were drawn, made regular items very special first time you find them in VI-VII, compared to generic looking little icons in X.
Small details really made this games for me.

 

[Grunker]

Holy shit, there are people that follow Might & Magic lore? Honestly, who gives a shit? It's like Grimrock -- you don't need some fascinating story so long as the setting is decent, there's a logical consistency to the world, and good enough narrative to make what you're doing seem interesting/fun.

I believe any storydriven game could benefit from having a couple of creative writers (with the same holistic mindset of Avellone or Ziets) take a swing at the narrative and fleshing out the lore to better reflect the actions of everybody in the game. How did the town well turn into a grotto with monster spiders? Why hasn't any attempts been made at removing the Naga and bandit threats? There's a temple in town - a temple to what? Besides names of deities, what do they actually believe in?

It leads to a deeper and more comprehensive game.

I agree that MMXL doesn't need a highbrow story... but to disregard the potential of better writing, in any game, is silly. Even Grimrock would benefit greatly from having a more fleshed out narrative and writing to better reflect "the mystery" of Grimrock. Yes, yes, it's good as it is - I'm not arguing that.

I guess what I'm saying is that good writing is the difference between Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas, and that I don't think there are any valid "it's not a full-fledged game anyway | the series has always had a shitty narrative | tradition dictates"-like arguments to make against it.

EDIT: and I don't even consider myself to be, as the Codex puts it, a story-fag.

Eh... it's hard to disagree with this, but it's also completely irrelevant to the debate we had with @Shadenuat whose claim was that Might & Magic X Legacy will be considerably worse because it has a considerably worse setting than older Might & Magics.

Though on further consideration, I'm not even sure I DO agree with you completely. You have to emphasize different things in any given product. If you give additional focus to story and setting by hiring great writers and pulling all of it to the forefront, what are you going to lessen your focus on? I mean, this is a game with a pretty small budget, if they had to hire excellent writers and model their open world design to fit a really good story... fuck man, I wouldn't want that.

Your post leads to a bullshit argument of hypotheticals which has little relevance to the actual debate: will M&M X be worse off for having Ashan as its setting compared to older settings? I say "fuck no."

 

[Shadenuat]

Stop changing rails, Grunker. You may dismiss part of the debate as subjective because you don't care for "lasers", but your major point still was about the fact that M&M's never were about story to begin with, and you don't care if story can break game for somebody or not, which pissed me off. Making decent story does not take enormous amount of cash. Fucking Sea made better story in his mod, and developers of Grimrock wrote stuff more clever than Ashan has now. Voice acting and graphics and programming and modelling, that takes ton of cash. Writing a small, decent story with a bunch of interesting characters does not, and you know that. Shadowrun Returns did fine. Expeditions Conquistador did it for 75 grand. M&M game deserves much more effort.

 

[Grunker]

Stop changing rails, Grunker.

How am I changing rails? My point has constantly been that because M&M isn't about the story or the setting, switching between two versions of generic high fantasy makes little difference.

you don't care if story can break game for somebody or not, which pissed me off

Now fuck me sideways if you aren't the thickest bloody poster I've argued with in recent memory. My point is that what you arbitrarily like or not HOLDS ZERO RELEVANCE in a discussion about quality. Whether you or me have special feelings about the way Enroth used to touch us in a special place doesn't mean shit when we discuss whether Enroth and Ashan are similarly generic and bland. I fucking love secret agent stuff so I'm a sucker for the Jack Ryan movies, but even though I like all three equally I'd never start to argue that #2 or #3 are as good as The Hunt for Red October. Because that would make me an idiot incapable of seeing past my own subjective feelings towards something.

I am getting real fucking tired of repeating myself here.

Fucking Sea made better story in his mod

WHO the FUCK is changing rails now? First you're going on about how Ashan sucks compared to the old games, now we're suddenly debating whether M&M X could have had a grimdark political story with C&C?

Fuck this, I am fucking out. Life is too short to debate nonsensical hypothetical shit like this. Either we go back to the central debate - will having Ashan mean Might & Magic X is automatically a worse game than prior M&M's or not? - or we're just wasting our time. I feel like I'm trying to keep myself clean, but the more I dig myself into debating this shit, the more the feces stick.

 

[hoverdog]

Might&Magic was never about story, but I liked Enroth very much and Ashan is god-fucking shite.


also, jc is a gigantic faggot.

 

[Shadenuat]

the shackles of Open World

How is being an open world instantly implies "shackles", and who said designer can't create means to get as much interesting lore and writing into game if it's open world, not linear? You only need to think of means of doing it, like item descriptions instead of long dialogues/cutscenes, random events, ect. Also, M&MX does not have as much space as, say M&MVI, it is very compact and tile based.

Either we got back to the central debate - will having Ashan mean Might & Magic X is automatically a worse game than prior M&M's or not?

Make me.

Also, you just said you think it's fucking boring because I am, like, Enroth retard ect.

 

[theSavant]

Game looks decent, but the tile movement sux, so everything sux. I'll wait for MMXI

 

[Zed]

Eh... it's hard to disagree with this, but it's also completely irrelevant to the debate we had with @Shadenuat who's claim was that Might & Magic X Legacy will be considerably worse because it has a considerably worse setting than older Might & Magics.

Though on further consideration, I'm not even sure I DO agree with you. You have to emphasize different things in any given product. If you give additional focus to story and setting by hiring great writers and pulling all of it to the forefront, what are you going to take away?

Really, because as I see it, you're discussing "story and setting." I'm even reading Infinitron saying "A good writer could make even the Forgotten Realms interesting, as we know." I think my post is quite relevant to the debate at hand.

Shadenaut did not solely argue for setting, but also story. Setting and story. To this point, one could raise the question "why would the setting suck?" to which he implied: either do the nostalgia trip fully (using the old world), or create something worthwhile. I think story, and to that extent writing, is very important for this.

Also, I don't believe anything has to be taken away for a game to include better writing. In fact I think that notion sounds rather silly. It's like lyrics to music, or writing for a movie. It could in most cases be made better. Arguments could be made for "what's good enough", sure... but I find it hard to accept any arguments saying "shouldn't be made better."

Your post leads to a bullshit argument of hypotheticals which has little relevance to the actual debate: will M&M X be worse off for having Ashan as its setting compared to older settings. I say "fuck no."

and I'm saying it depends on how they handle Ashan. A setting is not set in stone, and could be evolved at any point through writing.

 

[Infinitron]

Game looks decent, but the tile movement sux, so everything sux. I'll wait for MMXI

@MMXI is here

Shadenaut did not solely argue for setting, but also story. Setting and story. To this point, one could raise the question "why would the setting suck?" to which he implied: either do the nostalgia trip fully (using the old world), or create something worthwhile. I think story, and to that extent writing, is very important for this.

We do know they're going for a "non-epic" story that's not about saving the world, so there's that.

 

[Grunker]

How is being an open world instantly implies "shackles"

So now we can't even start from the simple truth that story-writing might get a tad more complicated in open world games? OK.

See you, bro.

Really, because as I see it, you're discussing "story and setting." I'm even reading Infinitron saying "A good writer could make even the Forgotten Realms interesting, as we know." I think my post is quite relevant to the debate at hand.

Shadenaut did not solely argue for setting, but also story. Setting and story. To this point, one could raise the question "why would the setting suck?" to which he implied: either do the nostalgia trip fully (using the old world), or create something worthwhile. I think story, and to that extent writing, is very important for this.

Also, I don't believe anything has to be taken away for a game to include better writing. In fact I think that notion sounds rather silly. It's like lyrics to music, or writing for a movie. It could in most cases be made better. Arguments could be made for "what's good enough", sure... but I find it hard to accept any arguments saying "shouldn't be made better."

The core of this debate is the question of whether or not Might & Magic X is automatically more shitty than its predecessors because it uses Ashan rather than an older setting. This is evident if you go back to the beginning, and every argument until now derives from that. This what I want to discuss. I am not interested in discussing whether they could have written a better story. I fucking wrote in 10 or 15 posts that the setting is bland and generic as fuck, just like the old games, so I can't even begin to fathom how you would think that I'd disagree with that.

So here's the essence: I don't understand how your extremely hypothetical point of "well, if they used more money for writers and gave it a bigger focus in the game, then story and setting would be better" are a) relevant and b) not completely obvious.

But hey, maybe I'm a fucking idiot, who knows?

 

[Shadenuat]

So now we can't even start from the simple truth that story-writing might get a tad more complicated in open world games? OK.

It is only difficult if you make it difficult, like, trying to create a dialogue tree for every NPC, or voice acting for everyone. There are ways to go around, like tag dialogue system, books, token dialogue, banters between characters like in Wiz8, many more. Stop implying M&MX is some sort of skyrim-like giant you can't put more effort into.
Not to mention, we're talking about quality here, not quantity. Hence why I mentioned game like Expeditions Conquistador. And Sea, I mentioned him because he's like, you know, one man? And M&MX is like, Ubifucking soft and they have whole game series thing going? Can do better than Maximus the orc.

setting is bland and generic as fuck, just like the old games

 

[theSavant]

Besides, it's unfortunate how the single screenshot of Grimrock 2 looks much more "high-end" and "old--school", than the low-end graphics from MMX. Maybe the Unity game engine sux as well, especially for open world scenarios. Hence I rather wait for Grimrock 2. Hopefully they have removed their stupid dancing-stars-mechanics until then.

 

[Infinitron]

I think both gameplayfags and settingfags can agree that graphicsfags are

 

[Zed]

The core of this debate is the question of whether or not Might & Magic X is automatically more shitty than its predecessors because it uses Ashan rather than an older setting. This is evident if you go back to the beginning, and every argument until now derives from that. This what I want to discuss. I am not interested in discussing whether they could have written a better story. I fucking wrote in 10 or 15 posts that the setting is bland and generic as fuck, just like the old games, so I can't even begin to fathom how you would think that I'd disagree with that.

I didn't know you were dictating this entire discussion. As I see it, forums are a place for anybody to take any discussion anywhere. Not that I see what I posted a irrelevant (although this is) - just pointing it out.

So here's the essence: I don't understand how your extremely hypothetical point of "well, if they used more money for writers and gave it a bigger focus in the game, then story and setting would be better" are a) relevant and b) not completely obvious.

a) you seem very keen on debating relevancy of a debate, rather than follow a debate where it takes you. you'd make a great politician.
b) I also think it's obvious. I also think this makes a better game. Better setting, better game - that's the crux, no?

You just argued: "You have to emphasize different things in any given product. If you give additional focus to story and setting by hiring great writers and pulling all of it to the forefront, what are you going to take away?"
What would be taken away? I know games have budgets, as you say, but is this the sole concern? Or do you think writing takes away from the qualities of other aspects regardless of budget?

But hey, maybe I'm a fucking idiot, who knows?

...

 

[Darth Roxor]

I think both gameplayfags and settingfags can agree that graphicsfags are

As our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ once said: "Fags are so gay".

 

[theSavant]

Even if they agree it doesn't change the fact.

 

[Grunker]

I didn't know you were dictating this entire discussion. As I see it, forums are a place for anybody to take any discussion anywhere. Not that I see what I posted a irrelevant (although this is) - just pointing it out.

Sorry for being a party-pooper trying to keep to some sort of core to he argument so we might learn something. Meaninglessness ftw!

Actually, I don't mind at all if you want to debate in east and west, but I sure as fuck can't see what's wrong with me saying that's not my cup of tea. I only entered this discussion because I saw an obvious falsum; that this game should be implicitly worse because of its use of Ashan. Every single point I've made has been related to this. If you want to have a different discussion, then more power to you, but that was the discussion that interested me. As such, you can see how I can become confused when you reply to that discussion with an entirely new topic.

Not because I wanted to debate whether making fucking Chris Avellone head of the writing deparment would improve the story. Your whole post can be summarized as "better writing is better writing." Well, woop-de-fucking-doo. If you want to put up some strawman about how wanting to stick to a single discussion at a time makes me a politician, then hey, fuck you.

Bah, this is fruitless.

I think both gameplayfags and settingfags can agree that graphicsfags are

See, this makes no sense. If you were a "settingfag" - as in, someone who plays games for great settings - you wouldn't be playing Might & Magic at all, because their settings suck high fantasy ass.

 

[Nael]

The Ashan setting does suck but I would be willing to bet money that it was a Ubisoft executive decision to keep it in that setting seeing as the HoMM franchise is their money maker now.