Merging the random and the hand-crafted in RPGs

[GaelicVigil]

So Computer RPGs currently fall into two camps or a mix of the two (usually leaning in one direction or the other):

1. Hand-crafted world with a cohesive narrative. Focus on a telling a good story.
2. Randomized content usually focusing more on character development than an interesting narrative/world.

Obviously some games make use of both, but we all know pretty clearly when we are seeing one or the other, and we all know the pros/cons of the two types of game-play. A modern example would be Baldur's Gate 3 vs Diablo 4, hand-crafted vs randomized. Starfield would fall into the hand-crafted camp, but leans into randomization for planet generation.

With improving AI, I am hoping we will soon see the near-perfect merging of both concepts. The closest games I've seen do this so far are the Dwarf Fortress-likes (and Daggerfall). But even those lean more heavily into the randomized content (where you're making shapes out of clouds to create a story).

I want to see an RPG with a fully algorithmically generated world from the very start. Each time you start a new game, the entire story plot, all side quests & campaigns, characters, towns, locales, items, bad guys, good guys, allies, enemies, dialogue, etc are generated dynamically and still maintain something that feels genuinely hand-crafted.

I think this is going to be the next major breakthrough in video games, and I can't wait to see it happen. My question is, have you seen any games approach this merging of design? How close are we?

Personally, I would love to see this done on a smaller scale first. Think of a game with the depth of Ultima 7 with a completely different experience every time you play.

 

[Eisen]

Grim Dawn(Diablo 2 clone) is a bad example of merging random and hand-crafted
EDIT: hand-crafter -> hand-crafted

 

[GaelicVigil]

Grim Dawn(Diablo 2 clone) is a bad example of merging random and hand-crafter

Yeah, Grim Dawn is the worst of both worlds. ARPG with bland, monotonous environments that never change. Though I do give GD credit for giving a ton of options for character build. Character customization makes up for the world design. None of the above is a good example of what I'm looking for though.

 

[GaelicVigil]

A game that I admire is Deus Ex because it gives a static world, but yet gives a ton of option on how to traverse it. That's a great start. Other games with elements like this are Fallout & maybe even Avernum 3 or Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

 

[Laz Sundays]

It hasn't been done so far. Best working example I saw, and the best rpg experience I had in the last decade came from Guild Wars 2 mmo and their Dynamic events + Living world concepts.

I'm refusing to share any detailed discovery, concept or idea that came from years of research and observation. Things can be done, though it looks like they are not going to be done any time soon. Not because the technology isn't there or we suddenly need AI to save us. For some strange reason, noone was able to successfully combine things that work into a whole. Or grasp what's structurally important when creating worlds.

Baldur's gate is a story driven game. It's entire success relies in how good is the story. Their world is built around that story, so it can't exist on it's own. If someone made the Living world of Forgotten Realms instead, they could put ANY story into it. And live forever through mods. Imagine a non-retarded versions of TES and NVN modules. It's not even hard.

 

[Laz Sundays]

In short, the answer to your thread is yes. Can be done, not even hard. If anyone is offering a Creative Director job - I can show you exactly how, in autistically rich detail.

 

[GaelicVigil]

It hasn't been done so far. Best working example I saw, and the best rpg experience I had in the last decade came from Guild Wars 2 mmo and their Dynamic events + Living world concepts.

I'm refusing to share any detailed discovery, concept or idea that came from years of research and observation. Things can be done, though it looks like they are not going to be done any time soon. Not because the technology isn't there or we suddenly need AI to save us. For some strange reason, noone was able to successfully combine things that work into a whole. Or grasp what's structurally important when creating worlds.

Baldur's gate is a story driven game. It's entire success relies in how good is the story. Their world is built around that story, so it can't exist on it's own. If someone made the Living world of Forgotten Realms instead, they could put ANY story into it. And live forever through mods. Imagine a non-retarded versions of TES and NVN modules. It's not even hard.

NWN is an interesting example. Practically infinite worlds, but all player created. Too bad I hate that engine (and 3.5ed D&D) with a passion or it would be a great example.

Here's one great example I just thought of: Yoda Stories. That game is very, very close to what I want to see on a grander scale. If someone took that vision and made it much bigger in scope, I'd be in happy-land. It really is a shame nobody took that concept and ran with it. It was brilliant.

 

[Arbiter]

Baldur's Gate 3 vs Diablo 4, hand-crafted vs randomized

Diablo 4 is an MMO-lite. How can it be randomized, apart from loot drops?

 

[deuxhero]

Random loot was always the weak link in handcrafted RPGs. I don't see why more random would ever be good.

 

[Butter]

We're a ways off having randomly generated stories that are any good. Even further off is having randomly generated stories within a randomly generated world and having both be good. The best you can do right now is play roguelikes and just accept that the story is the things you do during your adventure.

 

[Leinhart]

I´m sorry but even if random generated content can be "fun" , it will never be as engaging as the hand-crafted one.

Especially if we are talking about a tight well designed story.

The only place where I like random generated content is in sandbox games.