Lucas' 260 RPGs Corner

[Sigourn]

Hello there.

This is a small corner of RPG Codex where I will post my progress on completing, chronologically, a list of 260 RPGs I handpicked from the Codex, the Internet, and some fetishes of mine.

When I say chronologically, I really mean to say "My updates will be chronological". I won't be limiting myself to these games at one time. Though it would be ideal, I simply don't have the willpower to. So while I may be tackling some old school RPGs, I'll probably be playing Morrowind in the mean time.

You can see the 260 games here.

Here's a quick breakdown of the list (at least the most notable titles), for those interested:

- 7 PLATO mainframe games.
- What I consider the 13 most important roguelikes.
- Beneath Apple Manor and the Temple of Apshai Trilogy.
- All Gold Box games (11), with the exception of Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures and Neverwinter Nights.
- All Inifinity Engine games and expansions (9).
- All Neverwinter Nights games and expansions (8).
- All Might and Magic (I-X) games, plus Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (11).
- All The Bard's Tale (1-3 and inXile's title) games.
- All Ultima (I-IX) games, plus Akalabeth, Ultima Worlds of Adventure, and Ultima Underworld titles.
- All Wizardry (I-8) games.
- All Betrayal at Krondor games (even if in spirit only) (3).
- All (worthwile) Deus Ex games and expansions, plus The Nameless Mod (5).
- Divine Divinity, Divinity II (and expansion), and Divinity: Original Sin (4).
- All GOTHIC games and expansions, plus Risen (6).
- The Elder Scrolls I through III and expansions (5).
- All Wasteland and (worthwile) Fallout games and expansions, as well as The Age of Decadence and Underrail (11).
- All Dark Souls games and expansions (4).
- All of Geraldo del Rivero's games and expansions (5).
- All Star Flight games (I and II), plus it's unofficial sequel, Protostar: War on the Frontier.
- All Spiderweb Software games (22).
- All Mass Effect games (3).
- All Shadowrun games (3).
- Pillars of Eternity and expansions, + Tyranny (4).
- And, obviously, Arcanum: my worst enemy.

All of the games in the Top 70 RPGs are included.

It was difficult compiling this list, because apart from the work needed to compile it, what was hardest was trimming it down. Originally I wanted to play all the sequels and previous games in a series that appeared in the Top 70 list. Some titles looked appealing, and so I looked the Codex for an opinion. Spoilers: most of the time the games were shit.

- Some games (Lands of Lore II and III) I won't play since they look like absolute shit (old =/= ugly, but ugly = ugly), And the consensus isn't good.
- Others (Risen 2 and 3, Dragon Age II and Inquisition, DX: Invisible War) I considered playing just to see how bad they were, but I've heard so many bad things about them I won't even bother. ArcaniA was a particular case, but I ended up dropping it since Gothic 3 will be enough of a test to see how badly the franchise fell.
- Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3: I played the last two in that order, with mods, and even then they sucked. Oblivion was painfully terrible for the two hours I played it yesterday, so I dropped it as well.
- Notable exceptions are the last titles in the M&M and Ultima series. They are very important series for the roleplaying genre, so it is of utmost importance that I see them fail firsthand.

I will be playing all these games in their DOS versions when possible, and in their original versions when I deem it worth it (like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale), and in their remakes/enhanced versions if I consider it reasonable (The Witcher, DX:HR).

I made this thread because I'm tired of having a list sitting down in my computer, which I revise constantly and all the fucking time (no joke, I went from around 50 games in a beginning far far away, to 300 and something lately, to 541, then to 360 and 300 back and forth, then to 270 or so, then to 300 again, and now to 260, with games the Codex could reasonably recommend, plus some other games I'm really interested to see).

Hopefully in this journey I will get up to speed with the roleplaying genre, seeing as my western RPG experience is literally (so far) and in that order:

- Skyrim
- Fallout 3
- Fallout: New Vegas
- Morrowind
- Fallout 1
- Gothic
- Planescape: Torment
- Bits and pieces of Baldur's Gate and Gothic II

With that out of the way, the challenge will start tomorrow, with pedit5. Any questions or suggestions, go ahead and ask.

 

[octavius]

Instead of trying to make a final play list from the onset, just make a list of candidates, and then evaluate each game indiviually as you complete the previous game on the list.


Some very good games are missing from your list:
Magic Candle
Nahlakh
The Aethra Chronicles

It should be possible to finish the project.
I started my own chronological project five years ago and I'm nearing the end of 1997. And I don't play only CRPGs, but also FPS and TBS, as well as user made content for my favourites (lots of FRUA and HoMM 2, for example). I skipped all the PLATO games and Roguelikes, though.

 

[Sigourn]

Instead of trying to make a final play list from the onset, just make a list of candidates, and then evaluate each game indiviually as you complete the previous game on the list.

Some very good games are missing from your list:
Magic Candle
Nahlakh
The Aethra Chronicles

It should be possible to finish the project.
I started my own chronological project five years ago and I'm nearing the end of 1997. And I don't play only CRPGs, but also FPS and TBS, as well as user made content for my favourites (lots of FRUA and HoMM 2, for example). I skipped all the PLATO games and Roguelikes, though.

Hmm, I had trimmed the first two from the 541 list, but I'll keep it in mind for the future. I'm definitely not forcing myself to play some games (like ME2 and 3) if I didn't like the original, but with some of the classics I really want to experience them. It's a very tight list in the sense that it is populated by extremely popular titles (Ultima, Wizardry, The Bard's Tale, M&M, Gold Box series, and a bunch of D&D titles). But I'll keep those suggestion in mind for when I'm done with these.

 

[Don Peste]

I would remove Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, it's just an action game. Also remove all Mass Effect games. Or at least forget about 2 & 3.
Add Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption & Bloodlines, and The Temple of Elemental Evil.
And Anachronox!

 

[Sigourn]

I would remove Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, it's just an action game. Also remove all Mass Effect games. Or at least forget about 2 & 3.
Add Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption & Bloodlines, and The Temple of Elemental Evil.
And Anachronox!

Thanks! Will keep it in mind. Also, all the other games are in the Excel I listed.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

There are some like me who believe Risen 2 to be utter shit, but Risen 3 to be somewhat better, at least in the atmosphere and world department (gameplay is still pretty shit though).
We are a minority for sure, but if I may make a suggestion I would advise you to try Risen 3 as well.

 

[Sigourn]

There are some like me who believe Risen 2 to be utter shit, but Risen 3 to be somewhat better, at least in the atmosphere and world department (gameplay is still pretty shit though).
We are a minority for sure, but if I may make a suggestion I would advise you to try Risen 3 as well.

Thanks! Given that you like Vagrant Story, I'll trust your judgement.

On topic: posting this was a good idea! I finally got off my ass and started playing pedit5, so you guys can certainly expect a report tomorrow.

 

[Kahr]

Don't believe him, Vampire Redemption is a lie!

And of course Dark Messiah is "just an action game", but at least an entertaining one.

Edit: Why is Vampire Redemption a roll gaming play if Dark Messiah isn't?

 

[Delterius]

Ignore the Neverwinter Nights Original Campaigns. Both of them. You are better off just playing the expansions and looking for notable fan modules to test out and get a feel for what those games meant for their time. I believe felipepepe knows an interesting one that focuses a lot on clericdom. Lhynn also knows a lot of modules. I myself could never play anything other than MotB.

By the same token, the Shadowrun games can be ranked in order of quality as Dragonfall > Hong Kong > Dead Man's Switch. All three were fun and unique enough stories, but quite lacking in encounter design. I wouldn't bother with DMS's as anything more than the pilot program for Shadowrun Returns. If you feel hooked already by the fantasty-cyberpunk setting you may want to play it first. But its okay to ignore it. When it comes to fan campaigns, there are a lot of them but few that I'd recommend. Really liked what I saw of Mercurial for Dragonfall.

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic has been noted as not worth your time. Indeed, its a simplistic action game with a very short and simple minded campaign. There isn't much of exceptional about Dark Messiah except how many of its concepts remain elusive to AAA developers today. Things like vertical movement are rarely found outside of Dishonored.

Speaking of action games. If you are into those, might want to take a look into Dragon's Dogma. There's a sizeable enough following in the Dex. Its a fun third person action game with strong class dynamics in a party of four (three of which controlled by the AI). Kinda mindless at the beginning when you are just fighting goblins, but gets more fun as your skills grow and the baddies get bigger.

About Arcanum. Look. Its a great universe and a beautiful broken promise of what could have been. Its the best unfinished game I'll never replay. If you keep going back to it without sticking to a playthrough it will only become more painful each time. Try playing a low maintenance mage character, that should solve most things right off the bat.

 

[Sigourn]

Don't believe him, Vampire Redemption is a lie!

And of course Dark Messiah is "just an action game", but at least an entertaining one.

Edit: Why is Vampire Redemption a roll gaming play if Dark Messiah isn't?

I would appreciate if you guys could clear that up for me. I want to stick to RPGs and nothing else, so X-COM for example just doesn't qualify. If any of you see any non-RPGs, please point it out! EDIT: Thanks Delterius for confirming that!

Also, since I presume people are going to suggest a few games, here's a list of games that didn't make the cut. I would like that you guys point out which ones of these are worth playing in 2016. This isn't the "CRPG Addict" blog (good read, by the way), I'm not interesting in playing all RPGs or obscure RPGs that were garbage "just for historical reasons", or games that were fun 30 years ago, but most likely aren't fun today. For the record: Wizardry 1 is incredible, Wasteland 1 is fun, but I'm not interesting in moving a pixel around a labyrinth, for example, or dealing with tons of miniature pixels in a game that most likely I won't find fun. Beneath Apple Manor and Temple of Apshai will push my patience since I'm not really into them, but they are SO significant I can't just skip them.

And really, at the risk of sounding like a retard and tarnishing my nonexistent reputation, I'd rather play Dragon Age 2 than "random RPG from the 80's". Again: Wizardry is worth playing, so is Wasteland. Ultima 1 was pushing it mostly because of how repetitive the game is (as I have found out in the past), but, again, historical reasons (one of the fathers of the genre, which is much different than "it was the first to use *obscure mechanic nobody cares about*".

Knowing that, which games would you guys honestly recommend for me to play? Even if it is just a so-so title from the 90s or 2000s, I would rather have that than a "great" game from the 80s I'll probably never touch.

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

Not a bad list. I, too, am on something of an CRPG marathon, albeit my list exists only in my head and is a lot more capricious.

Just at a glance, though, yours seems to be missing Arx Fatalis and Darklands. Trying to think of anything that might come to mind, stuff I'd recommend.

Edit: Sea Dogs 2 is close to my heart, but be sure to get Build 14 if you ever decide to check it out.
Wait, never mind. I was stupid and did not check your whole list. Sorry. But Sea Dogs 2 might still be worth it.

 

[octavius]

Apart from the others I've mentioned I would add Phantasie 1 to the list. A very enjoyable game, with the first (?) automap among CRPG, and it's quite short. Play the Atari ST (STEEM emulator is very easy to use) version if you want good graphics and the option to transfer the party to P2 and P3.

The Legacy: Realm of Terror is also a very good game, but quite obscure.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm curious about what's your goal here. I'm doing something very similar with the CRPG Book, playing a list of ~300 RPGs, but my goal wasn't to complete all of them.

I'm actually more interested in simply understanding them, while also looking for hidden gems and unusual titles. So instead of completing ALL Gold Box titles, I play Pools of Radiance then read a good overview of the rest of the series & give them a brief look. Because someone else was writing the review, I just have to check if an outsider can understand the review & it is accurate.

And since I don't spent billion of hours completing all Gold Box games, all Bard's Tale, all Ultimas, all Wizardry, etc... I can spend time with less known stuff like ZanZarah, Rings of Zilfin, The Return of Heracles, Siege of Avalon, Entomorph, Descent to Undermountain, Realmz, Omikrom, Autoduel, Lords of the Fallen, Yumina, Superhero League of Hoboken, Marauder, Recettear, Two Worlds II, Venetica, Way of the Samurai 4, etc... - all games which are missing from your list.

So, again, what's your goal? That list reads "I wanna complete all the classics", but personally I think having a broad brush is way cooler than "just finished Wizardry II, time to play Wizardry III".

Finally, don't do the same mistake the CRPG Addict did at the start - "I'mma go DOS-BOX always!" Some games play better on Amiga or Apple II, and I honestly think you lose a lot of the historical perspective this way. How can you get a sense of the evolution of graphics, commands & presentation of the first RPGs if you're playing the Ultima 1 remake from 1986 instead of the original Apple II release from 1981? The original Wizardry 1 looked a lot better than the original Ultima 1, but while Sir-Tech stagnated, Garriott re-wrote the code with every release and made huge jumps - that insight is completely gone by playing remakes or later ports.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

Hello there.

etc

What will you do differently to CRPG Addict?

 

[MediantSamuel]

I hope that you'll love Deus Ex enough to replay it with GMDX, friend. Much more satisfying than Square Enix's lackluster efforts.

 

[Sigourn]

I'm curious about what's your goal here.

This is my RPG equivalent of Scorsese's list of essential foreign films. It's doesn't contain every RPG. It doesn't contain every "interesting" RPG either. It just contains the most popular games of the genre, the ones that started it all, and some others that really caught my attention because they appear to be good games.

Granted, not all of these are essential. But they are to me, out of importance or interest.

And since I didn't spent billion of hours completing all Gold Box games, all Bard's Tale, all Ultimas, all Wizardry, etc... I could spend time with less known stuff like ZanZarah, Rings of Zilfin, The Return of Heracles, Siege of Avalon, Entomorph, Descent to Undermountain, Realmz, Omikrom, Autoduel, Lords of the Fallen, Yumina, Superhero League of Hoboken, Marauder, Recettear, Two Worlds II, Venetica, Way of the Samurai 4, etc - all games which are missing from your list.

That's good. And a lot of those (were) present in the list I linked to in the 10# post of the thread, some of those are still there actually, but I have no idea which ones are actually entertaining to play and not just "interesting".
I appreciate your book for what it is: an overview of the genre (and correct me if I'm wrong). But I would not play all of those games. My interest can be best summarized as "how it all started" (PLATO games, the invention of roguelikes are excellent starts), and "history of the most renowned series and how they went to shit". After that, it's just the Top 70 list and a bunch of games I read about and drew my attention.

I'm sorry for giving out a rather (I imagine) disappointing response, but I want to have fun in my games. I feel overwhelmed when people talk about games I've never played, and this list is a good way to get on with the times. I also posted here because as I explained (and it turned out to be the truth) I had to have some written record of me saying "I'll start playing these games already".

So, again, what's your goal? That list reads "I wanna complete all the classics", but I think trying out obscure stuff is way cooler than "just finished Wizardry II, time to play Wizardry III".

I love Vagrant Story not because it's hardly talked about in the Internet (in fact, I think until Joni Odin von Hassenstein, I had never heard of anyone talk wonders about it), but because it really is the best roleplaying game I ever played, and an undisputed masterpiece. I appreciate curiosities, but curiosities are just that, and I don't want to play curiosities, I want to have fun playing games.

This is incidentally why most of the games in your book (that aren't directly related to the Top 70 list) aren't present in my list: whereas you pay attention to curiosities, kirks, and obscure games, I pay attention to what I would enjoy playing nowadays.

Maybe I should really grab that "Doubters" list, trim down what I know I don't like, and leave the Codex to decide if the remaining titles are worth playing...

Finally, don't do the same mistake the CRPG Addict did at the start - "I'mma go DOS-BOX always!" Some games play better on Amiga or Apple II, and I honestly think you lose a lot of the historical perspective this way.

Limiting myself to the remakes is not something I'm going to do (Enhanced Editions like The Witcher are another thing, not so in the case of BG and BGEE, since the whole system was reworked). I just listed them because I found it better to place them side by side instead of making the list even bigger (something that I did do with expansions, but it's this weird practice of listing expansions as separate games altogether which I'll never understand).

At first I wanted to play the games in their original platforms, but it's complicated getting a hold of the games if you know what I mean and getting them to work properly, at least when it comes to Amiga and Apple II (with their multidisk systems) is a pain in the ass.

I hope that you'll love Deus Ex enough to replay it with GMDX, friend. Much more satisfying than Square Enix's lackluster efforts.

I definitely will! I enjoyed Deus Ex for the little time we shared together (I made it to Hong Kong before I scrapped it since I was playing too many games at once).

 

[Mustawd]

Ignore the Neverwinter Nights Original Campaigns. Both of them. You are better off just playing the expansions and looking for notable fan modules to test out and get a feel for what those games meant for their time. I believe felipepepe knows an interesting one that focuses a lot on clericdom. Lhynn also knows a lot of modules. I myself could never play anything other than MotB.

Lilura is always recommending some good modules for combat and resource management. Ugh, I still need to get around to playing all those.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

And of course Dark Messiah is "just an action game", but at least an entertaining one.

I was going to comment this also. I think DMoMM is arguably an RPG, but even if you don't think so, it's a very entertaing game. The melee combat is some of the best available, and you can have some goofy fun making enemies slide around with the ice spell and kicking them into things

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Are Silent Storm and Hammer & Sickle on that list.
They better be on that list.

EDIT: Well, didn't find them on the list. Get to it, boyo.

 

[Kalin]

- All Shadowrun games (3).

- And, obviously, Arcanum: my worst enemy.

 

[zerosum]

So what are you playing now Lucas? Or are you perfecting your list, and playing with that instead? There is something satisfying with just collecting the games and reading about them.

 

[Sigourn]

So what are you playing now Lucas? Or are you perfecting your list, and playing with that instead? There is something satisfying with just collecting the games and reading about them.

I love making lists, someone even suggested somewhere I join MobyGames or some shit.

But I'll be playing with the ones that are on the list right now, but I will be playing others I'm interested about (though I'm free to drop them if they turn out to be shit).

 

[Delterius]

(though I'm free to drop them if they turn out to be shit).

No you are not, argentinean. You have signed the contract with blood. You now walk the golden brick road of CRPGs. This journey is fraught with peril. Choices will be made and consequences will be min-maxed away. There will be much bunnyhopping before the end. Godspeed.

 

[Fowyr]

I would appreciate if you guys could clear that up for me. I want to stick to RPGs and nothing else, so X-COM for example just doesn't qualify. If any of you see any non-RPGs, please point it out! EDIT: Thanks Delterius for confirming that!

Also, since I presume people are going to suggest a few games, here's a list of games that didn't make the cut. I would like that you guys point out which ones of these are worth playing in 2016.

Important enough to play for hour or two or good, but too long and boring for you.
- Wizard's Crown (very detailed combat system, predecessor of Goldboxes, some things like changing facings were used only in handful of other RPGs like Nahlakh)
- The Magic Candle
very interesting game with little quirks that were never really implemented again in other games.
- Black Crypt
Sadly, I played only demo, but it looked like fun DM-clone.
- Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace
buggy as hell, but very underrated game. But buggy, so buggy... Never could finish it due to bug. Still, very interesting due to Spelljammer setting and elements of space sim.
- UnReal World
Awesome survival roguelike.
- Nahlakh
very good game, but it probably will leave you in tears.

Add to your main list:
- The Summoning
- BloodNet
Adventure/RPG hybrid
- The Legacy: Realm of Terror
- AETHRA CHRONICLES

All of them are great games that I replayed several times. Especially Aethra and Legacy.

Not RPGs. I really sure in it, 'cause played and finished all of them:
- Neuromancer - afair, it's more an adventure game.
- Elvira: Mistress of the Dark
All three Elviras (Elvira 1, Elvira 2 and Waxworks) are very good games and I definitely recommend them, but they are RPG/adventure hybrids.
- ShadowCaster
It's FPS, dude.
- Veil of Darkness
Adventure/RPG hybrid with too light RPG elements, remnants of the engine that was used previosly in Summoning, Darkspyre and Dusk of the Gods.
- CyberMage: Darklight Awakening
Very good FPS with story and some RPG elements.
- Entomorph: Plague of the Darkfall
Adventure/Action
- Witchaven
FPS with mostly melee combat.
- Strife: Quest for the Sigil
FPS on the Doom engine with some talky-talky and C&C thrown in. Great game.
- Rage of Mages
It's more RTS than RPG.

 

[felipepepe]

You know Fowyr , I could really use a short review of games like Elvira, UnReal World and the likes for the CRPG Book... :3