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Little details in RPGs that annoy you

Krraloth

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Wasteland 2
- artificial barriers for defeating enemies of a higher level (e.g. attacks against stronger opponents miss for no apparent reason, but work as soon as you bridge the level gap)

This. I rather get raped by an Orc like in Gothic 2 than whiffing all attacks because i am not the appropriate level yet.
Also i really dislike gatekeeping areas if there isn't a diagetic reason. It feels lazy and again, if i want to get raped by high level enemies just let me do it.


Inviato dal mio A80S utilizzando Tapatalk
 

Serus

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That meteor was ported in from the astral realm.
I don't even know where to start to argue against this laughable bs so let's just see what the D2 manual says:

Meteor.jpg


Skeletons move with magic.
Yeah, yeah, I expected some nerd to come up with this horrible cliché.

So, since there is oviously no way the skeleton could make a move on its own, or even hold together without any ligaments etc., what you basically need to do is to animate its every single move with your magical powers, right? Which has nothing to do with necromancy - reviving the dead capable of some basic control of their own body via the rests of brain and muscle system, controled by the will of the summoner or a spirit bound to the remains - that's just pure telekinesis. So instead of just making the weapons levitate or creating an astral weapon or whatever concievable magical effect much easier to achieve, you're going to waste your powers to animate pointless skeletons cuz you're a badass skeleton master nerd and need some pals down in the catacombs for you necrophilic pleasures. Skeletal liches become even more absurd in this regard.

I nominate the author of this post to the "Autistic Nerd Poster of the Month" award.
Which might be a good thing or a bad thing.
 
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Lim-Dûl

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That meteor was ported in from the astral realm.
I don't even know where to start to argue against this laughable bs so let's just see what the D2 manual says:

Meteor.jpg


Skeletons move with magic.
Yeah, yeah, I expected some nerd to come up with this horrible cliché.

So, since there is oviously no way the skeleton could make a move on its own, or even hold together without any ligaments etc., what you basically need to do is to animate its every single move with your magical powers, right? Which has nothing to do with necromancy - reviving the dead capable of some basic control of their own body via the rests of brain and muscle system, controled by the will of the summoner or a spirit bound to the remains - that's just pure telekinesis. So instead of just making the weapons levitate or creating an astral weapon or whatever concievable magical effect much easier to achieve, you're going to waste your powers to animate pointless skeletons cuz you're a badass skeleton master nerd and need some pals down in the catacombs for you necrophilic pleasures. Skeletal liches become even more absurd in this regard.

It's a video game, therefore it doesn't require justification as long as it runs on your computer.
 

Serus

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It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
 
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Lim-Dûl

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It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
How does the spell "work" ?
 

Kruyurk

Learned
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Selecting the only decent portrait during character creation but being unable to have the model matching it close enough.
Then a few hours in you meet a NPC with the same portrait. Unplayable.
 

Pentium

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I nominate the author of this post to the "Autistic Nerd Poster of the Month" award.
Which might be a good thing or a bad thing.
Just pure logic, bro.

It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
So you're only able to understand anything if someone else kindly provides you with an explanation? I guess the reason why useless garbage like superhero comics and low-grade fantasy and sci-fi is still around is the fact that their retarded fans are more than happy with this tH4t's H0w !t w0Rks, ScRub and fall for such atrocities. But they wouldn't be undemanding garbage lovers otherwise, right? Skeletons are arguably the most annoying low-grade fantasy cliché ever.
 

Serus

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It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
How does the spell "work" ?
We don't need to know "how", only "what" it does. Magic users in many magical settings don't "know" either. At least in the sense that we understand scientific knowledge. They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
There might be some books that attempt to "rationalise" magic and describe how it works in-depth but those usually aren't game settings. Also ones that describe "magic" that is really a technological leftover of a past civilisation. In those cases an explanation would be in order.
In other cases, why is such knowledge required? The fact that people on real Earth in the past didn't have knowledge of what single cell organisms are, didn't mean that those organism didn't exist back then. In fact, humans were able make some use of them a long time before scientific revolution started. Same assumption with magic in different fantasy settings and there is no risk for internal consistency being destroyed.

The effects of magic is another thing. For example all the fantasy worlds that have powerful (and abundant) healing magic but at the same time people treat death and sickness exactly the same way we do. Or alchemists who can really change other metals into gold but they are still poor and not taken seriously. Cases like this are inconsistent and can be avoided.
 
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Lim-Dûl

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It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
How does the spell "work" ?
We don't need to know "how", only "what" it does. Magic users in many magical settings don't "know" either. At least in the sense that we understand scientific knowledge. They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
There might be some books that attempt to "rationalise" magic and describe how it works in-depth but those usually aren't game settings. Also ones that describe "magic" that is really a technological leftover of a past civilisation. In those cases an explanation would be in order.
In other cases, why is such knowledge required? The fact that people on real Earth in the past didn't have knowledge of what single cell organisms are, didn't mean that those organism didn't exist back then. In fact, humans were able make some use of them a long time before scientific revolution started. Same assumption with magic in different fantasy settings and there is no risk for internal consistency being destroyed.

The effects of magic is another thing. For example all the fantasy worlds that have powerful (and abundant) healing magic but at the same time people treat death and sickness exactly the same way we do. Or alchemists who can really change other metals into gold but they are still poor and not taken seriously. Cases like this are inconsistent and can be avoided.
In real life there are generalities that make processes happen the way they do whether you understand them or not. There are varying extents of understanding these generalities, anyway this does not necessarily mean that certain things exist only to the extent that people understand them. This is totally different from how you have to overlook so many contradicting factors to accept why a thing works the way it does in a video game. What might make raising an army of skeletons seem fleetingly plausible is ignoring or not thinking about other presumed and existing aspects of the game that conflict with it.
 

Pentium

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They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
Yet another horrible fantasy cliché. We are some of the smartest, most eductaed scholars in the world but we don't really get anything and can only hoard old books and scrolls omg.
The effects of magic is another thing. For example all the fantasy worlds that have powerful (and abundant) healing magic but at the same time people treat death and sickness exactly the same way we do. Or alchemists who can really change other metals into gold but they are still poor and not taken seriously. Cases like this are inconsistent and can be avoided.
The question is if that healing magic is actually supposed to be so abundant in the game world. In my reasoning such magic or it's wielder would be too expensive for most people or only obtainable under specific conditions and it's power is not absolute either. By similar logic you could find extremely powerful modern medicine and the fact that people still die of even the most common infections conflicting, but it's not at all. Also this is something that is closely related to the very gameplay - easily accessible healing potions or magic are enforced by the gameplay and consistency reasoning in such case is not what I'm talking about. But you're right, even if not everything can have a plausible justification in the given universe, major, obvious inconsistencies can be avoided and they should be.
 

Serus

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It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
How does the spell "work" ?
We don't need to know "how", only "what" it does. Magic users in many magical settings don't "know" either. At least in the sense that we understand scientific knowledge. They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
There might be some books that attempt to "rationalise" magic and describe how it works in-depth but those usually aren't game settings. Also ones that describe "magic" that is really a technological leftover of a past civilisation. In those cases an explanation would be in order.
In other cases, why is such knowledge required? The fact that people on real Earth in the past didn't have knowledge of what single cell organisms are, didn't mean that those organism didn't exist back then. In fact, humans were able make some use of them a long time before scientific revolution started. Same assumption with magic in different fantasy settings and there is no risk for internal consistency being destroyed.

The effects of magic is another thing. For example all the fantasy worlds that have powerful (and abundant) healing magic but at the same time people treat death and sickness exactly the same way we do. Or alchemists who can really change other metals into gold but they are still poor and not taken seriously. Cases like this are inconsistent and can be avoided.
In real life there are generalities that make processes happen the way they do whether you understand them or not. There are varying extents of understanding these generalities, anyway this does not necessarily mean that certain things exist only to the extent that people understand them. This is totally different from how you have to overlook so many contradicting factors to accept why a thing works the way it does in a video game. What might make raising an army of skeletons seem fleetingly plausible is ignoring or not thinking about other presumed and existing aspects of the game that conflict with it.
The idea is to not have "conflicting" issues in the first place or at the very least not more than are absolutely needed. To create consistent or at least not completely inconsistent gameworlds. At least in games that aim to be something more than simple murder-hobo simulators in a fantasy theme park. Not that the latter can't be fun, mind you. However others like Darklands, without the attempt to be consistent wouldn't be the same game.
What other aspects? You mean effects of rising skeletons in the gameword? The problem you had before was with inner workings("science") of magic. Now you have with the effects. I don't understand your problem here and why the "conflicting aspects" would be so numerous or couldn't be resolved in case of rising skeletons. At least to the point not being openly nonsensical - within the setting.
In the examples I gave before, you make alchemists very influential in the society or alternatively gold being almost worthless. Add a story how mass production of gold in the past caused a lot of anarchy and butthurt (especially from Gnomes). Voila. Consistency.
 
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Lim-Dûl

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Messages
388
It doesn't need "justification" but it's usually better if it has internal consistency. However I don't think skeletons animated by magic are such a problem. It's how the spell works. No one said that spells and spellcasting is rational or energy efficient.
How does the spell "work" ?
We don't need to know "how", only "what" it does. Magic users in many magical settings don't "know" either. At least in the sense that we understand scientific knowledge. They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
There might be some books that attempt to "rationalise" magic and describe how it works in-depth but those usually aren't game settings. Also ones that describe "magic" that is really a technological leftover of a past civilisation. In those cases an explanation would be in order.
In other cases, why is such knowledge required? The fact that people on real Earth in the past didn't have knowledge of what single cell organisms are, didn't mean that those organism didn't exist back then. In fact, humans were able make some use of them a long time before scientific revolution started. Same assumption with magic in different fantasy settings and there is no risk for internal consistency being destroyed.

The effects of magic is another thing. For example all the fantasy worlds that have powerful (and abundant) healing magic but at the same time people treat death and sickness exactly the same way we do. Or alchemists who can really change other metals into gold but they are still poor and not taken seriously. Cases like this are inconsistent and can be avoided.
In real life there are generalities that make processes happen the way they do whether you understand them or not. There are varying extents of understanding these generalities, anyway this does not necessarily mean that certain things exist only to the extent that people understand them. This is totally different from how you have to overlook so many contradicting factors to accept why a thing works the way it does in a video game. What might make raising an army of skeletons seem fleetingly plausible is ignoring or not thinking about other presumed and existing aspects of the game that conflict with it.
The idea is to not have "conflicting" issues in the first place or at the very least not more than are absolutely needed. To create consistent or at least not completely inconsistent gameworlds. At least in games that aim to be something more than simple murder-hobo simulators in a fantasy theme park. Not that the latter can't be fun, mind you. However others like Darklands, without the attempt to be consistent wouldn't be the same game.
What other aspects? You mean effects of rising skeletons in the gameword? The problem you had before was with inner workings("science") of magic. Now you have with the effects. I don't understand your problem here and why the "conflicting aspects" would be so numerous or couldn't be resolved in case of rising skeletons. At least to the point not being openly nonsensical - within the setting.
In the examples I gave before, you make alchemists very influential in the society or alternatively gold being almost worthless. Add a story how mass production of gold in the past caused a lot of anarchy and butthurt (especially from Gnomes). Voila. Consistency.
I have been and continue to be talking about how raising skeletons in Diablo and such video games doesn't make sense. No one so far has addressed the points raised by Pentium on this.
 

Serus

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They have practical knowledge how to do magic but not how it works.
Yet another horrible fantasy cliché. We are some of the smartest, most eductaed scholars in the world but we don't really get anything and can only hoard old books and scrolls omg..
Pick any of the most brilliant minds of their times living before 20th century. They knew little or nothing about many things that children in 20th-21th century are supposed to learn. What a terrible fantasy cliche... no wait... historical ... no wait again. Not a cliche at all just reality. There are cultures that stagnated for centuries making minimal changes or scientific advancement. In fact most of them, before scientific revolution. I always say that history is best source for fantasy unless you a are a giant imagination and writing. Assumption that something (like magic in a fantasy world) is unknowable - completely or in given circumstances - is not a cliche. No matter how smart one is, there are limits for human (or, I assume, Elf or Dwarf) mind.
It also protects at least some of the feeling of wonder when the magic is used.

So, basically yes, yes we only can do that. The fact that you are a smart and a scholar doesn't mean much. "OMG".
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
There are real, brave female warriors recored in history.
There are women who defended their homes as a last resort.

People who push this shit are responsible for complete fabrications like the bullshit "female viking" myth that media pushed not too long ago until researchers pointed out it was all speculation and likely false. Of course, the media had little interest in running that part of the story.
The principal author’s links to HISTORY channel and its ‘documentary’ series The Real Vikings are not mentioned, yet both this study (with its reconstruction drawings) and Price’s work more generally, espouse a view of research into the Viking Age which fills out our meagre evidence with speculation and imaginative reconstruction. This can lead to the blurring of the line between primary research and public presentation.
No conflict of interest there. No sir. What channel ran the popular Vikings TV series anyways?
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
4,336
-Swimming in armor. It's always hilarious to me in any game. Complete immersion break.

Depends on which armor. In full plate you would drown, but in light armor you should be able to swim to safety.

Armor in general is not depicted correctly. We could have a debate on the general approximation of hit points and what they represent in the abstract but the fact remains the concept of 'punching through armor' with a sword is ridiculous. Plate armor was a full tech tier ahead of medieval weaponry to the point that knights could wail on each other all day long without seriously harming one another. Battles were fought until one side got tired and gave up, then they paid the winners some money. Or they devolved into fist fights and grapples with combatants reaching under each other's armor and pulling their opponents nuts off (true story).

That's ridiculous. There were a lot of weapons such as maces designed to damage armor/person inside. Even full plate has weak spots like knees or armpits (armor needs to bend there, so it's thinner) you can use to hurt your opponent. In reality pushing armored knight tn the ground and finishing him by attacking such spots is a valid tactic.
 

Grampy_Bone

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That's ridiculous.

130lb bow (higher energy than any hand-held weapon) vs breastplate



Tink! (The arrow is HUGE too).

Go ahead and buy some armor, get a hammer, and pound on it until you make a hole in it. See how long it takes. Put it on youtube for us.

Maces and hammers were meant to stun and hopefully put a knight into a more vulnerable state, but were not by themselves 'effective' against armor in the sense you could hit a knight in the chest with a warhammer and he would drop dead. Yes, going for gaps was important, but you're also talking about a resisting opponent who is not going to sit still and let you wind up babe ruth swings on them. The idea that maces were kryptonite to armor is greatly overblown. Historically you consistently see knights choosing swords over maces, probably because they were lighter, more versatile, and had greater reach. Most people drastically underestimate the physical difficulty of wielding a one-handed blunt weapon with all the mass at the end. The longer the handle, the greater the force required to swing it. (I have a splitting axe that weighs all of 4lbs and I dare you to swing it one-handed.) So a warhammer was a bit of a stubby weapon, not that heavy (or it couldn't be swung effectively), and the guy with the sword was going to be able to wail on you without you being able to hit back at all.

Or in other cases, they exhaust all their weapons, and end up beating each other with their fists, such as the duel of Guy of Steenvoorde (like I said):

https://www.medievalists.net/2015/11/the-duel-between-guy-of-steenvoorde-and-iron-herman/

…both fought bitterly. But Guy knocked his adversary from his horse and kept him down easily with his lance as he was struggling to get up. Then his opponent, running nearer, ran Guy’s horse through with his sword, disemboweling it. Sliding from the horse, his sword drawn, Guy attacked his adversary. A continuous and bitter encounter followed with exchanges of sword blows, until, worn out by the weight and burden of their arms, they threw away their shields and hastened to win the fight with their strength in wrestling. Iron Herman fell prostrate to the ground, and Guy threw himself on top of him, pounding the knight’s mouth and eyes with his iron gauntlets. But just as one reads of Antheus, the prostrate man gathered strength bit by bit from the coolness of the ground and slyly made Guy think he was certain of victory while he rested. Meanwhile, having raised his hand very smoothly to the lower edges of the mail coat, where Guy was unprotected, and grabbed him by the testicles, he collected his strength for a single effort and threw him from him, breaking open all the lower parts of his body by this grabbing throw so that the prostrate Guy grew weak and cried out that he was defeated and was going to die.
 
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So a warhammer was a bit of a stubby weapon, not that heavy (or it couldn't be swung effectively), and the guy with the sword was going to be able to wail on you without you being able to hit back at all.
He can wail on you all he likes but if he ever wants to do real damage he's going to have to half-sword into grappling which puts him well into range of the hammer or mace which will have the advantage at that point. The video you posted is good for demonstrating what the finest plate made of the finest steel when shot at the most fortified area can resist. Top shelf, but most soldiers on the field aren't going to have top shelf armor. Grandpa's old mild-steel kettle hat may stop a sword, but not a hammer. Either way, we know that for whatever reason, some still chose hammers and maces over the convenience and versatility of swords, and it wasn't an issue of costs.

To my knowledge, even the best armor tests currently filmed don't fully address the wide range in quality that would be present in battles. Lindy's video is great, so was the test by Tod, Tobias and Joe in 2019, but the fact of the matter is that we have yet to see tests of the thinner sections of period-accurate plate armor.
 

Reinhardt

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Sep 4, 2015
Messages
32,087
This argument is absurd because women in combat itself is stupid.
1. Not true. There are real, brave female warriors recored in history. In games, where the PCs are usually exceptional characters, it's even more plausible.
2. Even if so, that's no excuse for silly armors.
all wommyn warriors should wear chainmail bikinis. fuck your "realism" shit, nigger.
 

Storyfag

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I have been and continue to be talking about how raising skeletons in Diablo and such video games doesn't make sense. No one so far has addressed the points raised by Pentium on this.

These points are not worth addressing. Specifically for Diablo, bones retain enough residue of the original's soul so as to provide the resulting undead with fighting capabilities.
 

Reinhardt

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Messages
32,087
what's the problem with raising skellingtons? literal satan walking the earth himslef with his armies in diablo world.
 

tky

Literate
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Apr 22, 2022
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Mindless grind (like modern GaaS stuff), overly arbitrary thresholds (like gated equipment in Divinity: Original Sin), and, as a general pet peeve of mine, combat that is overly focused on unit deletion over anything else. Although, I'm not super judgemental about this' last one depending on which extra mechanics the game offers in general.

There's also games whose skill progression relies on all-or-nothing investment. Basicaly, you have to add skill points from the get-go and you have to keep pumping them in a consistent maner or you might as well not bother. You fell out of the curve? Now you have to do extra compensation just to make the investment so far not a total waste. A game that I think did this correctly was Fallout New Vegas (if my memory serves me right) since, even if you invest into a skill later, you're still bound to see a check here and there that made your investment worth it, and there's also some big checks early on, in case you decided to over specialize; as well as a decent spread in terms of variety thoughout the world.

Finally, bad quest logging. As much as I like Kingmaker, it was a prime example of a log that offers no pointers for you to remind yourself what your supposed to be doing. On the positive side, there's Morrowind as an example of how to properly do it.
 
Last edited:

Funposter

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Australia
Selecting the only decent portrait during character creation but being unable to have the model matching it close enough.
Then a few hours in you meet a NPC with the same portrait. Unplayable.
This happens in Pathfinder: Kingmaker and it's absolutely bonkers when you consider how easy the portraits are to create in the sense that you just need to commission an artist and that it requires very little oversight. Zero excuse to not have unique portraits for all NPCs.
 
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Lim-Dûl

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I should be able to wear as many rings as I have fingers.
 

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