Let's learn about fighting games and get murdered together.

[HeatEXTEND]

Flowchart Ken might be a meme, but whether or not SF fans like to admit it is an extremely effiecient way to play.
Not saying this works on a pro level, but I don't play at a pro level.

That really only works on the "other guy is a total beginner" level though. Spamming will always be the great gatekeeper in FGs, 2D and 3D, you either learn how to deal with shit while having fun or you get frustrated, cry CHEAP! and quit.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Do you still speak with your Dad?

Yeah. I have one of those family dynamics where you can tell one another to go fuck yourselves and five minutes later forget it was ever said.

 

[c2007]

Do you still speak with your Dad?

Yeah. I have one of those family dynamics where you can tell one another to go fuck yourselves and five minutes later forget it was ever said.

Healthier than silence, so I'll give you that.

Anyways, I guess I'm going to look at a fighting game again for the first time in ages, so again good thread!

 

[DJOGamer PT]

That really only works on the "other guy is a total beginner" level though.

Or DSP

Spamming will always be the great gatekeeper in FGs,

It isn't spamming though, as the player has to how perform the moves and more importantly he has to understand the fundamentals.
So even if very simple it can be called a strategy.

 

[RoBoBOBR]

Posting DSP and some group match between two bottom feeders (they both did not qualify for playoffs, FSP lost all his matches, and Ryu player only had a win over FSP, https://dreamhack.binarybeast.com/xSFT4AE1308050#groups group S) sure does prove your point.

 

[Great Deceiver]

It's funny that you're taking what someone who thinks Tekken 7 has a reasonable risk/reward system (and proclaimed it the 'best in the series' 2 weeks after buying it) and that 2D fighters don't have complex movement - oh, also all you gotta do to win is hadoken/shoryuken d00d - seriously. Oh, he also thinks Smash is a fighting game.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Oh, he also thinks Smash is a fighting game.

It is though.

Spoiler

DSP

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Posting DSP and some group match between two bottom feeders (they both did not qualify for playoffs, FSP lost all his matches, and Ryu player only had a win over FSP, https://dreamhack.binarybeast.com/xSFT4AE1308050#groups group S) sure does prove your point.

The DSP match wasn't meant to prove anything (well... maybe the fact DSP sucks :D)

The other match, besides also being pretty fun (look at how the guy just gets progressively fed up with Gandhi), was simply me saying that the flowchart ken can't really be considered spamming because spamming is mindless, as in there's no purpose behind your actions. But a strategy because it has purpose and you need to at least dencently understand the basics.

Which the guy in that video shows he does and isn't spamming: he only jabs when he's at close range, which means he understands that fast attacks are preferable at that distance; he uses fireballs at a safe distance to zone out the opponent; for the most part he times well his anti-air attacks; he knows how to pressure a downed opponent (he does some meaty jab and even well timed throw when the fat man is getting up); when he is knocked down he uses invencible reversals to stop pressure; and finally he seems to be unpredictable with his rushdow jump attacks.

It's funny that you're taking what someone who thinks Tekken 7 has a reasonable risk/reward system (and proclaimed it the 'best in the series'

Well it's either 7 or DR really.
As for risk/reward. Tekken sure isn't VF5FS, but like I said in a previous post no other figthing game is. But it's unfair to say there's no good risk/reward in it - if that was the case then both DR and 7 couldn't be called balanced games (which they are) and the series wouldn't have attracted the harcore following it's been getting these last few years.
I think sometimes people get the wrong idea about risk/reward and put themselves at a disadvantage as a result, or mix-up scenarios as guessing games and don't really want to analyze the situation fully.

It's funny that you're taking what someone who thinks ... that 2D fighters don't have complex movement

No actually what I think is that you can't read very well because I never said that.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

SMASH ISN'T A FIGHTING GAME!!!

It is though.

Spoiler

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Sad reality is online fighting games are still stuck in a dark age of not moving past Sega Dreamcast tier online. Netcode in fighting games almost always sucks because developers put it on the back burner of things to improve on, even though it's the lifeblood of replayability.

The only games I've played that have ever had good netcode was KI 2013 and MKX when they fixed it up in 2016. But a win is a win, fuck Smash Bros.

I think it's mostly going to suck because they're Japanese developers, and it sounds like the online works perfectly fine for Japan...which has very good internet.

Them being Japanese developers also seems to be why they don't use GGPO.

 

[just]

japan started thinking about rollback netcode recently. they'll get there eventually.

also after complete, final, definitve edition of street fighter, we'll get another season with 5 new chars.

 

[Silly Germans]

Does someone play Soul Calibur 6 ? The legendary difficulty in arcade is giving me trouble, are there any simple tactics to beat it ?

 

[Silverfish]

Play as Inferno. 6A+B and 6B.

 

[throwaway69420]

When’s The King of Fighters XIII?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

When’s The King of Fighters XIII?

2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII

More important question is, when's Virtua Figther 6?

 

[Adon]

When’s The King of Fighters XIII?

2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII

More important question is, when's Virtua Figther 6?

One can only dream.

 

[Silverfish]

Nah, it Virtua Fighter were to ever return, there's the possibility the devs would cave to the pressure to bring the series "up to speed" with modern dogshit fighting game design. If the choices are no VF at all, or VF with super moves and meter-based shenanigans, I'll pick the former.

 

[Darkforge]

This is so adorable seeing a fighting game thread on the dex. /popcorn

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Virtua Fighter would likely be hit with needless shit like Tekken was to try and make it more accessible. Things like rage mechanics or super moves or some other hogwash meant to do a metric fuckload of damage for little effort. It's sad to see what they did to Guilty Gear with Strive where a single command grab last I saw can do nearly 40% of your life. I was never a huge GG fan but Xrd is a really solid fighting game they should either build off of or use as reference when designing new systems instead of trying to desperately make things accessible.

If you want your fighting game to sell well to the casual audience, not a single one of them actually gives a fuck about the systems or complexity of them. They want good offline content and an interesting roster.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I think another equally important reason (if not the most important one) is that these changes are made so the games seem more spectacular, therefore attracting a larger spectator audience and get those sweet sponsor bucks.

But IMO I don't think this can really last. These are competitive games, reducing skill gap inevitably damages their appeal.
The only reason Tekken became so popular these last few years is it because it was one of the few that retained it's legacy skill (despite it's changes).

Besisdes I don't know if the VF team would reduce it, specially considering VF is not a particularly popular series. The majority of buyers SEGA would have if brought the series back would be it's hardcore fanbase.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I'm a lifelong fan of Virtua Fighter and have played since around 96 or so when VF3 hit arcades (still my favourite VF).

VF has already been hit with bastardization and Tekken-like qualities - VF5 (and yes, even FS) is a vastly inferior game to VF4:FT, which few people outside of Japan got the opportunity to play. VF5:FS is full of Tekken bullshit (although pared down compared to that game) like bounce combos, extended wall combos, busted risk/reward, bastardized throws, braindead option select, etc.

VF6 is a pipe dream, and if it ever comes out, I have no doubt that it will be even worse than VF5.

 

[Cromwell]

So what do the experienced players say to samurai shodown. I can get it for a reasonable price for xbox one x but I am undecided yet but I am itching to learn something and play while cursing on my couch.

 

[Silverfish]

VF5 (and yes, even FS) is a vastly inferior game to VF4:FT,

That's not fair. Every fighting game is inferior to FT.

 

[bert]

So what do the experienced players say to samurai shodown. I can get it for a reasonable price for xbox one x but I am undecided yet but I am itching to learn something and play while cursing on my couch.

It's a nice choice for a fighting game you can pick up and play. It has neutral/footsies based gameplay with very few combos outside basic links like medium slash into special so FG veterans and beginners alike don't have to worry about execution that much. Issen mechanics are kinda meh and feel too comeback heavy - once a person activates rage burst, you are now threatened by a full screen dash attack that hits jump-ins and whiff punishes just about everything for 70% or more of your health. The playerbase isn't large compared to other mainstream games however and PS4 is probably the most active version.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I'm a lifelong fan of Virtua Fighter and have played since around 96 or so when VF3 hit arcades (still my favourite VF).

VF has already been hit with bastardization and Tekken-like qualities - VF5 (and yes, even FS) is a vastly inferior game to VF4:FT, which few people outside of Japan got the opportunity to play. VF5:FS is full of Tekken bullshit (although pared down compared to that game) like bounce combos, extended wall combos, busted risk/reward, bastardized throws, braindead option select, etc.

VF6 is a pipe dream, and if it ever comes out, I have no doubt that it will be even worse than VF5.

Nah.
With the exception of throw clash (which were removed in FS), VF5 and the later versions of 4 are pretty similar, there's no such drastatic changes as you've just described.
I would say the difference to VF4FT to VF5FS is the same difference between T5 and T5DR - the same game only with a couple new characters and a great deal of tweaks to make the game more balanced and ultimately fun.
Altough one noticeable change in 5 that does makes it resemble Tekken (perhaps what has lead you to those conclusions) is to the overall game feel.

As for it being a pipe dream, well...
DMC5 was also a pipe dream for 1 decade.
Hell a good 2D Sonic game was also a pipe dream 20+ years, then in 2018 Sonic Mania was released.
And they both turned out to be the great games. So there's hope...