Incline JRPG rebalance and difficulty mods/hacks - in-depth discussion

[Gilius Thunderhead]

JRPGs offer gameplay that is usually centered around specially designed systems which, while often highly original and promising, do not live up to the expectations they create, as they're either too unbalanced or the difficulty is cranked down to much to appeal to casual gamers. Therefore, I think they tend to benefit from sincere and thoughtful attempts at changing some of their features in order to fix some of their problems, as well as to make them more appealing to experienced players.

There are all kinds of mods(and modders), though. While browsing the interwebs, it's difficult, sometimes impossible to find reliable, systematic information on what a mod does. Lists of features often require familiarity with specific game mechanics to understand. One usually finds the odd thread on Gamefaqs or Reddit, in which a mod is lauded as amazing or dismissed as "not my thing". Very rarely does one find direct comparison of mods for the popular games that have them. Playing JRPGs is a time consuming affair, so it'd be nice to have a place where that discussion could be had by gentlemen of good taste, saving us all a good amount of time while promoting general incline.

Some useful goalposts for our discussion:
- Level and type of challenge; are battles challenging in an interesting way, or full of some repetitive gameplay loop? are the enemies just spongy? are there weird difficulty spikes? did you have to grind to overcome certain challenges?
- how close is it to the vanilla experience? does it make changes to the dialogue or story? does it make any sort of tasteless or questionable additions?
- does it have additional gameplay content, or is strictly rebalancing? does it remove features?
- would a new player be OK in dispensing with the original if they don't have time to play both?
- how does it compare with other mods if you've played them?

I don't consider playing the original, vanilla game indispensable to have a valuable opinion on a mod. Some will disagree, which is fine.

To kick things off, I'll put up a list based on a thread I found elsewhere by a guy who goes by the name tacticalcraptical(thank you for your service), of mods that seem worth a look. I've cleaned it up a bit and added more information when necessary(mainly authors for every mod). Perhaps a few of the gentlemen here have played some of them and will share their thoughts. As for myself, I'm only a modest, rainy day JRPG enjoyer and I've only played a small number of them.

7th Saga
7th Saga+ by RedX

Breath of Fire 2
Breath of Fire II Maeson by Maeson

Breath of Fire 3
Hard-rebalanced mod (you may also find it as Myria's Blessing) by Llewellyn (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/196817-breath-of-fire-iii/76709898)

Castlevania Symphony of the Night
HardType by LandonRay

Chrono Trigger
Lavos' Awakening by zombero
Level Zero by Maelstrom
Valeria Re-Balance by Windows X

Chrono Cross
Time's Anguish by LandonRay

Dragon Warrior 3
HardType by Zombero

Dragon Quest 8
HardType by LandonRay

Earthbound
Mother 2 Deluxe by Messianic

Final Fantasy 1
Adamant Edition by praetarius5018
Mod of Balance by Jeff Ludwig(ludmeister)

Final Fantasy 2
Mod of Balance by Jeff Ludwig(ludmeister)

Final Fantasy 3
Final Fantasy 3 Maeson by Maeson
Redux by Spindaboy

Final Fantasy 4
Unprecedented Crisis by Pinkpuff
Darkness Within by Rynzer
Born of a Dragon by MGE
...I've noticed some interesting looking randomizer mods such as Lunarian Shuffle and Free Enterprise. They are outside the scope of this thread, but feel free to discuss them.

Final Fantasy 5
Void Divergence by praetarius5018

Final Fantasy 6
T-Edition by Tsushiy
Hardtype by Eternal248
Brave New World by BTB and Synchysi

Final Fantasy 7
New Threat by Sega Chief
Hardcore by Gjoerulv
HardType by GalenMyra
Platinum by Dr. Dimension

Final Fantasy 8
Requiem by Landonray
Ragnarok/Lionheart by Callisto

Final Fantasy 9
Alternate Fantasy by Tirlititi
Unleashed by LandonRay

Final Fantasy 10
Punishment by LandonRay
Sin Reborn by XenusVale

Final Fantasy 10-2
Hard Mode by Gundora

Final Fantasy 12
The Struggle for Freedom by Eternal248
Foreign Lands by tytaurus0

Final Fantasy Tactics
1.3 by Archael
Emergence by PowerPanda

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
X by FFTA
Grim Grimoire by Eternal248

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2
Promise Rewritten by Kuro

Golden Sun
Fallen Star by Vanish Mantle
Reloaded by Caledor

Golden Sun: The Lost Age
Risen Star by Vanish Mantle
Reloaded by Caledor

Grandia
ReDux by Dunal

Grandia 2
Hard Type Mod by Woog

Legend of the Dragoon
Dragoon Modifier by Zynchronix

Lufia 2
Age of the Sinistrals by praetarius5018

Super Mario RPG
Armageddon by DarkKefka and Doomsday31415

Paper Mario
Pro Mode by Clover

Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga
Critical and Hardcore mods by AzureYoshi

Skies of Arcadia Legends
Skies of Arcadia Legends Maeson by Maeson

Suikoden
Hard Mode by Jarlaxle

Suikoden 2
Hardcore by Choirboy

Secret of Mana 3
Sin of Mana by praetarius5018

Legend of Mana
Combat Redux by MeshGearFox

Shadow Hearts
Imbroglio by zedorfed66

Shadow Hearts Covenant
Godslayer by zedorfed66

Shadow Hearts From The New World
Grace by zedorfed66

Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne
Hardtype by Zombero

Shin Megami Tensei - Persona 4
Hardtype by Landonray

Shining Force 2
Shining Tactics+ by Dark Claw
Shining Force II Maeson by Maeson

Tactics Ogre
One Vision by raics

Trails of Cold Steel
Difficulty mod by SoftBrilliant

Trails of Cold Steel 2
Difficulty and Rebalance by Bison

Trails of Cold Steel 3
Difficulty mod by SoftBrilliant

Vagrant Story
Zenith by the_E_y_Es (https://vszenith.wordpress.com)

Valkyria Chronicles
Gallian Crossfire by busards

Xenogears
HardType by Landonray

Xenosaga Ep. 1
HardType by Landonray

Xenosaga 2
HardType by Landonray

Xenosaga 3
HardType by Landonray

Please suggest improvements to this list if you have any. I didn't include any Pokemanz games as they have their own ecosystem and there's more stuff there than everything else combined, but if you're a Pokemanz expert, be my guest.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I'll open with the last thing I've played:

Final Fantasy 8 - Ragnarok mod, Lionheart mode by Callisto
(check the Qhimm forums for more information and updates)

There are two worthwhile mods for FF8 afaik: Requiem and Ragnarok(the latter with an increased difficulty variant, Lionheart). Also, a quick note on FF8 versions: play the 2013 Steam release and make sure it's updated to the last version(from 2014, I believe), which allows you to toggle fast forward. The older CD version and the "Remaster" I wouldn't recommend, as they have either less support or offer tasteless graphical changes.

Requiem is an older mod; it started as a PS1 romhack, but its latest version is for the Steam 2013 release; its creator, LandonRay, is known for other high quality difficulty/rebalance mods(check them out at the NG+ site). Of those, I've played his mods Unleashed for FFIX and Time's Anguish for Chrono Cross. I think Requiem is a bit more hardcore than both of those and I'd be less ready to recommend it to a new player, while I wouldn't have any problem doing so for the others. I also think Ragnarok is a more accomplished, more thoughtful and balanced mod and its variant Lionheart offers a similar degree of difficulty for those that wish it.

Now, I've played Requiem around 5 years ago, while I've just played Lionheart, so I may be biased towards the latter. I've also forgotten many details about Requiem. I'm only going to talk about Lionheart here, the hard type variant of Ragnarok, and not the normal variant, since that's the one I've played, although I assume they're very similar except for things like enemy stats. If you're new to the game and don't want a very hard challenge, you're probably better off just playing normal Ragnarok. The most complete and regularly updated version is for the 2013 Steam version. Requiem hasn't been updated in a long time and LandonRay was MIA for several years(he recently resurfaced on the NG+ forums).

I'll divide my observations on Lionheart in bullet points to make them easier to read. First, some notes on the difficulty:

• Challenging for veterans, but not brutal or "hardcore", although some fights can become so if you haven't done all the optional content. Overall easier than Requiem, but not much easier(less than I expected). Requiem had more difficulty spikes in some bosses, while Lionheart's difficulty is more flat. You're still expected to do all the optional content, otherwise you may have a rough time in some places.
• Some bosses have updated AI routines and will try to counter your strategies. For example, Diablos will use Stop against you if you draw cast Demi on him. I didn't find them spongy, except in one case, a modded extra boss(yes, there's a couple) in Lunatic Pandora.
• I should mention this right now, but I've been playing with no stock drawing, only using drawing points and refining. I found this doesn't affect the difficulty substantially and the game is better this way.
• The early game is relatively easy(a bit too much, perhaps), unless you take on additional challenges like 10 minute Ifrit cave, early Diablos, defeating the Dollet robot spider or killing T-Rexaur. Killing the T-Rex is too RNG based for my liking(get critted it's game over), but the other challenges are extremely fun.
• By the second Laguna dream sequence the game is already much harder (I died a couple of times during the last fight, because I was saving on resources). The second Edea fight is brutal if you haven't done all the optional content the game has expected you to do (I didn't have Tonberry or a SPD-J junction, so I had a hard time).
• I haven't played Ultimecia's castle in either mod yet, so I won't talk about it for now. From what I've seen on Youtube, the last battle is a brutal 2 hour slog in Requiem.
• Lionheart has an optional No-Exp mode that doesn't rely on exploits (it's done through a GF ability). Like Requiem, Ragnarok/Lionheart has no level scaling so, unlike vanilla, not levelling does make the game harder. Playing Lionheart that way probably puts its difficulty even higher or at least at the level of Requiem.
• I didn't grind at all before Disc 3 in either mod, so if anyone calls them grindy they just need to git gud(doing optional content and properly junctioning is not grinding).

Some additional notes on gameplay:

• Enemies get more turns in relation to the player. This limits the usefulness of Limit Break spam, one of the core weaknesses of combat in the original(maintained in Requiem).
• You don't need to draw GFs from bosses anymore, you get them automatically after battle. I'm very thankful for this.
• You don't need to fight 30 Tonberries anymore, only 8 or 10(I didn't count).
• Attacks can break the damage limit. This makes Quistis much more useful and makes casting the more expensive spells more worthwhile.
• Magic is more powerful overall. Some spells that only inflicted status effects, now do additional damage making them more useful (Pain, Break).
• No Aura(likewise in Requiem), but there Aura stones, a very rare item. There's a new rare spell, Renew, that casts Regen, Protect and Shell. No Ultimas in Shumi Village(now Quake). It's also harder to get rare spells through refining.
• Characters have more defined roles and they level up accordingly. This is always debatable, but it does make some characters more useful, specially the girls.
• Selfie is the most powerful character in the early game, where nothing comes close to a 2x Flare or 3x Quake. Her fluff low level spells have been removed. Later on, she loses her place to Quistis' more reliable White Wind, Mighty Guard and some heavyweight offensive spells. Rinoa has the highest natural MAG stat, but so far I've found her underwhelming. Angelo Cannon does negligible damage. I haven't taught her all her limits yet, though.
• Zell is maybe too nerfed, at least in the early game before you get all the good moves. At best I've approached the damage of a weak Renzokuken, but that takes no effort. Irvine seems well balanced, better than Squall in specific circumstances(fire damage, status effects, dealing with groups), otherwise slightly inferior. Squall himself seems just right; a bit weaker than vanilla, as can be expected.
• Summoning GFs is probably viable in the normal Ragnarok, but in Lionheart they have very low survivability and the payoff isn't nearly large enough (often less damage than a double casted spell), therefore I've largely ignored summoning them. In addition, no one's going to choose prioritizing the damage boost abilities for GFs in lieu of abilities that let you junction or refine stuff. This is wasted potential, imo.
• Some refining rules were changed, as they were too cheap. Card Mod is still very useful, but doesn't break the game all by itself. By the end of Disc 1 I was still using Aeros and Demis and I wasn't fully stocked on -aga spells until Disc 3.
• He seems to have given some better cards to low level players to make the card game more challenging. However, this makes the very early game unduly hard. Unless you're a godless reprobate savescummer, you should have at least some level 3 cards before starting to play. Give us some newbies to play against in Balamb, at least.

Why I think Lionheart is better than Requiem:

• More even challenge with fewer difficulty spikes. If I want more challenge, I think I'd play No-Exp Lionheart first before replaying Requiem. That said, I also found a couple of bosses in Lionheart a bit too easy (Gerogero, Oilboyles) and in those cases I preferred the challenge of Requiem.
• The player is not as fast compared to the enemy. This translates into less limit break spam(I've had boss fights were I've barely used them). In Requiem, fights often consisted of Squall just dishing out Renzos while the other two chars played support.
• Contains an engine tweak that makes time not advance when you're selecting targets if you're playing on Wait(the settings option). I prefer to play this way.
• QoL features like not needing to draw GFs from bosses or having to fight 30 Tonberries(I can't remember if Requiem changed this, I don't think it did).
• Some extra rewards for optional challenges when they make sense (e.g. completing the Ifrit cave in 10 mins).
• Some additional bosses as optional content.
• You start out with some spells, including tactically useful stuff like Protect, so you don't have to grind with Quistis before the cave. This is what first gave me the idea of doing a no stock drawing run. It also changes some drawing points to make them more useful (some Protect in the mountains behind Garden, Double in the library). World map drawing points are still hidden and largely useless and don't work as a reward for exploration.
• No GF Boost, a retarded mechanic from vanilla.
• Card Mod is available from the early game, but balanced so it doesn't break the game. I like playing cards and I like Card Mod, so this is a big plus in my book.

Verdict: new players should play Ragnarok instead of vanilla (Lionheart if they like a bit of punishment). Requiem is still a worthwhile choice for veterans, but I'd now put it in second place compared to Lionheart.

 

[Damned Registrations]

...I've noticed some interesting looking randomizer mods such as Lunarian Shuffle and Free Enterprise. They are outside the scope of this thread, but feel free to discuss them.

I actually highly recommend these in general for people who've played the original games or enjoy roguelikes. I've played the FF4 Free Eterprise one perhaps a dozen times, and perhaps 3/4ths of a playthrough of one for FF5.

-They're highly customizable, letting you select which things are randomized, how random they are (i.e. do you want excalibur showing up in the first dungeon or not; I recommend not) and let you toggle a bunch of other features like bug fixes, removed content, and other balance or gameplay elements people have come up with over the years, including alternate victory conditions or means of recruiting characters.

-In the case of FF4 and FF5, the bosses are randomized. This means they'll have stats appropriate to their location, but the moveset appropriate to their name and appearance. This can make for some wild boss fights when you take enemies with overtuned spells and undertuned stats and give them good stats. Lots of formerly trivial fights become potentially very difficult.

-Generally speaking, these are designed to be played with random encounters disabled, and they remove the story cutscenes as well. This means you get straight up gameplay, and an entire playthrough might take somewhere in the range of 1-5 hours.

-By randomizing the locations of 'key items' (things central to the plot, such as a key to a dungeon, a vehicle, or a crystal that triggers a cutscene in a particular castle once you've had it, etc.) the game essentially becomes an open world exploration game. Rather than simply proceeding in linear fashion, you will hop from place to place, looking for good party members and equipment to become stronger, easy bosses to take out early, strong bosses to come back for later, and if you're interested in trying to win the game as fast as possible there is a ton of strategy that goes into deciding which areas to visit in which order, skipping locations, and so forth. If you're not familiar with the games, it also makes for an interesting exploration game as you won't remember which area you're supposed to take the harp to unlock a new boss fight and whatever rewards that fight might entail. Don't shuffle the key items in with regular ones; these should be shuffled amongst themselves + summon locations.

-Caveat: Not all randomizers are good. Plenty of them just lazily shuffle all enemy stats or equipment stats or locations, leading to dumb gameplay where you just go shopping for 5 minutes until you find an endgame weapon or spell for 3 gold and then steamroll the game. FF1 has a randomizer of that variety. Avoid.

 

[Falksi]

Shining Force 2's "War of The Gods" mod is supposed to be good, but I've not played it yet. Planning on doing so next year.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Super Mario RPG
Armageddon by DarkKefka and Doomsday31415

I've seen a bit of this. Seems to really emphasize the QTE shit in combat, which sounds awful. Would rather play a hack that disables that part entirely and balances around that.

Final Fantasy Tactics
1.3 by Archael
Emergence by PowerPanda

I recall Spekkio did a partial LP of this years ago, until he got stuck on one of the boses. I got him to give me the savefile so I could try the fight he was stuck on and it was very doable despite his, ah, questionable decisions for how to build his team. However, I've played the ever loving shit out of FFT and knows all of it's quirks; I wouldn't recommend the hardtype for someone new to the game, since it's complicated as hell and it's easy to not realize the various tricks that can change an encounter from being impossible to fairly easy.

7th Saga
7th Saga+ by RedX

Dear god why would anyone want to make this game harder? Maybe it's easy on certain characters, but when I've tried playing you tend to get splatted by various enemies or bosses quite easily.

 

[deuxhero]

The "Mangs" rebalance for Fire Emblem: Binding Blade is pretty good, fixing the horrible balance issues and ambush spawns of that game with relatively minimal changes. I think the improvements to the final boss (which is just a total joke in the original) is overtuned and the formerly ambush spawns that spawn behind the player should have spawned a turn earlier (they often struggle to actually reach the advancing player since they lose a turn of movement), but it's otherwise very well done.

Breath of Fire 2
Breath of Fire II Maeson by Maeson

Worth playing if you've already played the game and want to do the retranslation. Feels very vanilla instead of romhacky, but genuinely fixes how many of the party members are just plain old useless compared to others. I think (A)spar(a) is the biggest beneficiary of buffs.

 

[Terra]

I played through FF7 New Threat 2.0 over a year ago now and I was very impressed by how far FF7 hacking & mods had come. It delivered a fresh, different and sometimes challenging experience for me as a returning player who completed the original a stupid number of times back in the day. They pulled off quite a few things I never would have imagined were possible within the confines of FF7. Sadly my playthrough was long enough ago now that I can't remember most of the details except to say I'd definitely highly recommend fans of the original give it a go if they are ever considering a replay. Combined with the field map upscales and one of the big model upgrade packs, it was a great experience overall.

While it's not a difficulty/rebalance mod, I've also had my eye on Succession for FF8 which seems to be essentially a rewrite of most of the game to make it a better experience. Given the liberties New Threat took with FF7, I'm open to seeing a different take on 8's story. Seems FF8 modding is somewhat messier than 7's though so combining it with a gameplay rebalance might be more of a faff than I'd like to undertake atm, but I haven't really looked into things too closely. Personally myself, I'd want Succession + a rebalance & the remaster's graphics but seems that combo is off the table for the moment anyway. I'll look more into it in the future.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I played through FF7 New Threat 2.0 over a year ago now and I was very impressed by how far FF7 hacking & mods had come. It delivered a fresh, different and sometimes challenging experience for me as a returning player who completed the original a stupid number of times back in the day. They pulled off quite a few things I never would have imagined were possible within the confines of FF7. Sadly my playthrough was long enough ago now that I can't remember most of the details except to say I'd definitely highly recommend fans of the original give it a go if they are ever considering a replay. Combined with the field map upscales and one of the big model upgrade packs, it was a great experience overall.

While it's not a difficulty/rebalance mod, I've also had my eye on Succession for FF8 which seems to be essentially a rewrite of most of the game to make it a better experience. Given the liberties New Threat took with FF7, I'm open to seeing a different take on 8's story. Seems FF8 modding is somewhat messier than 7's though so combining it with a gameplay rebalance might be more of a faff than I'd like to undertake atm, but I haven't really looked into things too closely. Personally myself, I'd want Succession + a rebalance & the remaster's graphics but seems that combo is off the table for the moment anyway. I'll look more into it in the future.

I played New Threat 1.5 a few years ago and had a great experience. I liked the changes to the equipment, making some of the early stuff useful until much later in the game. Being able to control how characters level and being able to turn Barret into a tanky mage or Tifa into a glass cannon was a very welcome change. I also appreciated the QoL changes like taking you to Fort Condor whenever you wanted.

That said, the mod takes some liberties with the script. I hadn't played the game in 20 years, so I can't really remember what things were changed exactly (there are a few jokes and easter eggs, but really out of the way, they didn't bother me). I know Ash is critical of the mod and vouches for GalenMyra's HardType instead, but so far I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two.

I must add that Sega Chief seems like a pretty cool guy for a modder, I've always seen him being helpful and considerate to others, including other modders.

I'd be wary of Succession. From what I've seen, it's just a deluded modder injecting his own headcanon into the game. Not only does he rewrite basically every dialogue, changing its tone, he does away with key plot elements like Ultimecia's time compression. I'll be the first to admit there are some things wrong with FF8's narrative, but I don't think some modder knows better than the developers about the story they wanted to tell.

 

[TwoEdge]

7th Saga
7th Saga+ by RedX

Dear god why would anyone want to make this game harder? Maybe it's easy on certain characters, but when I've tried playing you tend to get splatted by various enemies or bosses quite easily.

7th Saga's difficulty was a factor of severely reduced stat growths on level-ups in the US version that required an absurd amount of grinding to compensate for. The Japanese version was quite easier in comparison. From what I understand this hack eliminates the need to farm XP while making changes to balance that make the game more interesting, such as giving resists, vulnerabilities, and exploits to enemies to keep you on your toes.

I keep putting off a playthrough with the Saga+ hack, but I played the redux version a while ago and it was a significant improvement over the original.

 

[Crayll]

Golden Sun
Fallen Star by Vanish Mantle
Reloaded by Caledor

Golden Sun: The Lost Age
Risen Star by Vanish Mantle
Reloaded by Caledor

I may try one of these. I have undeserved nostalgia for GS, but that aside it did have some decent ideas with the djinn system and changing classes mid-battle, it was just so piss easy you never really needed to strategize around that.

 

[Ash]

Why I think FF8 Lionheart is better than Requiem:

• More even challenge with fewer difficulty spikes. If I want more challenge, I think I'd play No-Exp Lionheart first before replaying Requiem. That said, I also found a couple of bosses in Lionheart a bit too easy (Gerogero, Oilboyles) and in those cases I preferred the challenge of Requiem.
• The player is not as fast compared to the enemy. This translates into less limit break spam(I've had boss fights were I've barely used them). In Requiem, fights often consisted of Squall just dishing out Renzos while the other two chars played support.
• Contains an engine tweak that makes time not advance when you're selecting targets if you're playing on Wait(the settings option). I prefer to play this way.
• QoL features like not needing to draw GFs from bosses or having to fight 30 Tonberries(I can't remember if Requiem changed this, I don't think it did).
• Some extra rewards for optional challenges when they make sense (e.g. completing the Ifrit cave in 10 mins).
• Some additional bosses as optional content.
• You start out with some spells, including tactically useful stuff like Protect, so you don't have to grind with Quistis before the cave. This is what first gave me the idea of doing a no stock drawing run. It also changes some drawing points to make them more useful (some Protect in the mountains behind Garden, Double in the library). World map drawing points are still hidden and largely useless and don't work as a reward for exploration.
• No GF Boost, a retarded mechanic from vanilla.
• Card Mod is available from the early game, but balanced so it doesn't break the game. I like playing cards and I like Card Mod, so this is a big plus in my book.

Verdict: new players should play Ragnarok instead of vanilla (Lionheart if they like a bit of punishment). Requiem is still a worthwhile choice for veterans, but I'd now put it in second place compared to Lionheart.

Interesting. As a requiem fan that has not played Lionheart, a lot of this does sound good, but not all. I have questions and concerns:

No GF Boost, a retarded mechanic from vanilla.

Is it though? What's retarded is the goddamn length of the GF animation. If I have to watch that shit every time 100x over, at least give me something to do as lame as it may be. Unless the modder can find a way to shorten the entire sequence then that is preferred, but given it seems this was not done then leave my autistic awesome button alone.

Some additional bosses as optional content.

Are they high quality and seamlessly integrated into the game that you'd mistake them for vanilla if you were a new player? I accept no less than that.

QoL features like not needing to draw GFs from bosses or having to fight 30 Tonberries(I can't remember if Requiem changed this, I don't think it did).

Tonberry change, great. Not having to draw GF's from bosses...what's the big deal? It encourages even using draw on bosses in the first place (typically a good idea to at least check for stock or draw-cast opportunities) as well as placing an optional (but not really, because they are that important) secondary objective to the fight to handle while also trying to survive. It also means draw (ability) is important and should be junctioned on at least one character for bosses, crowding command abilities (if you want others, sacrifice item or even magic). It's a good thing!

In Requiem, fights often consisted of Squall just dishing out Renzos while the other two chars played support.

Very late game requiem battles do be that, where you're often being one-hit KO-ed over and over so may as well just use life instead of full-life, but the entire rest of the game no. Keeping stocked on HP is better, with opportunistic limit breaks here and there. As it should be. Late game requiem isn't perfect, the only real issue I have with the mod, though make no mistake it's still far better than vanilla ofc. How strategic and deep Ultimacea's castle is with the mod just RPG bliss.

More even challenge with fewer difficulty spikes. If I want more challenge, I think I'd play No-Exp Lionheart first before replaying Requiem. That said, I also found a couple of bosses in Lionheart a bit too easy (Gerogero, Oilboyles) and in those cases I preferred the challenge of Requiem.

Never, ever play low level runs. That takes like 60% of the gameplay content out of these games in the name of challenge....when you can just install a good romhack.
Anyways, since you see fit to recommend Lionheart for newbies, while requiem is not (pretty damn hardcore indeed), this means I have to write it off (for me as a vet with multiple playthroughs). As hardcore is exactly what I want. Hardcore is how all the systems come together and synergize rather than just spamming a simple strategy and not needing to optimize your gameplay or adapt strategies to situations.

Does Lionheart nerf all the same things as requiem of great importance? e.g STR cannot be buffed to insane degrees anymore which results in offensive magic use actually have purpose. Eden's Forbidden Medice refine ability was removed so you can't spam megaelixirs or grind permanent stat-boosters. Enemies hit hard so GF die a lot and spamming them is no longer reliable lameness. I saw you wrote Aura nerf is in there which is good.

Lastly, your list is missing Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Hardtype, also by LandonRay. Definitely has my recommendation and hugely important for replays.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

No GF Boost, a retarded mechanic from vanilla.

Is it though? What's retarded is the goddamn length of the GF animation. If I have to watch that shit every time 100x over, at least give me something to do as lame as it may be. Unless the modder can find a way to shorten the entire sequence then that is preferred, but given it seems this was not done then leave my autistic awesome button alone.

Pressing a button really fast is a gimmick. In Metal Gear Solid you appropriately do it as part of a torture sequence and only then.

Some additional bosses as optional content.

Are they high quality and seamlessly integrated into the game that you'd mistake them for vanilla if you were a new player? I accept no less than that.

They're more like easter eggs tucked away in certain areas to provide a challenge to experienced players and an incentive to return to certain areas. They're basically older bosses with a different color palette and different stats/routines(more than that is probably impossible). I found one of them to be pretty HP bloaty, but that was an exception. Integration is tasteful and seamless, imo.

QoL features like not needing to draw GFs from bosses or having to fight 30 Tonberries(I can't remember if Requiem changed this, I don't think it did).

Tonberry change, great. Not having to draw GF's from bosses...what's the big deal? It encourages even using draw on bosses in the first place (typically a good idea to at least check for stock or draw-cast opportunities) as well as placing an optional (but not really, because they are that important) secondary objective to the fight to handle while also trying to survive. It also means draw (ability) is important and should be junctioned on at least one character for bosses, crowding command abilities (if you want others, sacrifice item or even magic). It's a good thing!

As a new player, I'm autistic about missing content, but as a recurring player I often forget to do certain things. So I agree with you in principle, but nowadays I prefer to get GFs automatically. Ideally it should be a setting.

In Requiem, fights often consisted of Squall just dishing out Renzos while the other two chars played support.

Very late game requiem battles do be that, where you're often being one-hit KO-ed over and over so may as well just use life instead of full-life, but the entire rest of the game no. Keeping stocked on HP is better, with opportunistic limit breaks here and there. As it should be. Late game requiem isn't perfect, the only real issue I have with the mod, though make no mistake it's still far better than vanilla ofc. How strategic and deep Ultimacea's castle is with the mod just RPG bliss.

It's a very conscious design choice to make Limit Break spam less viable and play more defensively. I thought this was a problem with some Requiem boss fights. I normally stop playing before Ultimecia for some reason, I wish I had persisted with both mods.

More even challenge with fewer difficulty spikes. If I want more challenge, I think I'd play No-Exp Lionheart first before replaying Requiem. That said, I also found a couple of bosses in Lionheart a bit too easy (Gerogero, Oilboyles) and in those cases I preferred the challenge of Requiem.

Never, ever play low level runs. That takes like 60% of the gameplay content out of these games in the name of challenge....when you can just install a good romhack.
Anyways, since you see fit to recommend Lionheart for newbies, while requiem is not (pretty damn hardcore indeed), this means I have to write it off (for me as a vet with multiple playthroughs). As hardcore is exactly what I want. Hardcore is how all the systems come together and synergize rather than just spamming a simple strategy and not needing to optimize your gameplay or adapt strategies to situations.

I hate removing a gameplay feature just for challenge, but I also want to play at my limit. I wish Lionheart would be tad harder at points, but I'm also not completely happy with Requiem. The difficulty of some battles was great, but occasionally I felt there was only one possible strategy. It also pushes away Card Mod into a late game ability iirc, and other pet peeves. Not to mention that in some battles Lionheart might actually be harder, but don't quote me on that.

Thankfully for that purpose, leveling is not such a big deal in FF8, it's just a flat increase to your stats. I'd rather forego leveling than any other thing, like refining, card mod, junctioning. From my testing, around the time I wrote the OP, the loss of one GF ability for "No-Exp" was a greater limitation. I also had to edit my save file so everyone would be at the same level, because having one char stuck at Lv. 7, another at 10, 12, etc. is just retarded.

Oh, and drawing spells in battle. It's such a bore. Lionheart actually allowed me to play without it, because it gave me spells from the beginning, including tactical stuff like Protect, which I rationed carefully.

Does Lionheart nerf all the same things as requiem of great importance? e.g STR cannot be buffed to insane degrees anymore which results in offensive magic use actually have purpose. Eden's Forbidden Medice refine ability was removed so you can't spam megaelixirs or grind permanent stat-boosters. Enemies hit hard so GF die a lot and spamming them is no longer reliable lameness. I saw you wrote Aura nerf is in there which is good.

Lastly, your list is missing Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Hardtype, also by LandonRay. Definitely has my recommendation and hugely important for replays.

Can't remember that stuff in detail, anymore. Squall's gunblade was still my primary damage dealer overall, but he was definitely a bit nerfed. Depending on the enemy, double and triple casting offensive spells was the most effective way of hurting them. Both Selfie and Quistis are massively upgraded in usefulness, although Selfie's usefulness is weighted towards the early game(perhaps a bit too much), while late game Quistis can both deal massive damage and buff/heal. My strategy was usually somewhat like:

Squall(or Zell, if Squall wasn't available) - Physical attacks, tanking
Magic user (Quistis, Selfie or Rinoa) - Offensive and cure spells
Utility character (Irvine or Zell) - buffing, resurrecting, using items, etc.

The Refine abilities were definitely balanced for gameplay reasons and Card Mod doesn't break the game automatically, you'd have to grind in certain areas for that.

I didn't forget LandonRay's Castlevania mod, I just haven't played it(I don't play that many games). I mentioned he's done a lot of things and he deserves a seal of quality.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Ah, you meant the list in the OP and not the description I made regarding FF8. Yeah, I thought about it when talking about him, but not when I made the list, because I don't normally associate JRPGs with Castlevania. I'll update the list regardless, we're very INCLOOOSIVE here.

 

[Ash]

Firstly, gimmicks are not always a bad thing. We gamers use often use the term with the connotation of "it's a feature that is shit and weak, perhaps disjointed from core gameplay when there could be something better" which is not at all the definition/s of the word, but that's OK. I often use it that way too, though not always. However even with that meaning, a gimmick can still be valuable. It can be better than no content. It's not just "rapidly pressing button", but doing so with a timing and reflex component. It is ultimately a really minor, kind of lame feature used to offset the bad choice of making animations super drawn out and unable to be shortened, but until that problem is rectified it's better than no content. Leave my awesome button alone!

As a new player, I'm autistic about missing content, but as a recurring player I often forget to do certain things. So I agree with you in principle, but nowadays I prefer to get GFs automatically.

Why is that a preference? What's the logic or thought process?

I normally stop playing before Ultimecia for some reason, I wish I had persisted with both mods.

Some reason? From Tiamat onwards (the very final three or whatever bosses at the very end of the game) Requiem gets absurd with boss battles lasting 30+ minutes long. Prior to this it's a very good mod, but it does get autistic right at the very end. No problem, game is largely complete and it was a highly cathartic, strategic, engaging experience. Time to throw in the towel. I stop here too.

The difficulty of some battles was great, but occasionally I felt there was only one possible strategy.

Again I only felt this way with a small selection late game bosses, or maybe one or two bosses here and there. This may be because I am a better gamer than you. Maybe
Embrace Requiem's majesty. It is not perfect, but probably as good as it gets for hardcore enlightened super monocle bros such as ourselves on a replay, fixes the major issues of FF8 gameplay and makes all those many, many systems and gameplay nuances come together in such a beautiful way.

Thankfully for that purpose, leveling is not such a big deal in FF8, it's just a flat increase to your stats. I'd rather forego leveling than any other thing, like refining, card mod, junctioning.

Ah, this doesn't sound as bad as I thought. Usually low level runs in these games means running away from most battles, not doing side content, minimal engagement with the RPG systems and such. If you're editing save data to achieve this...well that is still absurd, but not as bad as I thought.

 

[Latro]

I only played a bit of it but I enjoyed SMT Nocturne hard type and intend to do an anniversary playthrough with it one day

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Firstly, gimmicks are not always a bad thing. We gamers use often use the term with the connotation of "it's a feature that is shit and weak, perhaps disjointed from core gameplay when there could be something better" which is not at all the definition/s of the word, but that's OK. I often use it that way too, though not always. However even with that meaning, a gimmick can still be valuable. It can be better than no content. It's not just "rapidly pressing button", but doing so with a timing and reflex component. It is ultimately a really minor, kind of lame feature used to offset the bad choice of making animations super drawn out and unable to be shortened, but until that problem is rectified it's better than no content. Leave my awesome button alone!

I'd rather relax and watch the animations, but ok.

As a new player, I'm autistic about missing content, but as a recurring player I often forget to do certain things. So I agree with you in principle, but nowadays I prefer to get GFs automatically.

Why is that a preference? What's the logic or thought process?

I just told you, I forget about it sometimes, which means I have to replay the boss fight. And I always have Draw on at least one of my characters, even when I don't need to use it.

I normally stop playing before Ultimecia for some reason, I wish I had persisted with both mods.

Some reason? From Tiamat onwards (the very final three or whatever bosses at the very end of the game) Requiem gets absurd with boss battles lasting 30+ minutes long. Prior to this it's a very good mod, but it does get autistic right at the very end. No problem, game is largely complete and it was a highly cathartic, strategic, engaging experience. Time to throw in the towel. I stop here too.

I usually start getting very bored before Ultimecia castle, for reasons that are probably too idiosyncratic, but it's also a habit of mine to skip endings. The last time I finished the game was probably in 1999.

The difficulty of some battles was great, but occasionally I felt there was only one possible strategy.

Again I only felt this way with a small selection late game bosses, or maybe one or two bosses here and there. This may be because I am a better gamer than you. Maybe
Embrace Requiem's majesty. It is not perfect, but probably as good as it gets for hardcore enlightened super monocle bros such as ourselves on a replay, fixes the major issues of FF8 gameplay and makes all those many, many systems and gameplay nuances come together in such a beautiful way.

Great, I'm glad we're not in high school anymore. And you must've missed the part where I've praised Requiem, I just don't think it's perfect. I'm not even sure it's harder than Lionheart with No-Exp, at least for the major part of the game.

Thankfully for that purpose, leveling is not such a big deal in FF8, it's just a flat increase to your stats. I'd rather forego leveling than any other thing, like refining, card mod, junctioning.

Ah, this doesn't sound as bad as I thought. Usually low level runs in these games means running away from most battles, not doing side content, minimal engagement with the RPG systems and such. If you're editing save data to achieve this...well that is still absurd, but not as bad as I thought.

It's actually a vey simple "fix" that you do once at the beginning of the game(using an editor I found on Qhimm). I made everyone level 7(including chars you get later) and with "No-Exp" they stay that way. My "No-Exp" playthrough was only a brief test, though, which I made shortly after writing the post and I haven't played since.

 

[Arthandas]

Not having to draw GF's from bosses...what's the big deal? It encourages even using draw on bosses in the first place (typically a good idea to at least check for stock or draw-cast opportunities) as well as placing an optional (but not really, because they are that important) secondary objective to the fight to handle while also trying to survive. It also means draw (ability) is important and should be junctioned on at least one character for bosses, crowding command abilities (if you want others, sacrifice item or even magic). It's a good thing!

From the readme:
"Drawable GF can no longer be missed and will be automatically added to the player's inventory after beating the respective boss. It's still possible to draw all the GF in question though, and doing so will grant the party a certain advantage in battle, while beating the boss without drawing the GF will be rewarded with some extra items."

I tried Requiem and after wasting over 15 min scratching 10k HP SpongeBob Elvoret I concluded this mod was retarded. I played the 1.2.1 version (the last version compatible with the PSX version) which is way outdated (and later versions rebalance all enemies).

I'm yet to play Lionheart but I checked the documentation and it appears to be a much bigger mod than Requiem. It rebalances almost all aspects of the game without straight up removing shit, offers some new miniquests (and adds rewards to vanilla miniquests that had none), adds new optional boss fights (like a modified variant of X-ATM092 after revisiting the comm tower, or new stuff in the Fire Cavern after the Lunar Cry events). There are also some more in-depth changes like manual summoning of Odin, atb changes, alterning enemy formations (especially the ones with a single enemy), changed draw points etc. Seems amazing on paper, I'm definitely giving it a try sooner or later.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I tried Requiem and after wasting over 15 min scratching 10k HP SpongeBob Elvoret I concluded this mod was retarded. I played the 1.2.1 version (the last version compatible with the PSX version) which is way outdated (and later versions rebalance all enemies).

I'm yet to play Lionheart but I checked the documentation and it appears to be a much bigger mod than Requiem. It rebalances almost all aspects of the game without straight up removing shit, offers some new miniquests (and adds rewards to vanilla miniquests that had none), adds new optional boss fights (like a modified variant of X-ATM092 after revisiting the comm tower, or new stuff in the Fire Cavern after the Lunar Cry events). There are also some more in-depth changes like manual summoning of Odin, atb changes, alterning enemy formations (especially the ones with a single enemy), changed draw points etc. Seems amazing on paper, I'm definitely giving it a try sooner or later.

My experience with Requiem is with the latest PC version. I thought it was great, despite some reservations(already mentioned). Maybe the early game is too easy, but it gets really good around Disc 2 iirc. I'd definitely recommend trying Lionheart first, it feels more even and fleshed out.

 

[Ash]

Elvoret is buffed a little too much in Requiem, and I think it was nerfed in the Steam version but fuck that version when it removes card mod for 99% of the game. Most of the bossfights aren't a struggle to that degree, but I believe you do need to have established some basis (e.g a visit to the beach/training center, preferably both) before taking it on. Nonetheless it serves as a good filter. The mod is generally hard and you do ideally need to do a little grinding and party optimizing (nothing extreme, but at least a little), so if that is not for you then at least it doesn't waste your time too much as it puts one of its toughest fights early, kinda like Garula in FF5 but slightly more extreme. You already beat Ifrit - most bossfights are more like Ifrit rather than Elvoret, for reference.

It rebalances almost all aspects of the game without straight up removing shit

Very little is actually removed in Requiem (romhack version). Level up stat bonuses, which aren't very interesting in 8 and arguably better off gone for reasons I can detail if you like (removing them in a way creates MORE build freedom, believe it or not), and one GF ability that is refining all absurdly OP shit, like letting you farm megaelixirs. There's like 20 refine abilities so it's absence isn't even noticed anyway. Then there is aura which is also absurdly OP and dumb, had to go, and yet the dev had the grace to replace it with a new spell called "shield", so no sweat. It's a good mod and from all of FF8's extensive systems, this is like 1.7% of content removed. Stuff that had to be removed to make the game non-retarded. Believe me, I am not a fan of removal of content either. I loathe that most FF6 mods remove the level up stat bonuses for example, but that is mainly because that is literally the only build personalization the game really has. It's not the same in 8's case, the systems are far more complex.

I'm yet to play Lionheart but I checked the documentation and it appears to be a much bigger mod than Requiem. It rebalances almost all aspects of the game without straight up removing shit, offers some new miniquests (and adds rewards to vanilla miniquests that had none), adds new optional boss fights (like a modified variant of X-ATM092 after revisiting the comm tower, or new stuff in the Fire Cavern after the Lunar Cry events). There are also some more in-depth changes like manual summoning of Odin, atb changes, alterning enemy formations (especially the ones with a single enemy), changed draw points etc. Seems amazing on paper, I'm definitely giving it a try sooner or later.

Go ahead. It does seem pretty good, better than vanilla anyway, but requiem (non-steam version) is perfect for me outside of some very tiny, forgivable flaws like Elvoret. Once you get past elvoret the game lets up slightly, but then becomes extreme again right at the very end of the game (last three bosses or so). Very forgivable when I can just stop playing at that point and feel fulfilled. Almost everything Requiem does makes perfect sense and I can defend it with logical reasoning despite not even being the dev. I see no reason for me to switch to Lionheart.

 

[Ash]

Oh and disclaimer for anyone curious, you should not play any PS1 FF hardtype without very good knowledge of the game first. They are simply too complex (YES!) and need study, learning the secrets and nuances, before you can take on a hardtype mod without needless frustration. You don't need to be an expert, but at least learned. This can be achieved after just one playthrough but lots of internet reading in the case of some obscure aspects would be required. Or hell just jump right in and if stuck on a boss, search the internet for strategies and weaknesses if it really comes to it*. Much of a turn-based game design when actually challenging simply boils down to knowledge, good decision-making, and making effective party builds (the same thing as good decision-making but whatever).

*if you have been missing all the side content up to this point however, then RIP. Consumption of all/most side content that offers meaningful rewards is key to staying on top in Hardtypes, as it should be. You don't have to do stupid shit like skip rope in FF9 100 times, fear not. But I'd say 80% of side content is needed to stay on top of the difficulty curve. It's a good thing that (most) side content is good in these games. Some of it is the absolute devil (Chocobo breeding/racing) but I just don't do those. This bars me from one boss (Ruby) both vanilla and FF7 hardtype, no big deal. Been there done that as a kid anyway. Never again.

 

[Ash]

Gilius Thunderhead Arthandas

To me the concept of "forgetting" to draw a GF does not compute.

-Pretty much always, you should have the draw command equipped on at least one character (preferably two minimum) and at least check the magic inventory of every new enemy type you meet, not only looking for high value magic to draw (don't need to draw 100 of everything, but certain magics at least some draw-whoring is wise), and furthermore to check for magic to Draw-cast, which is essentially a free magic cast so lots of potential for extended strategy there.
-The above is multiplied considerably for bosses, which almost always have high value magic (often the first time you're seeing it, so you don't have it in your inventory already for use), and of course the all-important GFs to stock.
-Sure maybe vanilla I can somehow see "forgetting" to draw a GF, I think I may have done it is a kid in vanilla, but in requiem the above is yet more important still, the difficulty is high so you want to have as robust a set of options available to you, therefore having at least one draw equipped for draw-cast opportunities is a no-brainer to expand your moveset in any given battle.

In other words, sub-optimal play identified

To highlight what I am saying here, Cerberus boss is the first time you encounter the triple spell, you can grind the shit out of cards (I think), and maybe one hidden draw point or something somewhere, but otherwise no triples up to this point. This is generally how it goes for most magic - first seen on a boss, then becomes more common to find or refine thereafter. Triple is a very high value magic. Grabbing a few stocks is important, but not only that, draw-casting it is also super helpful to then x3 cast shell/protect/cure/reflect/esuna or whatever. Draw is absolutely a game changer for the fight. This isn't always the case, but oftentimes it is, and again, should always be on at least one character and to at least browse the enemies magic inventory. Then browse again later in the game when the level scaling kicks in and their magic inventory grows.
I only unequip draw if a boss killed me and I have already learnt they have no magic of strategic value. Then I will swap the ability for item or some other command that may be more beneficial, but it's pretty rare. Draw on at least one character is a mainstay for 99% of the game, and one of the very first thing you should do, especially in a boss battle, is take a look at what magics the enemies have.

Side note that another beautiful aspect of increasing the difficulty is that it curbs the much complained about draw-stocking (rightly so). As mentioned, the most valuable magic you can obtain in great quantities is typically first encountered on bosses. Vanilla most bosses you could sit there and draw 100 of each if you really wanted to get ahead of the (weak) difficulty curve. However in requiem bosses are hard, you can get some strategic draws in, but in most cases you have to be very selective of how much magics you wish to draw-stock from bosses. Eliminating the threat is top priority, lest you be eliminated. This is a very cool dynamic. Can't get too greedy and must identify the correct opportunities to get a draw in. Some bosses are so tough that you may have very little opportunity to stock at all, and yet you still want draw for draw-cast nonetheless.

 

[Ash]

That said, the mod takes some liberties with the script. I hadn't played the game in 20 years, so I can't really remember what things were changed exactly (there are a few jokes and easter eggs, but really out of the way, they didn't bother me). I know Ash is critical of the mod and vouches for GalenMyra's HardType instead, but so far I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two.

Oh, take my criticism with a grain of salt in regards to New Threat. It doesn't have much weight as I didn't get far. But like you said, script liberties. Immersion-breaking and lame ones. This combined with the fact that the game was unstable (crashing on PC version with 7th heaven, crucially bad thing to happen in this particular game with great distance between save points), and the fact that Hardtype is perfectly faithful while deepening the gameplay in an intelligent way, no dumb script changes, I said fuck it, amateur modders gonna mod, I will stick with hardtype. Also some of the convenience features didn't sit right by me, but I may have been overzealous there. But the fact of the matter is I didn't get far and so my perspective lacks weight.

I feel like I have clarified this before but in a different thread.

Also you say it is cool the mod lets you make Barret a tank and Tifa a mage...but the base game already did that. Sure, the stat gains let you create an OPTIMAL archetype, but then you are stuck with that too and have to commit. I like the strategy and freedom of this particular game (and 8) of adjusting my party's strengths and weaknesses to any given boss fight or location/set of random encounters. Sometimes I will make Tifa a mage, other times I will make her a fighter. Depends what the difficulty (and story - forcing character swaps in your party) demands, or simply because I don't care who gets what - I am not building a character, but a materia entity (well, not quite true, weapon types unique to a character often play a big role e.g back-row weapons. Also number and linkage of materia slots which can vary based on character. Also limit break types slightly factor). Stats are largely dictated by materia modifiers than anything else, though I pretty much always aim for 1 fighter, 1 mage, 1 hybrid/specialist, but again this often changes when a particular bossfight or location demanding adaptation comes along. Always customizing on the fly to optimize to the challenges that present themselves. Good shit that hardtype makes this all accentuated, and a very similar case in FF8 requiem. Constant customization and strategy with a meaningful degree of personalization/freedom involved too. GOOD SHIT.

This is a big reason also why good knowledge of the game is required for hardtypes - I know the enemy types, the bosses, their strengths and weakness, so I can pre-emptively strategize my builds beforehand, rather than always only being reactive after a battle. But the mod is hard and makes some AI changes here and there, or maybe I underestimate a buffed enemy/boss, so adaptation after the fact is still necessary in some cases. My knowledge isn't even that extensive though. A number of playthroughs over the years, yes, and some reading, as well as common weakness shared across reappearing enemy times across all the FF games e.g Bomb is weak to ice. I certainly don't know every enemy weakness or boss AI routine flaw however, not even close. Nor do I want to, as that would likely spoil it. Knowledge is half the battle? Eh, more like three quarters. Nah, lets stick with half.

 

[Arthandas]

To me the concept of "forgetting" to draw a GF does not compute.

I don't know why you're tagging me, I merely quoted the readme to clarify the fact Ragnarok let's you draw the GF to "grant the party a certain advantage in battle" (whatever it may be) or not draw it to "be rewarded with some extra items" (GF included). I always have Draw on me.

 

[Nutmeg]

...I've noticed some interesting looking randomizer mods such as Lunarian Shuffle and Free Enterprise. They are outside the scope of this thread, but feel free to discuss them.

I actually highly recommend these in general for people who've played the original games or enjoy roguelikes. I've played the FF4 Free Eterprise one perhaps a dozen times, and perhaps 3/4ths of a playthrough of one for FF5.

-They're highly customizable, letting you select which things are randomized, how random they are (i.e. do you want excalibur showing up in the first dungeon or not; I recommend not) and let you toggle a bunch of other features like bug fixes, removed content, and other balance or gameplay elements people have come up with over the years, including alternate victory conditions or means of recruiting characters.

-In the case of FF4 and FF5, the bosses are randomized. This means they'll have stats appropriate to their location, but the moveset appropriate to their name and appearance. This can make for some wild boss fights when you take enemies with overtuned spells and undertuned stats and give them good stats. Lots of formerly trivial fights become potentially very difficult.

-Generally speaking, these are designed to be played with random encounters disabled, and they remove the story cutscenes as well. This means you get straight up gameplay, and an entire playthrough might take somewhere in the range of 1-5 hours.

-By randomizing the locations of 'key items' (things central to the plot, such as a key to a dungeon, a vehicle, or a crystal that triggers a cutscene in a particular castle once you've had it, etc.) the game essentially becomes an open world exploration game. Rather than simply proceeding in linear fashion, you will hop from place to place, looking for good party members and equipment to become stronger, easy bosses to take out early, strong bosses to come back for later, and if you're interested in trying to win the game as fast as possible there is a ton of strategy that goes into deciding which areas to visit in which order, skipping locations, and so forth. If you're not familiar with the games, it also makes for an interesting exploration game as you won't remember which area you're supposed to take the harp to unlock a new boss fight and whatever rewards that fight might entail. Don't shuffle the key items in with regular ones; these should be shuffled amongst themselves + summon locations.

-Caveat: Not all randomizers are good. Plenty of them just lazily shuffle all enemy stats or equipment stats or locations, leading to dumb gameplay where you just go shopping for 5 minutes until you find an endgame weapon or spell for 3 gold and then steamroll the game. FF1 has a randomizer of that variety. Avoid.

On paper, especially the way you describe, randomizers completely fix almost all the issues I have with the classic JRPGs (and a few with search action games for that matter). That said, I've never actually given any a go. Any you'd recommend in particular?

 

[Ash]

The part you highlighted was in reference to Final Fantasy 5....have you actually played FF5? There is very minimal story and cutscenes, scattered here an there to provide context but they are brief and often simply tasteful slapstick goofy comic relief, the gameplay is relatively hardcore (moderate complexity, above average challenge), and the late game opens up into a relatively non-linear experience. Not hugely so but it is notable. No particular element represents any particular extreme (e.g it is not the best, hardest or most complex game ever) but everything collectively results in a very solid gameplay experience with a lot of effort behind it. Easily one of the best games of 1992 and marked step forward for JRPGs, or hell even many cRPGs should have maybe taken some notes (e.g level design, even if it isn't as impressive as Ultima Underworld, it still set a standard). I would recommend playing the game instead of a randomizer that removes 90% of the actual game lol. Not all JRPG are made the same. If you want gameplayfag ones you don't need to resort to mods right off the bat, simply ask!