Incline How to make Skyrim combat fun

[PorkyThePaladin]

Well, I give up for now. Ran into more mod issues. With Enhanced AI mod, enemies attack non-stop, and without some kind of parry stagger, it's just impossible to get your attacks in without them also hitting you, even after perfect blocking.

The only 2 mods that have parry stagger are Ultimate Combat and Wildcat as far as I know. The former has those NPC stuck issues, which I tried to resolve using FNIS, but the FNIS patch is for an older version of FNIS, and I cannot find the patch online anyway. Wildcat, on the other hand, makes a ton of other changes which I don't want and cannot be edited.

So anyway, getting bored with this endless procession of mod conflicts, outdated mods, etc. Might come back to it later, but for now, I am done. Skyrim and Bethesda's incompetence win once again. I WILL say though that while the mod setup worked, it was relatively fun, combat-wise anyway.

To put the icing on the whole effort, a little humorous story:

So while I was playing, I had to sneak into that royalists' house in White Run and steal some evidence that the Greymanes' son was still alive. I wait until 3am in the night, sneak around guard patrols, lockpick their front door, sneak past the two sleeping royalists, enter the study, and get the document. While I am crouching in the study, I hear the front door opening. I think to myself, holy shit, who the fuck is that? Inevitably, I hear approaching footsteps, and the door to the study opens, and to my horror, I see ... one of those retarded children from the city square. He sees me crouching in the study corner and goes: "Oh I didn't see that before or I would have picked it up myself" and prances out.

I follow him out of the house, thinking to myself, why is that retard kid walking around people's houses at 3am at night? Why did he not scream or raise some kind of alarm when he saw me? Why are you the two royalists still sleeping as half the town passes through their house? Ah, Bethesda...

 

[HarveyBirdman]

End of an era.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[cepheiden]

On a more serious note, here's a good system:
You can only block physical attacks with weapons, and weapons function with timed blocking (like I described in the previous page).
With shields you can block "indefinetively" - but stamina doesn't recover, or recovers at a really slow pace.
Everytime you block an attack you lose stamina. The amount lost depends on your shield/weapon weigth and the attacks Poise Damage.
If you loose all you stamina or your Poise breaks, then you are staggered.
You can't block attacks that have a bigger area than what your shield/weapon can cover (example: you can't block a bull's charge with a 2h sword, or a dragon's flame with any shield).
The advantage of shields is that they have better defenses and can protect from more threats, however weapons consume much less stamina and a sucessfull block results in a small stagger for the enemy (small enough to give you and edge at that moment, but also small enough so that a skilled combatent can protect himself from the incoming strike).

Very good.
I can't think of a single downside to that.

I follow him out of the house, thinking to myself, why is that retard kid walking around people's houses at 3am at night? Why did he not scream or raise some kind of alarm when he saw me? Why are you the two royalists still sleeping as half the town passes through their house? Ah, Bethesda...

Actually I think that is quite realistic behaviour for a retarded kid that walks around at 3 am, why would it have the common sense to call guards?
Or maybe it also sneaked in to steal stuff and if it would call the guards, then it would also get in trouble.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

On a more serious note, here's a good system:
You can only block physical attacks with weapons, and weapons function with timed blocking (like I described in the previous page).
With shields you can block "indefinetively" - but stamina doesn't recover, or recovers at a really slow pace.
Everytime you block an attack you lose stamina. The amount lost depends on your shield/weapon weigth and the attacks Poise Damage.
If you loose all you stamina or your Poise breaks, then you are staggered.
You can't block attacks that have a bigger area than what your shield/weapon can cover (example: you can't block a bull's charge with a 2h sword, or a dragon's flame with any shield).
The advantage of shields is that they have better defenses and can protect from more threats, however weapons consume much less stamina and a sucessfull block results in a small stagger for the enemy (small enough to give you and edge at that moment, but also small enough so that a skilled combatent can protect himself from the incoming strike).

Very good.
I can't think of a single downside to that.

Thanks.
I would say the biggest problem (the most tricky thing about this system) is finding a good balance between all the values here (shield/weapon defence, stamina consuption, defenders poise, poise damage, stagger time, etc...), so that the game doesn't feel broken and nonsensical which would suck the fun out of it.
The good thing is that there isn't anything inherentely wrong with the system and values are easy to fix - there will be always some guy out there that is good at math and can easily do a simple mod.

 

[gurugeorge]

Every time I fire up Skryim (now SSE) and super-mod it again, I always bump up to the same problem: the animation system. You can get the game to look pretty amazing (for its age), and if you stick to 1st person you have your classic simple Bethesda first person combat which is part clunky/part satisfying. But if you want to have something more sophisticated and fluid in 3rd person, there's something about, I don't know, the resolution of the animation that holds the game back. It's just too rough-grained to get any real feeling of responsiveness. (And after all these years they still haven't fixed that janky jerkiness when you play m/k and are in a "weapon/spell ready" position, and the slightest touch of the mouse makes the character look like it's got St. Vitus' dance.)

I haven't played Dark Souls, but with something I'm familiar with in that area, like TW3, with various mods you can get that going pretty slick, so that the animations change in a fluid way following your hair-trigger reactions. But you just can't really get that with Skyrim, at least I haven't been able to no matter what mods I try.

Also, on the character model side of things, it always makes me want to swear off 3-d games until they GET THE FUCKING SHOULDERS RIGHT. I swear to God, weird shoulder distortions (and unnatural-looking physical contortions and ragdolls generally, for that matter) are still the most uncanny valley things about videogames these days, you'd think they'd have sorted that out by now.

 

[Nikanuur]

Just two sentences of advice - 360% movement mod + CGO. Voila, almost normal ARPG combat made out of Skyrim for a change.

 

[Nikanuur]

Every time I fire up Skryim (now SSE) and super-mod it again, I always bump up to the same problem: the animation system. You can get the game to look pretty amazing (for its age), and if you stick to 1st person you have your classic simple Bethesda first person combat which is part clunky/part satisfying. But if you want to have something more sophisticated and fluid in 3rd person, there's something about, I don't know, the resolution of the animation that holds the game back. It's just too rough-grained to get any real feeling of responsiveness. (And after all these years they still haven't fixed that janky jerkiness when you play m/k and are in a "weapon/spell ready" position, and the slightest touch of the mouse makes the character look like it's got St. Vitus' dance.)

I haven't played Dark Souls, but with something I'm familiar with in that area, like TW3, with various mods you can get that going pretty slick, so that the animations change in a fluid way following your hair-trigger reactions. But you just can't really get that with Skyrim, at least I haven't been able to no matter what mods I try.

Also, on the character model side of things, it always makes me want to swear off 3-d games until they GET THE FUCKING SHOULDERS RIGHT. I swear to God, weird shoulder distortions (and unnatural-looking physical contortions and ragdolls generally, for that matter) are still the most uncanny valley things about videogames these days, you'd think they'd have sorted that out by now.

See the previous thread addition.

These mods had changed exactly what you were pointing to. All other combat mods come out with more or less the same whacky-clunky Skyrim combat feeling as the vanila. No matter if the timing block is no damage, no matter the combos, death moves, timed dodges... The above mentioned mods do the procedural leaning as well introducing the proper PC ragdoll turning when attacking sides and backward direction.

The only thing that, sadly, doesn't work this way is the blocking. I mean blocking does work, only that the PC faces forwards with the block every time. A letdown kinda, true, but still - all else works as intended. Broad swipes now hit all in 180% degree, dodges have the invincibility frames, hiting sides is properly done with PC turning as in any other ARPG, PC can switch one handed weapons to two-handed grip and much more. So in the end it comes out much closer to the proper ARPG "dance of death" instead the strange gang-bang, forward-backwards combat of vanilla Skyrim.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It would be helpful if you posted links to the mods (or at least a full mod name), and maybe a little video to show the gameplay?

 

[Nikanuur]

It would be helpful if you posted links to the mods (or at least a full mod name), and maybe a little video to show the gameplay?

Apologies, it seems the 360 movement is actually already implemented and upgraded in CGO. So no need to install it seperately. Also, I"ve forgotten to add that it has a mid-air shooting / casting and the striking with staffs. I.e. virtually everything a more proper ARPG should have. I've modded my Skyrim SE SKSE list a year agoj, so I can't really give much advice on installing, but I think the author made it all pretty explanatory.

Combat Gameplay Overhaul SE
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/33767

I include a list of mods I have installed right now. Just for the record of what can go together and very likely without any bad conflicts (6 hours of playtime).

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, that looks like a Skyrim modlist... 450+ mods, and you have more fun installing it than playing. I'll check it out later.

 

[Nikanuur]

Does anybody ko

Yeah, that looks like a Skyrim modlist... 450+ mods, and you have more fun installing it than playing. I'll check it out later.

Tbh I"ve the classic modding syndrom a time to time. Modding for a week, trying everything out, and it makes me so exhausted I loose interest in the game itself :D

 

[Abhay]

I've tried playing with this mod and it doesn't help to keep myself interested into the game. Skyrim still feels like a dull experience no matter the 1000s of mods you install.

This games biggest weakness is the open world itself, incl shit story. Can any mod entirely change the base game to something completely different in theme and storytelling?

I'd rather switch to other better RPGs.

 

[dacencora]

I've tried playing with this mod and it doesn't help to keep myself interested into the game. Skyrim still feels like a dull experience no matter the 1000s of mods you install.

This games biggest weakness is the open world itself, incl shit story. Can any mod entirely change the base game to something completely different in theme and storytelling?

I'd rather switch to other better RPGs.

Enderal. It’s a total conversion. Not sure what it does to the gameplay, but it changes the whole map/story to something entirely different.

 

[Darkforge]

Tried, hit the mod limit before it was fun.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

https://www.wabbajack.org/#/

Quite a few interesting modlists that drastically change the nature of the game. However, at the end of the day you are still basically playing the same underlying content.

There's one that changes the combat to be like Sekiro, where you can parry to stagger enemies and then one-shot them. It also does, errmm, other things when you get hit. *cough* *cough*

It doesn't really work that well but it does make combat encounters more interesting than the usual ice-skating slugfest.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Why does that site have that one soyjak as its logo?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, this was an experiment for me, just to see if I could mod Skyrim combat into something playable. I can't stand vanilla melee combat.

But ultimately there is no way to mod Skyrim into fun, because pretty much everything needs to be modded out: combat, writing, quest design, world design, graphics/animations, character development, etc.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

What kind of pathetic piece of shit do you have to be to go into a "How to make skyrim combat better" thread and keep going on about other games and other combat systems? And just keep coming back and spamming the place with faggotry? Oh wow, you, an RPG codex user, feel that skyrim was shit? How fucking original, much incline.

This is also something I've had some interest in, and I have also not really come up with anything that does the job. I'm not looking for it to be a different game (I'd play said different game in that case) but stuff like timed blocks and the various fixes to make it work seem like it does make the combat a lot more satisfying.

The magic, I think, is a lost cause. Oblivion was the only TES game with decent magic, in my opinion, because you had to equip each spell as a weapon in all the other TES games.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I've always thought Skyrim does progression well, which isn't something you see a lot of people talk about here in the usual combat v. story arguments. The feeling of going from weak to badass as you accumulate skills, items, and powers in Skyrim is p. great, the main problem is you eclipse the challenge curve and get bored. The combat is mainly a feedback system for power accrual.

 

[Butter]

I've always thought Skyrim does progression well, which isn't something you see a lot of people talk about here in the usual combat v. story arguments. The feeling of going from weak to badass as you accumulate skills, items, and powers in Skyrim is p. great, the main problem is you eclipse the challenge curve and get bored. The combat is mainly a feedback system for power accrual.

What progression is there in Skyrim? It's entirely about numbers going up. You level up enough to craft the next tier of weapons, which do slightly more damage than the previous tier, and you take the perk that increases the weapon damage by 20%, and you continue to whack people over the head repeatedly. Morrowind was the last TES game in which the nature of combat actually changed over time.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I've always thought Skyrim does progression well, which isn't something you see a lot of people talk about here in the usual combat v. story arguments. The feeling of going from weak to badass as you accumulate skills, items, and powers in Skyrim is p. great, the main problem is you eclipse the challenge curve and get bored. The combat is mainly a feedback system for power accrual.

What progression is there in Skyrim? It's entirely about numbers going up. You level up enough to craft the next tier of weapons, which do slightly more damage than the previous tier, and you take the perk that increases the weapon damage by 20%, and you continue to whack people over the head repeatedly. Morrowind was the last TES game in which the nature of combat actually changed over time.

Yeah, that stuff you just listed? That's progression.

Also, lol at morrowind's dynamic combat. Your nostalgia goggles have blinded you.

 

[Butter]

I've always thought Skyrim does progression well, which isn't something you see a lot of people talk about here in the usual combat v. story arguments. The feeling of going from weak to badass as you accumulate skills, items, and powers in Skyrim is p. great, the main problem is you eclipse the challenge curve and get bored. The combat is mainly a feedback system for power accrual.

What progression is there in Skyrim? It's entirely about numbers going up. You level up enough to craft the next tier of weapons, which do slightly more damage than the previous tier, and you take the perk that increases the weapon damage by 20%, and you continue to whack people over the head repeatedly. Morrowind was the last TES game in which the nature of combat actually changed over time.

Yeah, that stuff you just listed? That's progression.

Also, lol at morrowind's dynamic combat. Your nostalgia goggles have blinded you.

Progression is doing the same thing for 50 hours. Good one.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I've always thought Skyrim does progression well, which isn't something you see a lot of people talk about here in the usual combat v. story arguments. The feeling of going from weak to badass as you accumulate skills, items, and powers in Skyrim is p. great, the main problem is you eclipse the challenge curve and get bored. The combat is mainly a feedback system for power accrual.

What progression is there in Skyrim? It's entirely about numbers going up. You level up enough to craft the next tier of weapons, which do slightly more damage than the previous tier, and you take the perk that increases the weapon damage by 20%, and you continue to whack people over the head repeatedly. Morrowind was the last TES game in which the nature of combat actually changed over time.

Yeah, that stuff you just listed? That's progression.

Also, lol at morrowind's dynamic combat. Your nostalgia goggles have blinded you.

Progression is doing the same thing for 50 hours. Good one.

50 years ago, video games were things where people push buttons on a controller or keyboard to make a game on a video screen do what they want.

In current year, video games are things where people push buttons on a controller or keyboard to make a game on a video screen do what they want. But now the numbers are bigger.

So, by your standard, no progress has happened in the last 50 years in video games. Or computers, for that matter, since all that happened is numbers went up.

This is someone who lost the argument before he begun because he doesn't have a working brain. Sad. Many such cases.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Also, lol at morrowind's dynamic combat. Your nostalgia goggles have blinded you.

How many people on the Codex have nostalgia for Morrowind of all games?