How feasible would it be to resurrect Ultima and Wizardry as modern franchises?

[Louis_Cypher]

Ultima and Wizadry invented the computer RPG in 1979 and 1981 if you count Akalabeth. They had 9 and 8 entries respectively (the latest being Ultima IX in 1999 and Wizardry 8 in 2001). That is quite a lot of numerals, even though half of them were developed a year apart in the 80s.

In Japan, Dragon Quest (11 main entries, latest: Dragon Quest XI in 2017) and Final Fantasy (15 main entries, lastest: Final Fantasy XV in 2016) have been running since 1986 and 1987 respectively, the oldest series, giving them an air of prestigious lineage. People go mad for a new release, it's a gaming institution. (I know Wizardry games get released in Japan, but's lets ignore Japanese spin-offs for now).

This got me thinking, is there some way that Ultima and Wizardry, the original two western RPGs, could be resurrected to take advantage of their prestigious amount of numbers? Ultima X, Ultima XI, Ultima XII? Wizardry 9, Wizardry 10, Wizadry 11? Big releases, full of gaming press hype? Could people ever come to see a new release as a big damn historical gaming moment type thing? We just got Baldur's Gate III announced after all. How would one go about doing it? Remaster old games in new engines first for re-release?

Could a modern company acquire the licences and do it? Could they be Kickstarted as an indie? Could the Codex all pool their pocket money and buy the franchises, then develop them forming RPGCodex Interactive Entertainment?

Who are you? What do you want? Who do you serve, and who do you trust?

 

[Agame]

No.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

No.

Because we don't trust anyone to do it right?

But aren't we just gonna pedestal the franchises until they are forgotten?

 

[Farewell young Prince into the night]

I'll give Beamdog a call.

 

[Agame]

I'll give Beamdog a call.

Yes thats exactly what I mean.

 

[Wunderbar]

Ultima can be resurrected by Piranha Bytes.

 

[Machocruz]

As big releases with a lot of hype, I doubt it. The video game audience as increased massively since those series were at their peak. I assume the Wizardry and Ultima audience haven't grown in proportion, and they weren't huge numbers to begin with. BG2 was bigger, right?

 

[Agame]

No.

Because we don't trust anyone to do it right?

But aren't we just gonna pedestal the franchises until they are forgotten?

That would be my fear, the best we would get is a mediocre game like M&M 10 that tries to lean into the old sensibilities while trying to appeal to modern audience. At worst we get a Fallout 3 that burns the entire IP to the ground and makes my stomach churn whenever I see the word Fallout.

The true future for old school classics is Indie companies making their own IPs, while influenced by the classics, eg. Underrail. This way they do not carry the baggage and expectations of the old games and can explore and iterate on the designs. And not being a large company they do not have to bow to pop-a-mole, 'current year' agenda BS, etc. etc.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

What's the point? Brands and names don't mean shit. Besides, I doubt there are too many people who will give them justice.

It would be much wiser to do it on your own terms, make successors under a different name and avoid betting too much money on that.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Just to clarify, I mean a continuation, rather than a remaster of the old ones.

Although I think remasters/remakes can serve to introduce new audiences to older games if there are still new entries coming out to drum up interest in the history, and are not always just a cash grab. The young-lings are not all comfortable with buying a DOSbox game off GoG, but might be okay playing a cheap tile-for-tile remake of something like Wizardry using a modern engine, but replicating everything inch for inch, or something. I really wish EA didn't have the Star Wars licence, or we might have a remake of Dark Forces in a modern engine by now.

Ultima X, release date 2024, etc.

Wizardry 9, release date 2023, etc.

As big releases with a lot of hype, I doubt it. The video game audience as increased massively since those series were at their peak. I assume the Wizardry and Ultima audience haven't grown in proportion, and they weren't huge numbers to begin with. BG2 was bigger, right?

I agree, although I think you can manufacture suprising degrees of artificial interest just by claiming you are the prodigal messiah of gaming returning, as nobody knows better, they just read some editorial on how important Ultima was to gaming, etc. Maybe the dark forces of media can be made to serve the light, as long as one does not stare into the abyss too deeply.

That would be my fear, the best we would get is a mediocre game like M&M 10 that tries to lean into the old sensibilities while trying to appeal to modern audience. At worst we get a Fallout 3 that burns the entire IP to the ground and makes my stomach churn whenever I see the word Fallout.

The true future for old school classics is Indie companies making their own IPs, while influenced by the classics, eg. Underrail. This way they do not carry the baggage and expectations of the old games and can explore and iterate on the designs. And not being a large company they do not have to bow to pop-a-mole, 'current year' agenda BS, etc. etc.

It would have to be a new company I think, maybe a developer than had a deliberate mandate to continue where Origin and Sir-Tech left off and evolve the ideas.

This might be fabuolously optimistic, but I guess there have been other cases where a small dev or independent did something similar, although as you say, less successfully so far.

 

[moraes]

Yes.

ULTIMA: Britannia - You and 3 other friends step in the shoes of The Avatars in this open-world multiplayer game with survival elements. Build, fight monsters and each other. Conduct diplomacy or total war against Lord British and become the ultimate Avatar of virtue!

Wizardry: Gaiden: XZ-Zero: Sekai - Welcome to the World of Werdna! You have been teleported from your half-bedroom apartment in Tokyo to this strange land of heroes and monsters! Explore and make it yours! Fight more than 150 monsters from the classic series, re-imagined for modern audiences! Meet (and romance) a diverse cast of characters: from the tsundere valkyrie Katrissa, to the totally legal 350 year old witch with prepubescent body features, Pecorinna! Ascend to the Throne of Werdna and choose whether to remain in this strange world or go back home to your absurd existence!

 

[Lady_Error]

The Wizardry IP is owned by a Japanese company since forever and they have been releasing JRPG's like Wizardry Empire (which I don't like, but whatever). Though they probably do not have the rights to do a Wizardry 9. And considerung the legal swamp between Sir-Tech and Greenberg, I doubt that anyone has a clear idea on who owns all the rights to do a sequel.

I even tried contacting D.W.Bradley when the Kickstarter craze was on - thinking that he could capitalize on that to create another game. But sadly, Dungeon Lords shows that he likely lost his mind a long time ago...

 

[AArmanFV]

This got me thinking, is there some way that Ultima and Wizardry, the original two western RPGs, could be resurrected to take advantage of their prestigious amount of numbers? Ultima X, Ultima XI, Ultima XII? Wizardry 9, Wizardry 10, Wizadry 11? Big releases, full of gaming press hype? Could people ever come to see a new release as a big damn historical gaming moment type thing? We just got Baldur's Gate III announced after all. How would one go about doing it? Remaster old games in new engines first for re-release?

I don't think so, unless a big ass publisher put a lot of money for marketing purposes, like "this is Ultima and this is how great it was" with all those crappy gaming sites making articles and articles about what the fuck are those games and their noble lineage, so the millenials get the idea and then build a lot of hype. And all of that is too much work and money when you already have a lot of better known IPs.

Could a modern company acquire the licences and do it?

Wizardry's IP is now property of some Japanese developer. Ultima is from EA I think, so it'll be there forever (and they can't use the "Lord British" name if they remake the games because Richard Garriot have the rights of his alter ego ).

Now, Ultima is dead for good and ended the "Avatar story" in IX, any atempt to revive it at this point will be just an excuse to profit with nostalgia (personal opinion). I think Wizardry had the potential to be an endless franchise, if only the neanderthal end up with the license...

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Well, say we did have the resources to buy out Ultima from whoever has it, how would you go about making Ultima 10?

A lower-budget pixel art indie, in the style of Ultima IV, but with more detail or something?

Or a big budget attempt to evolve on from Ultima IX and create something realistic?

I'm kinda a believer that some of RPG gaming's abandoned design choices from days past were not bad, and could find a willing audience again. Look how, under the right circumstances, the public received the old school features of Demon Souls like a novelty. Or the survival stuff in modern games, which is not too dissimilar from having to buy food in older RPGs.

 

[StrongBelwas]

For the love of God don't tempt EA

 

[Butter]

Casuals get hyped for new Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy entries because those are casual series. If Wizardry 9 were announced tomorrow, the mainstream wouldn't care. You'd have to make it look like something from Bioware's ass before it got any attention, and then it wouldn't be worth playing.

 

[Mud']

Because we don't trust anyone to do it right?

But aren't we just gonna pedestal the franchises until they are forgotten?

I prefer to have a franchise be forgotten than having another Shroud of the Avatar tier game, because if we cant trust the OG dev behind the Ultima games, why would anyone else be able to make another Ultima?

To be honest, the only studio that could make a Ultima game is Larian, not in the writing department, but in the world if they a day-night cycle and working schedules.

Casuals get hyped for new Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy entries because those are casual series. If Wizardry 9 were announced tomorrow, the mainstream wouldn't care. You'd have to make it look like something from Bioware's ass before it got any attention, and then it wouldn't be worth playing.

I am guessing this happen to Baldur's Gate 3 because in a lot of forums or comments i saw something like "Man Larian is making a new game! I also read that BG is like the best RPG ever, cant wait for it after D:OS2!" even if they never played BG1 or 2.

For the love of God don't tempt EA

I doubt that after Lords of Ultima, EA even remembers that they have the Ultima IP.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

As others have said, Wizardry already has sequels, and nobody gives a toss.
But making a new Ultima is kind of like making a sequel to Wizard of Oz today. (more like Gold Diggers, but people know Wizard of Oz now) Sure someone can do that, but the deck is stacked against you because so many things went right for the first one. If you make a new one, well, the world has moved on. You've got the obvious bit, the underlying systems that were complex even back in the day. Well, those are still going to be complex, with the added bonus that you have to make them work in 3D. High-quality 3D, too. Then you've got the morality, nobody wants a video game about morality. Yeah, sure, journalists praised Spec Ops: The Line for its story, but that's journalists, it didn't sell well. Plus, work is bad isn't a hard sell among that crowd. Its basically Apocalypse Now for video games, except less interesting. Actually having to work at morality? The average player just wants to kill stuff and a journalist just wants to sound smart. You've got one hell of an uphill battle there. If such a thing happens, people will probably hate it at launch, and have mixed feelings afterward.
That said, I'm surprised Bioware never tried to get their hands on Ultima. I guess either everyone there when they got bought either never heard of it, or didn't want to risk such blasphemy.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm glad the series died rather than continue to live on in some frankenzombie form like Final Fantasy.

 

[Desiderius]

Very.

All y'all are sad, shriveled up pussies.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Very.

All y'all are sad, shriveled up pussies.

What's the point of resurrecting a series instead of making a new one other than for nostalgia scamming purposes?

 

[Desiderius]

As big releases with a lot of hype, I doubt it. The video game audience as increased massively since those series were at their peak. I assume the Wizardry and Ultima audience haven't grown in proportion, and they weren't huge numbers to begin with. BG2 was bigger, right?

Yes, but we have wallets 1,000 times bigger.

People like quality games, and there aren't enough of those anyway. Easier to update the wheel than to reinvent it from scratch. Plus we have kids who want to play.

 

[Desiderius]

Very.

All y'all are sad, shriveled up pussies.

What's the point of resurrecting a series instead of making a new one other than for nostalgia scamming purposes?

Who says they're dead?

Some people like to make new stuff, some like to mine a rich vein. Takes all kinds.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar is the resurrected Wizardry in all but name.

 

[Agame]

Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar is the resurrected Wizardry in all but name.

Which reminds me, all these fucking buttons everywhere and there is no Cleve emoji!? Get your shit together Codex.