Guild Wars 1

[Black]

Still alive and kickin'!

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Game_updates/20240215

Yeah, that's pretty good but what about https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Game_updates/20240212

 

[what am i doing]

Still alive and kickin'!

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Game_updates/20240215

That's a really pleasant surprise; I hate the entire EotN soundtrack (no idea how Jeremy Soule did such a terrible job considering how good all his other work is - I suspect nuAnet was very particular about how they wanted it to sound) and having it as the login music for so many years was somewhat annoying. I never thought they'd change it, and now - since it seems to play them in order - I'll never have to hear that shitty EotN motif when I'm hopping into the character select screen for a moment.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I guess tastes differ, I found it very good iirc. Haven't listened to it in 16 years though, I think, so it may be that my recollection fails me.

 

[Axioms]

Man I wish I still played MMOs, cause GW1 is a top3 of all time game. The skill/class system is awesome, custom parties are awesome, the Necromancer is awesome.

 

[Lacrymas]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

 

[Cyberarmy]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

Tainted Grail: Conquest has good summoner classes even as a card game.

 

[gabel]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

I remember how great it was before they introduced the minion limit (10?).
It's still great, but it was beyond awesome before.

 

[Lacrymas]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

I remember how great it was before they introduced the minion limit (10?).
It's still great, but it was beyond awesome before.

Was there ever a time where you could control unlimited amounts of minions? Death Magic's whole shtick is that it increases the amount of minions you can have (the cap is 12).

 

[rubinstein]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

I remember how great it was before they introduced the minion limit (10?).
It's still great, but it was beyond awesome before.

Was there ever a time where you could control unlimited amounts of minions? Death Magic's whole shtick is that it increases the amount of minions you can have (the cap is 12).

"As of the 04/26/2006 update, your maximum number of controlled minions is limited by your rank in Death Magic. You start with two, and for every two ranks, you can command an additional one. Additional minions summoned beyond this limit cause your minion with the fewest hitpoints remaining to die. The game does not distinguish between minion type when determining how many you can control (except for the animated Flesh Golem)."

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Diablo II did summoning better imo. Low/no maintenance, quicker, more gory and satisfying corpse exploits. In GW, I'd much rather do curses or spam wells of power all over the place with blood magic and outsource summoning to the npcs. It's less busywork.

 

[Lacrymas]

Diablo II did summoning better imo. Low/no maintenance, quicker, more gory and satisfying corpse exploits. In GW, I'd much rather do curses or spam wells of power all over the place with blood magic and outsource summoning to the npcs. It's less busywork.

But playing a summoner in D2 was extremely dull, like it is in basically all hack and slashers, unlike in GW1.

 

[Caim]

I initially dropped Guild Wars 2 when I realized that necromancers can no longer summon an entire horde of the same basic undead and only get to summon a menagerie of different undead.

 

[Average Manatee]

GW1's necro has the only satisfying minion-based build in video gaming as a whole. The idea to have the minions constantly decompose is genius.

I remember how great it was before they introduced the minion limit (10?).
It's still great, but it was beyond awesome before.

It was still fairly limited since there was no way to heal them other than heal area at the time iirc. Past a point the minions just wouldn't group up under your aoe. You could get more at once through bone minions ( summon 2 at a time) though.

 

[Axioms]

Guild Wars 1 Necromancer was indeed a top 3 Summoner Necromancer of all time. You had tons of summon options, tons of healing options, tons of buff options. Of course you often would need to farm Elite Skills to be the best you could be.

Everything about GW2 was worse actually. Not just Necro gameplay. GW2 is a dogshit trash dumpster fire game.

I had a period where I was on an IRL quest to find the best summoner gameplay in an arpg or mmo, or even some other kind of game. GW1, Grim Dawn(especially with mods), and I forget what some of the others were. Sadly even for GD or D2 the minion gameplay was mostly about minmaxing your number of minions and the active management was pretty dull.

I'd *love* a game where you had active DoT skills and debuffs that combo'd with your the stuff your minions did to inflict status effects and more DoTs.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

But playing a summoner in D2 was extremely dull, like it is in basically all hack and slashers, unlike in GW1.

Perhaps, but it's more powerful and the minion AI is better. If I'm doing summons on a Necro in any game, chances are I'm wanting to play a class that can be played mostly on auto-pilot so I don't mind the simplicity. The added steps of applying death nova and putrid bile are the only place I see added complexity in GW1 that isn't just more tedium. Some of the features would be less bothersome in isolation, but altogether disrupt the flow of gameplay.

I could tolerate the minion decay rate over time if they'd eventually just stay as weaker skeletons, but in GW the decay gets more and more rapid to the point where die off is inevitable and healing unrealistic, forcing you to resummon. Feels weaker than D2 for that reason alone, as if my character's a novice rather than a master. I also don't like how the minions deploy themselves always standing behind the summoner, as opposed to D2 where they have small radius to wander around in, making them much more proactive in drawing aggro. True, you may not want to draw aggro when running through certain areas, but overall, I'd say that if you truly cared about avoiding aggro in GW you wouldn't be playing a summoner to begin with. I consider it much more important that the minions act as a meat shield for the enemy AI to blow their best AOE spells on during the first engage, but that's essentially impossible in GW as there is no way to direct the minions forward without first drawing the aggro yourself (or using a bow to pull, yuck). Honestly, it would have been much improved if there was just a separate flag button for minions, but the behavior for minion roaming already exists in game on minipets. All it needed was for the roaming loop to be sped up and applied to minions. Lastly, the time it takes to exploit corpses ensures that every Necro needs to pay the Paragon tax just so they can keep up with the rest of the party. Minions inevitably are the last to enter the fray without it and often inadvertently trip aggro from behind.

 

[Average Manatee]

Degen is capped at -10 (20 DPS), so with 20 Death Magic you only need to use BotM roughly once every 7 seconds (140 healing). This also involves using Aura of the Lich which solves the problem of taking too much time to raise corpses (though if you spam BotM you really don't need to, I commonly run 2 MMs at a time and they just maintain the minions forever).

There's plenty of skills for you (EBSoH, Pain Inverter) and others (MoP, Barbs) to use that synergize extremely well with minions. And you can turn around to get the minions to be "in front" (closest to the enemy).

You are correct on the "paragon tax", but my MM heroes are /P so that isn't an issue with party management

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Degen is capped at -10 (20 DPS), so with 20 Death Magic you only need to use BotM roughly once every 7 seconds (140 healing).

At that point I might as well just play a spammer rit. No corpse req, fewer clicks to drag them around with summon spirits rather than maintaining masochism and botm. Better left for the party AI to fuss with.

And you can turn around to get the minions to be "in front" (closest to the enemy).

This is not a serious solution because you'll still be the one tripping aggro and potentially getting nuked, unless you're flagging heroes. Either way it falls into the category of cumbersome gameplay that I'd rather not bother with.

 

[Black]

Game's on heavy discount now- https://store.guildwars.com/en-gb
Now's your chance to play one of the very few actual 10/10 games for nothing.

 

[gabel]

I would, but I've sunk thousands of hours into it almost two decades ago, and unfortunately you can't turn back time.

 

[Spike]

Game's on heavy discount now- https://store.guildwars.com/en-gb
Now's your chance to play one of the very few actual 10/10 games for nothing.

So let me get this straight...The sale on the website is cheaper and has more content than the Steam one? Steam one is $7.49 and seems to be missing Eye of the North. Can anyone confirm if the GuildWars website just gives you a steam key or whatever?

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Can anyone confirm if the GuildWars website just gives you a steam key or whatever?

No, it isn't a Steam key. You DL the client from the official website then put the keys in, and yes the official store is the way to go if it's also on sale there.

 

[Spike]

Can anyone confirm if the GuildWars website just gives you a steam key or whatever?

No, it isn't a Steam key. You DL the client from the official website then put the keys in, and yes the official store is the way to go if it's also on sale there.

Interesting. I see. It is only 4 niggabytes so that's nice. Thanks.

EDIT: The frickin page won't load. Let me give you money, you retards.
EDIT 2: It's only like 2 bucks extra if I get everything on Steam. For the convenience? Erm, yes please. Besides, the purchase page won't load so Steam it is.

 

[Black]

The fucking site works again, it's better to buy there than on steam imo.

 

[what am i doing]

Diablo II did summoning better imo. Low/no maintenance, quicker, more gory and satisfying corpse exploits. In GW, I'd much rather do curses or spam wells of power all over the place with blood magic and outsource summoning to the npcs. It's less busywork.

But playing a summoner in D2 was extremely dull, like it is in basically all hack and slashers, unlike in GW1.

Other way around, in my opinion. I found skeleton necromancer in Diablo 2 a lot more fun than GW MM builds. Especially because of the whole "minions decompose over time" shit which is just balance by tedium. In both cases you're mostly just watching your minions engage in combat while you fire off one or two combat skills periodically, but in GW you also have the whole problem that you have to either keep casting Blood of the Master all the time, or enter combat with most/all of your minions dead and you have to wait until the enemy is already dying to get more of them. I like spirit builds a lot better in that regard because you can get your spirits up at the start of combat.

 

[frajaq]

I cant even access the Guild Wars 1 Steam page from my country lol, a shame