Vapourware Greed Monger Insider Thread (drama inside)

[GM_JamesPro]

Ok so I'm James Proctor... The Person accused of being a Fag and scam artist in this thread. I am going to be brief and to the point and then I'm gone. I'm not going to argue with you guys or anything. I have to much work to do. I'd rather let the game speak for it's self as we roll out our releases.

First of all Yes we made mistakes... Yes we are way over due on getting GM released. YES our KickStarter backers have every right to be concerned and upset and voice their concerns. We listen, we take note, and we work to improve things. However at what point does voicing the concerns get to the point that it's just immature bashing... AND what does it matter to people like the OP who has nothing invested in GM. What is it that they have against us that they start throwing around accusations based on false accusations that others have started?

The Original Accusations posted here... That GM was a scam because we used Unity3D and Store bought Assets from Unity's Asset Store, So taking that further I guess ANY Game built with Unity3D (Just a Game Engine like the Unreal Engine or any other Commercial Game Engine) is nothing more then a Scam until the Game Releases... I guess SoTA, a Game built by Lord British himself, is nothing but a Scam... I've seen a bunch of assets we bought being used in SoTA AND it also uses the Unity3D Game Engine. I guess it doesn't matter how much custom coding you do for the game JUST the fact that it's built with a Specific Game Engine makes it a Scam. I guess it doesn't matter how much world building, or how many completely custom 3d Models, Or how many custom textures you create, I guess none of that matters. Just the fact that we used a $1,000+ Commercial Game Engine instead of building our own Game Engine makes us a Scam.

As for my Past, Yes I have a past with Game Development. I learned how to Program using C#, C++, Java, Python, and a bunch of Web Based Languages... I did ALL of this so that I could Develop fun games that I could play with thousands of others. I have Projects I started and Scrapped as I learned... I have Entire Game Engines I custom Coded... I have Frameworks that I custom coded. Most of my Actual Games failed as a result of not having the money to develop them further... Not having money to hire 3D Modelers to create assets, Not having the money to rent Servers, not having the money needed for anything that would have taking the games to the next level. None of that makes me a Scam Artist. It's been reported that I have been scamming people since at least 2008. How is it a scam if I haven't taking any money or anything else from people? You can say what you want about GM... If you want to believe that GM is a Scam fine go ahead. However saying that I was scamming people Before GM is a total and complete Lie based on baseless claims.

As for the other claims made in this very thread about my sexuality... I'm a Video Game Developer/Designer... NOT a Porn Star. My Sexuality and Sexual Preference has completely nothing to do with anything being talked about. Also what I post on my personal Youtube account is my Business has nothing to do with GM or My work with GM... If I want to post my political Views or Let's plays on my personal youtube page then you better believe I will. If you have a problem with that then tough.

Now I am going to get back to work and let the game speak for it's self. I really hope you guys have a great day and thankyou for your feedback. Even the nastiest, cruelest, most insensitive feedback can still help us out... Even if for nothing more then a good laugh.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Jarakka]

I am going to be brief and to the point and then I'm gone. I'm not going to argue with you guys or anything. I have to much work to do. I'd rather let the game speak for it's self as we roll out our releases.

*Wall of text*

Yeap.

 

[Night Goat]

When Someone capitalizes Words at Random, it makes him Look like a Crazy person.

 

[Angthoron]

Welp, that was among the more polite Codex-bashed devs/modders on my memory.

An interesting post, to be sure. James, in case you're going to look at the thread again, I have some questions: why MMO? On the level that you've approached it, it's bound to be one of the more difficult/ambitious things to do. Hell, there's smaller MMO projects that use sprites and Java or similar. Unity 3D was a terrible engine at the time you'd have started the development, sure, it had a nice library but even now the engine is known for being, um, special. So why go that way? Why not go for an easier debut, get some experience and connections, and then go for something as ambitious as your intent?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Normally don't have much interest in the MMO subforum but this was... fun

Not every day you get people claiming to be devs and coming up with gems like :"I'm a Video Game Developer/Designer... NOT a Porn Star".

Would read again

 

[Norfleet]

Wait, there's allegedly a game? What's it supposed to be about? I've never heard of this. Do I want anything to do with this? It's using Unity? I've decided I like Unity games.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Welp, that was among the more polite Codex-bashed devs/modders on my memory.

An interesting post, to be sure. James, in case you're going to look at the thread again, I have some questions: why MMO? On the level that you've approached it, it's bound to be one of the more difficult/ambitious things to do. Hell, there's smaller MMO projects that use sprites and Java or similar. Unity 3D was a terrible engine at the time you'd have started the development, sure, it had a nice library but even now the engine is known for being, um, special. So why go that way? Why not go for an easier debut, get some experience and connections, and then go for something as ambitious as your intent?

I am still reading this... Before I say anything else I just want to say that I would be more then willing to stick around and answer whatever honest Questions this community might have about GM. However if it turns back into just baseless bashing of me personally I'll take the cue and leave. One of the reasons I got into Game Development was because I loved the online interaction with the community.

As for why Unity basically Jason had decided to use Unity before I even joined the team. However Unity also allows us to reach the different platforms from Mac to Linux to PC to even Web and Facebook. We would even have the option of getting on Mobiles and Consoles should we decide in the future to go that route. Unity3D is a very versatile Game Engine capable of doing lot's of different types of Games. It currently lacks much support of large open world games though so I've had to code a custom solution for asset streaming and paging of the terrain. So far it's working flawlessly though it's not completely integrated with our Networking.

As for why an MMO and not some other type of game, MMOs have always been my passion. They are why I started learning to code in the first place. I don't have much interest in single player games. Every once in a while though I'll get an idea and I'll go with it for a day or 2 in order to take a break from MMOs. Back in 2011 I took a couple days and ran with a Space Invaders style concept I came up with. I had complete levels, Different numbers of Waves each level, a complete scoring system, Ship Upgrades, ect. It was all using Programmer art though so it wasn't very pretty but all I cared about was the Programming behind it. -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ali4KitvN3g

 

[Angthoron]

I am still reading this... Before I say anything else I just want to say that I would be more then willing to stick around and answer whatever honest Questions this community might have about GM. However if it turns back into just baseless bashing of me personally I'll take the cue and leave. One of the reasons I got into Game Development was because I loved the online interaction with the community.

Well, just as a disclaimer, this is one of those communities that aren't heavily moderated (as you probably already noticed), so there might be an occasional rock flying. However, since you didn't come in frothing at the mouth and calling everyone a dipshit, I think that the likelihood of that isn't terribly high. Still, can happen, it's just the way this place is.

As for why Unity basically Jason had decided to use Unity before I even joined the team. However Unity also allows us to reach the different platforms from Mac to Linux to PC to even Web and Facebook. We would even have the option of getting on Mobiles and Consoles should we decide in the future to go that route. Unity3D is a very versatile Game Engine capable of doing lot's of different types of Games. It currently lacks much support of large open world games though so I've had to code a custom solution for asset streaming and paging of the terrain. So far it's working flawlessly though it's not completely integrated with our Networking.

Ah, makes sense then. I think Unity 4 and 5 are fairly decent, but whatever early version you had to work with might've been one of the things to cause delays. Then again, from what I've seen performance etc-wise, I might just be prejudiced against Unity. If you had to pick an engine for your MMO yourself, what would you go for?

As for why an MMO and not some other type of game, MMOs have always been my passion. They are why I started learning to code in the first place. I don't have much interest in single player games. Every once in a while though I'll get an idea and I'll go with it for a day or 2 in order to take a break from MMOs. Back in 2011 I took a couple days and ran with a Space Invaders style concept I came up with. I had complete levels, Different numbers of Waves each level, a complete scoring system, Ship Upgrades, ect. It was all using Programmer art though so it wasn't very pretty but all I cared about was the Programming behind it. -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ali4KitvN3g

How about the current fad, multiplayer survival semi-persistent worlds? There's a ton of them now, after Minecraft and DayZ, is that something that interests you, or it has to be seriously massive type of MOGs?

 

[GM_JamesPro]

lol Yeah the second I saw the old name of this thread in my GMail account (I have all new Google Search Results for GM emailed to me which is how I'm able to find out when people are talking about GM) I figured this forum wasn't highly moderated.

All of our KS Videos were created using Unity 3. Shortly after our KS Campaign ended we licensed Unity 4 which is what we are still using. We have plans to upgrade to Unity 5 just as soon as possible but we are still waiting on some of the Unity Plugins that we have licensed to be upgraded to Unity 5 before we make the switch. Mainly our Avatar System needs to be upgraded. I expect to make the upgrade with in the next month if all goes well. I'm personally really excited about the SpeedTree integration in Unity5 and all of the graphical Enhancements and optimizations that have been done.

I've thought about smaller Survival Games... My MMO Framework would be perfect for those types of Games. Using my UniStream Plugin and Custom Python Scripting Engine Server admins would be able to be as creative as they wanted including going as far as to Create their own whole worlds. I actually started a Prototype using my Framework and made a couple releases though the Lobby Server is now offline.
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/community-lobby-based-online-survival-game.275765/

You can also see more info on UniStream here:
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/asset-store-asset-streaming-plugin.247647/

And more info on my MMO Framework which some incorrectly said was an actual Game when it's just a Framework that is still being developed:
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/universe-mmo-framework.252374/

And a tutorial I had started recording for Unity but stopped because of some Major changes I had made to UniVerse and I haven't gotten around to starting the tutorials again:
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/un...tion-of-a-zone-based-mmo-architecture.278453/

EDIT: As for if I had to pick an engine my self it would depend on a number of factors: How much time we had for Development, How big our team was, what platforms we needed to support, How much money we had for development, ect. If time wasn't an issue my very first choice would be Custom build an Engine. A Custom built Engine can be designed specific to the needs of the game and optimized in ways that a General Game Engine can't be optimized in. If Time was a Factor but Money wasn't then I would say license an engine that we are able to get the source code for and does as much as possible out of the box... Something like Hero hosted on our own Servers and with Source Code Access would be ideal or same for BigWorld. I know those 2 engines take alot of heat based on the games that have come out using them so far but they really are viable engines. If both Time and Money were issues then Unity3D is a great choice as well but you will need to be prepared to do a ton of custom coding since Unity just wasn't designed with MMOs in mind.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Damn James, the alarm you have in the batcave must not be working very well since I posted this many hours ago and you JUST got here.... Normally, within just a few minutes you pop into whatever greed monger discussion is going on... Anyhow regardless- Glad you came. Welcome to the Mos Eisley Canteena of the internet.

Our conversation on mmorpg.com was cut very short and the thread was butchered and posts deleted and things still left very unclear.

James- remember this PM?

Hello. Everything I am about to say is to go no further then this PM until we officially announce things. However I've said that major changes are taking place internally and I mean it... Jason is no longer leading Development of GM. He is on the Board of Directors of my Company, MMOInteractive, so he still has a say in what happens with GM but we have taking total control over development of GM. We are dedicated to ensuring the KS Backers and Community get the game they were sold on. Our PR Department will be taking over full control of GM's PR and we provide the Development Team to get the game complete. ElectricCrow Games will be providing the financial resources for the Servers and other Financial resources for other areas.

As for my Company my Business Partner Joel who is also leading up our PR Department and I are in the process of Registering our Company and making everything 100% legal from a Business perspective, Our team is growing on a Daily basis, and we are enacting MAJOR changes on the GM front.

Our Company is 100% dedicated to creating Innovative and entertaining MMOs and all of the resources at our Disposal will be going toward ensuring GM is a Success. We owe that much to our Community and Backers.

MMOInteractive
James E. Proctor


-Lets start here. Because on the mmorpg.com thread I asked you why you sent this to me just days after making a video for a new project you planned to kickstart (Just need 1200 for the prototype) and you gave me some bullshit about how you were quitting GM but decided you just couldnt do it tothe backers blah...blah..blah..nThat the deal fell through because your "Business partner" didnt want to be associated with the bad rep of this game...etc.

EDIT- Here is the only part of that post left- These are YOUR words.

"However Before we were able to sign anything and make it all legal Joel looked into GM more and decided it would be in his best interest if he walked away because he didn't want to have GM's bad rep. being associated with him. So the deal fell through. MMOInteractive is still unregistered and I'm still working on GM by my self. When the deal fell through the entire team we had built up walked away as well.

You wanted the truth there's the truth. I have NEVER lied. GM's Kickstarter backers are the ONLY reason I am still working on GM and I'm still dedicated to seeing this thing through. If it wasn't for them I would have left a LONG time ago and done my own games."

So- You never answered a plethora of questions surrounding this.

For instance-- In the video you posted talking about the other MMORPG you were planning on crowdfunding you actually said "Go to the greed monger forum" for information (something to that effect)-

How then- Could you have made that video during a time you were planning to quit gred monger when you reference the greed monger forum as a place for info?

What company is developing greed monger?

I'll be nice but remember- Your words are already online and in videos so you should be truthful for once.And this thread more than likely will not be butchered nor closed at your request.

Why do I care?because you fuckers are the biggest scammers I have ever come across. Let the game speak for itself? lol. Just change the name to Grimoire...Please... I will give you $100 for the name change.

I will say when you fuckers threaten to sue 2 forums I belong to- Then make cocky promises and statements- Then lie like fuck everywhere you show up,use the same excuses and never answer for anything- Its not easily forgotten. 3 years ago you guys were giving us the "Just wait troll motherfuckers- " while organizing your fans on your forum to attack us and get threads closed on other forums if the conversation was 'negative' towards GM or warning people about the scam (Fans who are no longer there anymore..) these things will never be forgotten. Unless you rename the game Grimoire... Then we will have peace throughout the land.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

And James... You supposedly are paying people. remember THIS post?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/429764/page/5

"lol wow and as for your comment about if I should get money... YOU may be a small hobby Project but we AREN'T. It takes money to develop a Commercially Viable MMO. Do you have a Server your renting? Do you have a team that requires Pay? Are you using Custom Models that costs money to buy or have Developed Custom? And for the Record when we started out and Launched our KickStarter we were NOT using Atavism. We did our KickStarter long before Atavism came on the scene. And something else for the record I am Volunteer... I have Seen VERY little of the KickStarter money. I am working on GM Full Time Volunteer because I believe in the Game and Vision we are trying to build and I believe in our Community and all of our KickStarter backers and I WANT more then anything to give them the game they deserve and bought into. "

-Who are you paying and what team do you have when you just said the team"walked away"- Why is the lead Programmer (you) not being paid but you are paying others? Whos funding it? And why rent servers when jason Appleton already had $50,000 in dedicated servers for this game?

 

[DarKPenguiN]

How is THIS all you have to show for 3 years and over 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS?



Us trolls have been waiting- And this is all you have shown.

And why were the videos you used during the Kickstarter in far better condition than what you are showing us years later. Looked better, spells worked, etc... How is it that the game is in far worse of a state than when you were begging for money to fund it?

EDIT- Also note that its not worth saying "It wasnt me- it was jason Appleton"- That ship sailed YEARS ago. That fucking excuse is over. Appletons been gone essentially since the check cleared. YOUR name is on the Kickstarer. YOU keep playing Mr. "Lead programmer" and YOU keep defending everything . You're it buddy. Until Appleton crawls out from the rock he hiding under.

While Kickstarter was happening THIS was what was being shown. Even on your forum a backer was showing what was shown at kickstart and asking "what the fuck happened ?" Where is THIS game?

-How the fuck do you guys have that to show while begging for money and promising an Alpha in a few months - and now , 3 years and a Hundred thousand dollars later (still not even in alpha) it looks worse? After all the time and money supposedly spent. After having a "team" at one point? How old are these pics , james? Why does that video represent the current state when it looked better at KS? You guys played it up too- Like "if itlooks this good and we arent even in Alpha- Just wait!"

Fuckers.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Ok... Here goes... To show that nothing I said was a lie but instead just a failed Business Deal I'm going to take you through step by step all of our Skype Conversation... This is going to be a VERY long post but it should show that I am telling the truth unless of course you start believing that I just made it all up in which case there is really nothing I can do about that. Please note that some of what was talked about WILL be edited out since Joel and I discussed some things that doesn't need to be discussed here. Just internal Business affairs and venting which I'm sure you would LOVE to read about but it's not going to happen.

[1/11/2015 12:20:55 AM] James Proctor: Hello! Haven't seen you on in a while!
[1/11/2015 12:20:57 AM] James Proctor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jys4rAzP27o
[1/11/2015 12:21:49 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:22:46 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:23:04 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:20 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:23:23 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:44 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:47 AM] Joel R Hager: :/
[1/11/2015 12:23:54 AM] James Proctor: No idea but anyways... Hello! lol
[1/11/2015 12:24:07 AM] Joel R Hager: You remember who this is, right?
[1/11/2015 12:24:12 AM] James Proctor: yes
[1/11/2015 12:24:20 AM] Joel R Hager: Gotta restart. Updating. One second.
[1/11/2015 12:24:26 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/11/2015 12:25:59 AM] Joel R Hager: Back.
[1/11/2015 12:26:04 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/11/2015 12:26:58 AM] James Proctor: But anyways I know exactly who you are... You helped me run MMO Interactive during our last attempt to get RoH created with the Hero Engine... lol
[1/11/2015 12:27:22 AM] Joel R Hager: Yes. I was.
[1/11/2015 12:27:32 AM] Joel R Hager: So, you're trying to give it legs again?
[1/11/2015 12:28:31 AM] James Proctor: In my free time yes... I'm still working for Jason Appleton on Greed Monger... I'm now basically the entire team... lol He helps once in a while with some stuff but he's basically just providing the money.
[1/11/2015 12:28:45 AM] Joel R Hager: Is he paying you?
[1/11/2015 12:28:51 AM] James Proctor: lol not yet
[1/11/2015 12:29:05 AM] Joel R Hager: Wow. That's a *lot* of work with no pay. I'd be careful about that.
[1/11/2015 12:29:25 AM] James Proctor: Edited Details of my working with Jason.
[1/11/2015 12:29:49 AM] Joel R Hager: Yeah. Promises don't mean anything unless the person's word means something.
[1/11/2015 12:30:39 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:31:00 AM] Joel R Hager: That's a BAD thing to have happen.
[1/11/2015 12:31:06 AM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/11/2015 12:31:18 AM] Joel R Hager: A negative value in the community *before* launch is usually a sign of a non-starter.
[1/11/2015 12:31:48 AM] Joel R Hager: I'd really consider taking the time to make an announcement and rebrand yourselves before release, to hopefully win back some of the prospective players.
[1/11/2015 12:31:59 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:33:03 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:33:44 AM] Joel R Hager: ...and with such a bad public image, you're not gonna have a good chance of success. Then, let's say *IF* he does get something going, then he *will* have enough money to viciously and punitively litigate.
[1/11/2015 12:33:51 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds like a bad idea all the way around.
[1/11/2015 12:35:02 AM] James Proctor: I would just hate to leave and see GM go no where. People backed us to the sum of $100,000 and even more with sales after our KickStarter I'd hate to see them waste their money like that. However pretty much everyone is telling me to leave. Even a bunch of people over at MMORPG.com told me I should leave and go it alone with out Jason.
[1/11/2015 12:35:33 AM] Joel R Hager: Yeah, didn't GM get a TON of money from kickstarter? How the hell is he not paying you???
[1/11/2015 12:35:44 AM] Joel R Hager: Who holds the IP for GM?
[1/11/2015 12:35:51 AM] James Proctor: Jason does.
[1/11/2015 12:35:59 AM] Joel R Hager: ....and he got the money?
[1/11/2015 12:36:13 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds like he's fucking up badly.
[1/11/2015 12:36:25 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:36:33 AM] James Proctor: yes he got the money
[1/11/2015 12:36:36 AM] Joel R Hager: That's a *bad* sign, man. I'd run if I were you.
[1/11/2015 12:37:54 AM] James Proctor: All of this is why I've started RoH up again. I want something ready to fall back on when the time comes and I had always planned on starting it up again after GM anyways. I have alot of custom tech that I've coded for GM ready to rock and roll for RoH.
[1/11/2015 12:38:12 AM] Joel R Hager: Very cool.
[1/11/2015 12:38:34 AM] Joel R Hager: I'd be proactive about leaving, to be honest. The longer you associate with Jason, the more negatively it could impact you in your future endeavors.
[1/11/2015 12:42:31 AM] James Proctor: Ok here's the deal... I really want you back. I want to get in touch with as many of our old team as possible and I want as many of them back as possible... Edited... GM and RoH share alot of the same goals heck alot of features we talked about for RoH were going to be included in GM as well. Are you up for it or would you rather sit this out? Edited...
[1/11/2015 12:43:44 AM] Joel R Hager: It depends at this point, to be honest. I'm OK with handling business affairs and overseeing things and whatnot (especially since I'll probably be in Los Angeles in the next few months). There *is*, however, one elephant in the room that could *really* hurt us, and I want it addressed before we move any further.

We then discussed my religious views and how it might or might not effect RoH... Joel then agreed to come back...

[1/11/2015 12:47:37 AM] James Proctor: I'll give you the way I left it with GM...
[1/11/2015 12:51:41 AM] James Proctor: RoH is a Sandbox game... As such the main content is Player Driven... If players want to RP Religion and everything to have their fun then that's their choice... If they want to build temples and churches and have some idol that they worship with in this Virtual World then that's their choice as well... We don't need to promote that style of play or add in mechanics into the game to promote that style of play... However we won't interfere with it. If we add in a System because it makes sense to add in but it ends up being used to promote that style of play then fine it also makes sense else where in the game for other styles of play... As for Magic we will have a typical MMO Fantasy/Scifi style combat system that includes Magic... It's ONLY fantasy...
[1/11/2015 12:52:15 AM] Joel R Hager: I see you've grown since we last spoke. A fortunate realization for me.
[1/11/2015 12:52:20 AM] Joel R Hager: You now have my intereset.
[1/11/2015 12:52:24 AM] James Proctor: lol
[1/11/2015 12:52:52 AM] Joel R Hager: The separation between a fantasy game and real life is a very important distinction for someone of faith.
[1/11/2015 12:53:07 AM] James Proctor: I still hold firm to my beliefs but I also want to have a fun and enjoyable MMO for all...
[1/11/2015 12:53:08 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm glad you can make the distinction, and not let it bother you. This bodes well for RoH

Talking about a Potential KS Campaign for RoH:

[1/11/2015 12:56:28 AM] James Proctor: You can worry about how to spin it and ways we can make sure EDITED... I'll worry about EDITED know about us and getting a Prototype put together so we have actual game play to show off for the KS Campaign...
[1/11/2015 12:57:32 AM] James Proctor: You and I will be 50/50 partners in this... I want to actually see the money if our KS Campaign succeeds and I want BOTH of us to be accountable for making sure the funds get used for their intended use.
[1/11/2015 12:58:02 AM] James Proctor: EDITED But talking about how it's a bad idea to have a single person with access to the KS Money...
[1/11/2015 12:58:04 AM] Joel R Hager: That is amenable to me.
[1/11/2015 12:58:18 AM] Joel R Hager: Not at all. Absolute power corrupts absoltely.
[1/11/2015 12:58:21 AM] Joel R Hager: absolutely*

Fast forward 2 days to January 13th 2015:

[1/13/2015 8:21:21 PM] James Proctor: I don't know if Jason is available right this minute...
[1/13/2015 8:23:24 PM] James Proctor: However we can discuss some things... Personally I still believe in GM and the product Jason had in mind... I would really like for us to do a joint venture with him on it... We take control of the Project... We handle the PR for GM... He can have a behind the scenes role and input in it and provide the Money for the Servers while we provide the Team and handle the outward appearence...
[1/13/2015 8:24:28 PM] Joel R Hager: I'm amenable to that. Do you really think he'll go for that though?
[1/13/2015 8:24:55 PM] James Proctor: I have no idea... Edited...
[1/13/2015 8:26:23 PM] James Proctor: If he goes along with it though our first order of Business should be to rebrand and do whatever it takes to put the bad PR behind us...
[1/13/2015 8:27:06 PM] Joel R Hager: New blood will help
[1/13/2015 8:27:09 PM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/13/2015 8:32:07 PM] James Proctor: Seems like Jason isn't around just yet. I've sent him a message on facebook though saying I have something to discuss with him so as soon as he comes back I'll create a group discussion for us.
[1/13/2015 8:34:18 PM] Joel R Hager: It's fine - I'm on my mobile currently
[1/13/2015 8:34:28 PM] James Proctor: ok
[1/13/2015 8:48:32 PM] Joel R Hager: What is Jason's personality like?
[1/13/2015 8:49:43 PM] James Proctor: EDITED... No one needs to know what I think of Jason or what Jason thinks of me...
[1/13/2015 8:50:12 PM] Joel R Hager: That doesn't bode well for negotiations.
[1/13/2015 8:50:53 PM] James Proctor: Like he wanted to push GM right through testing as quickly as possible I told him it would be better to slow it down and make sure things are tested and sound before rushing it to the next Testing phase and he disagreed...
[1/13/2015 8:53:16 PM] James Proctor: EDITED - Jason and I had different views on what Alpha should be... No one needs to know the exact different views.
[1/13/2015 8:53:33 PM] Joel R Hager: Yep

A few hours later:

[1/13/2015 10:12:56 PM] James Proctor: EDITED - talking about something None GM related.
[1/13/2015 10:14:36 PM] James Proctor:
[1/13/2015 10:22:50 PM] James Proctor:
[1/13/2015 10:25:00 PM] James Proctor: Ok Joel Jason is on now...
[1/13/2015 10:25:07 PM] James Proctor: On Skype I mean...
[1/13/2015 11:00:27 PM] James Proctor: Ok MMO Interactive now has control of GM! lol
[1/13/2015 11:35:29 PM] Joel R Hager: Really? Sorry, my phone fucking died as I got your message about Jason.
[1/13/2015 11:35:34 PM] Joel R Hager: I just got home.
[1/13/2015 11:35:49 PM] James Proctor: cool.
[1/13/2015 11:35:54 PM] James Proctor: But yeah he agreed
[1/13/2015 11:36:15 PM] James Proctor: He doesn't want it announced yet until he sees progress being made. EDIT - Which is why it was never Officially announced... The deal fell through before Jason told us to announce it... I just told you and I believe one other on MMORPG.com privately hoping it would buy us some time where we could work and have everything become official with out you guys bashing us publicly.
[1/13/2015 11:37:26 PM] Joel R Hager: That's perfectly fine by me.
[1/13/2015 11:37:43 PM] Joel R Hager: Are we privy to the resources amassed from the KS project though? We need resources to move things forward.
[1/13/2015 11:38:06 PM] James Proctor: resources? Money resources or art assets?
[1/13/2015 11:38:38 PM] Joel R Hager: Unity's license - resources for product acquisitions, etc.
[1/13/2015 11:38:43 PM] Joel R Hager: But yes - Money *is* part of it.
[1/13/2015 11:39:56 PM] James Proctor: The Unity License we bought is mine so yes we have access to that... We have access to GM's world that was created, Art assets, code, ect. EDIT but Jason is going to continue paying for the Servers.
[1/13/2015 11:41:33 PM] James Proctor: You and Jason will have to work out the Business aspects percentage of the profits MMO Interactive will be getting, ect. but I would wait until Jason sees we are making progress...
[1/13/2015 11:41:44 PM] Joel R Hager: Of course. In due time.

Over the next few days Jason, Joel, and My self try to work everything out... There are countless fights and arguments between ElectricCrow Games and MMOInteractive... Fights over who truly has control of PR and other things... Joel and I discuss how MMOI should be structured as well as other things:


[1/24/2015 8:20:39 PM] James Proctor: Jason wants to know when he will be seeing the agreement... I told him that I was assuming it would be after we became an official Company... Any idea when both of those will be yet?
[1/25/2015 1:49:30 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm gonna see if I can tie in the company with my EIN I already have.
[1/25/2015 1:50:10 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/25/2015 1:52:05 AM] James Proctor: Combat is really starting to take Shape Visually... Really Excited with how it's turning out.
[1/25/2015 1:52:23 AM] Joel R Hager: Very cool!
[1/25/2015 1:53:12 AM] James Proctor: I still need to add in Mob vs Mob and Player vs Player but I currently have Player vs Mob and Mob vs Player working great.
[1/25/2015 1:53:45 AM] James Proctor: And then of course I need to add in all of the math to decide damage and everything
[1/25/2015 1:56:44 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm asking a lawyer what the tax structure has to be for MMOI.
[1/25/2015 1:57:04 AM] Joel R Hager: If I can put it under my company Z-Shift, then we can save the money and be ligitimate very quickly.
[1/25/2015 1:57:15 AM] James Proctor: ok cool
[1/25/2015 1:57:56 AM] James Proctor: How much will it be if we can't? I think I've seen sites online where you can register a company for like $100...
[1/25/2015 1:58:23 AM] Joel R Hager: That's just the app. Then there's a 180 filing fee and other stuff. It usually comes out to about 300-400 bucks using a boiler plate site.
[1/25/2015 1:58:31 AM] Joel R Hager: It's about 200-250 if you file the paperwork yourself.
[1/25/2015 1:58:51 AM] James Proctor: oh
[1/25/2015 1:59:30 AM] Joel R Hager: Do we want to make MMOI the company name, or a division of a larger company type? I ask this because MMOI is *very* specific -- We can't make party games or small apps that would make sense under that name.
[1/25/2015 1:59:54 AM] James Proctor: More then what we have at this time... lol My Original Plan was to get GM to Alpha and then register MMOI if Jason came through with my $5,000 he's supposed to be paying me at the launch of Alpha.
[1/25/2015 2:00:53 AM] Joel R Hager: Let's really hammer down what we want the actual Parent company name to be.
[1/25/2015 2:01:07 AM] Joel R Hager: MMOI limits us 'from a PR standpoint' to MMO-type games.
[1/25/2015 2:01:19 AM] Joel R Hager: There's a LOT of money in coding mobile games, and small browser stuff in Unity.
[1/25/2015 2:01:27 AM] Joel R Hager: Something to definitely think about.
[1/25/2015 2:01:31 AM] Joel R Hager: It's also good to diversify
[1/25/2015 2:02:14 AM] James Proctor: Really MMOs are the only type of Games I personally am interested in working on... We would need another team and some one else to head up any offline game division we had...
[1/25/2015 2:03:04 AM] Joel R Hager: Yes, but it's better to have a company that *can* handle all types of games and just chooses to specify, rather than a pigeonholed company that can't ever branch out. At least in my opinion.
[1/25/2015 2:03:13 AM] Joel R Hager: The whole goal is to grow, which would mean another division.
[1/25/2015 2:03:22 AM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/25/2015 2:03:54 AM] James Proctor: We can discuss it tomorrow. I need to get going. We can be thinking about names and stuff until then.
[1/25/2015 2:04:05 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds good.

More work being done in GM:

[1/31/2015 3:40:23 AM] James Proctor: How Are things going?
[1/31/2015 3:40:35 AM] Joel R Hager: They’re going. lol
[1/31/2015 3:40:44 AM] James Proctor: Got some extremely cool tools in the works...

Feb. 24th Joel and I discuss things again and he's decided to leave...

[2/24/2015 8:11:41 PM] Joel R Hager: This is bullshit. He's a nightmare, literally.
[2/24/2015 8:12:07 PM] Joel R Hager: I'm unfortunately going to have to hang up my hat on this project, and I suggest you find an unobtrusive way of doing the same.
[2/24/2015 8:12:39 PM] Joel R Hager: Your career will be over before it starts if you stay with him. It's bad enough we're in deep shit, but it just keeps getting deeper. This guy is literally Defcon 5 crazy.

After this the team falls apart... The Deal falls through since Joel is no longer with us and I have no money to start MMOI at the moment... And I just continue working on GM by my self... Nothing get's announced because everything falls apart before we have a chance to... So NOTHING changes... ElectricCrow Games is still fully in control of GM and I'm still working for them with plans to start MMOI as soon as I get enough money from GM.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=73e85069dd5021953e62aeb2c&id=b318df5091

^^^ Says I am passionate about gaming above anything else and am making an mmorpg while finding the best, most qualified and passionate people... Takes over 100,000 of other people money .Hires this guy as the lead Dev for no pay.


-James.You need to go get jason. Unless hes too busy sucking cock. I'll be honest- Whats coming here is unfair to JUST you. But its going to happen regardless.

"I'm not going anywhere- The games not going anywhere"- Jason Appleton Jan 2013

-For what its worth james. I dont hate you.In favct I think you have far bigger balls than Jason. You've been there taking the heat. Much respect in that regard...Still isnt go to change anything but I want you to know this isnt personal against "you". Its time for answers. If you want to keep taking this shit alone when not even having benefited from the money. So be it.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

What the heck does my personal Political and Religious views have to do with anything at all regarding MMO Development or Greed Monger. What's the point your trying to make by showing my personal video? Are you trying to say I have no right to post personal things on my personal Youtube account? Just because my views may not line up with yours means absolutely nothing! So what I love my Country... I love my fellow man/woman... I respect others and feel that everyone should be treated equal... I love God... I love the Bible... I'm a born again Christian... That's WHO I am so sue me for crying out loud... All of that has NOTHING to do with my ability as a Programmer or my ability to see Greed Monger through to launch!

 

[DarKPenguiN]

-Also curious about the new Home Jason Appleton bought after receiving the Kickstart money.

Nice home? I bet it is...

@ jason Appleton- I have zero respect for you. You're lead dev has been there dealing with all this shit while you hide. Nope. You jason Appleton are swine.

Jason we told you that the internet never forgets. It hasnt.

Jason,when you had a platform on Markee Dragon it felt cool to bash and lie about brash didnt it? When you had the floor to spin things without hard questions being asked. Is it just the whole Dialogue thing that bothers you? You sure were around alot while the Kickstarter was going on . Those questioning your lies were just jealous of the 'popularity" of this "game". You said brash was a failed game dev or "artist or something" and could not stand someone "making it" who doesnt have 20 years in the industry....Just haters and trolls. How it feel now that you 'made it?"

 

[Norfleet]

How is THIS all you have to show for 3 years and over 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS?

3 years isn't a long time, 100K isn't a lot. Maybe someday a baby will fly.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

How is THIS all you have to show for 3 years and over 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS?

3 years isn't a long time, 100K isn't a lot. Maybe someday a baby will fly.

I realize this. So did everyone else as this was pointed out during the kickstarter (which only wanted 30K). jason Appleton claimed he was developing this with his own money, has 50K worth of servers in a facility and was doing this out of his own pocket. He claimed there were investors beating down his door he had turned down because he was fortunate enough to be "quite well off" with all the successful businesses he had and this entire project was a labor of love.

He claimed there was some old millionaire who was like a father to him (I am paraphrasing here) who would fund it if need be.

He claimed he was only doing the KS to 'gauge interest" and attract a community that was as passionate as he was.

He claimed the Alpha was 4 months away.

He claimed he was putting together a carefully chosen team and being very picky.

He tried to censor any negativity when this was pointed out, melted down, threatened individual forum members and then threatened totake the kickstart funding to sue 2 forums for not deleting "negative" comments.

He showed those above screen shots and made the claims he did.

So none of that matters. At all.

One of the last Kickstart updates he did ... From July of 2014- he used this excuse. That other MMOs need 10x the money and manpower...Blah..balh.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-crafting-focused-sandbox-mmorpg/posts/918293

To which a backer said "

1. 
   Weezr on July 18, 2014
   I find it slightly hilarious that you use the budget of the game as an excuse for the lackadaisical progress made in the past two years. You set the goal at $30,000. You received over $90,000 yet still claim this is merely 10% of what other games with similar aspirations have been given. Do you not think that maybe you should have thought about that before making the goal a measly $30,000? Imagine if you barely made that goal? Where would you be now? Three years away from any sort of release? I am glad you have learned a lesson in video game production, but I am sorry that it was done at the expense of your backers' money, of which I am one.
   

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Ok... Here goes... To show that nothing I said was a lie but instead just a failed Business Deal I'm going to take you through step by step all of our Skype Conversation... This is going to be a VERY long post but it should show that I am telling the truth unless of course you start believing that I just made it all up in which case there is really nothing I can do about that. Please note that some of what was talked about WILL be edited out since Joel and I discussed some things that doesn't need to be discussed here. Just internal Business affairs and venting which I'm sure you would LOVE to read about but it's not going to happen.

[1/11/2015 12:20:55 AM] James Proctor: Hello! Haven't seen you on in a while!
[1/11/2015 12:20:57 AM] James Proctor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jys4rAzP27o
[1/11/2015 12:21:49 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:22:46 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:23:04 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:20 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:23:23 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:44 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:23:47 AM] Joel R Hager: :/
[1/11/2015 12:23:54 AM] James Proctor: No idea but anyways... Hello! lol
[1/11/2015 12:24:07 AM] Joel R Hager: You remember who this is, right?
[1/11/2015 12:24:12 AM] James Proctor: yes
[1/11/2015 12:24:20 AM] Joel R Hager: Gotta restart. Updating. One second.
[1/11/2015 12:24:26 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/11/2015 12:25:59 AM] Joel R Hager: Back.
[1/11/2015 12:26:04 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/11/2015 12:26:58 AM] James Proctor: But anyways I know exactly who you are... You helped me run MMO Interactive during our last attempt to get RoH created with the Hero Engine... lol
[1/11/2015 12:27:22 AM] Joel R Hager: Yes. I was.
[1/11/2015 12:27:32 AM] Joel R Hager: So, you're trying to give it legs again?
[1/11/2015 12:28:31 AM] James Proctor: In my free time yes... I'm still working for Jason Appleton on Greed Monger... I'm now basically the entire team... lol He helps once in a while with some stuff but he's basically just providing the money.
[1/11/2015 12:28:45 AM] Joel R Hager: Is he paying you?
[1/11/2015 12:28:51 AM] James Proctor: lol not yet
[1/11/2015 12:29:05 AM] Joel R Hager: Wow. That's a *lot* of work with no pay. I'd be careful about that.
[1/11/2015 12:29:25 AM] James Proctor: Edited Details of my working with Jason.
[1/11/2015 12:29:49 AM] Joel R Hager: Yeah. Promises don't mean anything unless the person's word means something.
[1/11/2015 12:30:39 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:31:00 AM] Joel R Hager: That's a BAD thing to have happen.
[1/11/2015 12:31:06 AM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/11/2015 12:31:18 AM] Joel R Hager: A negative value in the community *before* launch is usually a sign of a non-starter.
[1/11/2015 12:31:48 AM] Joel R Hager: I'd really consider taking the time to make an announcement and rebrand yourselves before release, to hopefully win back some of the prospective players.
[1/11/2015 12:31:59 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:33:03 AM] Joel R Hager:
[1/11/2015 12:33:44 AM] Joel R Hager: ...and with such a bad public image, you're not gonna have a good chance of success. Then, let's say *IF* he does get something going, then he *will* have enough money to viciously and punitively litigate.
[1/11/2015 12:33:51 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds like a bad idea all the way around.
[1/11/2015 12:35:02 AM] James Proctor: I would just hate to leave and see GM go no where. People backed us to the sum of $100,000 and even more with sales after our KickStarter I'd hate to see them waste their money like that. However pretty much everyone is telling me to leave. Even a bunch of people over at MMORPG.com told me I should leave and go it alone with out Jason.
[1/11/2015 12:35:33 AM] Joel R Hager: Yeah, didn't GM get a TON of money from kickstarter? How the hell is he not paying you???
[1/11/2015 12:35:44 AM] Joel R Hager: Who holds the IP for GM?
[1/11/2015 12:35:51 AM] James Proctor: Jason does.
[1/11/2015 12:35:59 AM] Joel R Hager: ....and he got the money?
[1/11/2015 12:36:13 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds like he's fucking up badly.
[1/11/2015 12:36:25 AM] James Proctor:
[1/11/2015 12:36:33 AM] James Proctor: yes he got the money
[1/11/2015 12:36:36 AM] Joel R Hager: That's a *bad* sign, man. I'd run if I were you.
[1/11/2015 12:37:54 AM] James Proctor: All of this is why I've started RoH up again. I want something ready to fall back on when the time comes and I had always planned on starting it up again after GM anyways. I have alot of custom tech that I've coded for GM ready to rock and roll for RoH.
[1/11/2015 12:38:12 AM] Joel R Hager: Very cool.
[1/11/2015 12:38:34 AM] Joel R Hager: I'd be proactive about leaving, to be honest. The longer you associate with Jason, the more negatively it could impact you in your future endeavors.
[1/11/2015 12:42:31 AM] James Proctor: Ok here's the deal... I really want you back. I want to get in touch with as many of our old team as possible and I want as many of them back as possible... Edited... GM and RoH share alot of the same goals heck alot of features we talked about for RoH were going to be included in GM as well. Are you up for it or would you rather sit this out? Edited...
[1/11/2015 12:43:44 AM] Joel R Hager: It depends at this point, to be honest. I'm OK with handling business affairs and overseeing things and whatnot (especially since I'll probably be in Los Angeles in the next few months). There *is*, however, one elephant in the room that could *really* hurt us, and I want it addressed before we move any further.

We then discussed my religious views and how it might or might not effect RoH... Joel then agreed to come back...

[1/11/2015 12:47:37 AM] James Proctor: I'll give you the way I left it with GM...
[1/11/2015 12:51:41 AM] James Proctor: RoH is a Sandbox game... As such the main content is Player Driven... If players want to RP Religion and everything to have their fun then that's their choice... If they want to build temples and churches and have some idol that they worship with in this Virtual World then that's their choice as well... We don't need to promote that style of play or add in mechanics into the game to promote that style of play... However we won't interfere with it. If we add in a System because it makes sense to add in but it ends up being used to promote that style of play then fine it also makes sense else where in the game for other styles of play... As for Magic we will have a typical MMO Fantasy/Scifi style combat system that includes Magic... It's ONLY fantasy...
[1/11/2015 12:52:15 AM] Joel R Hager: I see you've grown since we last spoke. A fortunate realization for me.
[1/11/2015 12:52:20 AM] Joel R Hager: You now have my intereset.
[1/11/2015 12:52:24 AM] James Proctor: lol
[1/11/2015 12:52:52 AM] Joel R Hager: The separation between a fantasy game and real life is a very important distinction for someone of faith.
[1/11/2015 12:53:07 AM] James Proctor: I still hold firm to my beliefs but I also want to have a fun and enjoyable MMO for all...
[1/11/2015 12:53:08 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm glad you can make the distinction, and not let it bother you. This bodes well for RoH

Talking about a Potential KS Campaign for RoH:

[1/11/2015 12:56:28 AM] James Proctor: You can worry about how to spin it and ways we can make sure EDITED... I'll worry about EDITED know about us and getting a Prototype put together so we have actual game play to show off for the KS Campaign...
[1/11/2015 12:57:32 AM] James Proctor: You and I will be 50/50 partners in this... I want to actually see the money if our KS Campaign succeeds and I want BOTH of us to be accountable for making sure the funds get used for their intended use.
[1/11/2015 12:58:02 AM] James Proctor: EDITED But talking about how it's a bad idea to have a single person with access to the KS Money...
[1/11/2015 12:58:04 AM] Joel R Hager: That is amenable to me.
[1/11/2015 12:58:18 AM] Joel R Hager: Not at all. Absolute power corrupts absoltely.
[1/11/2015 12:58:21 AM] Joel R Hager: absolutely*

Fast forward 2 days to January 13th 2015:

[1/13/2015 8:21:21 PM] James Proctor: I don't know if Jason is available right this minute...
[1/13/2015 8:23:24 PM] James Proctor: However we can discuss some things... Personally I still believe in GM and the product Jason had in mind... I would really like for us to do a joint venture with him on it... We take control of the Project... We handle the PR for GM... He can have a behind the scenes role and input in it and provide the Money for the Servers while we provide the Team and handle the outward appearence...
[1/13/2015 8:24:28 PM] Joel R Hager: I'm amenable to that. Do you really think he'll go for that though?
[1/13/2015 8:24:55 PM] James Proctor: I have no idea... Edited...
[1/13/2015 8:26:23 PM] James Proctor: If he goes along with it though our first order of Business should be to rebrand and do whatever it takes to put the bad PR behind us...
[1/13/2015 8:27:06 PM] Joel R Hager: New blood will help
[1/13/2015 8:27:09 PM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/13/2015 8:32:07 PM] James Proctor: Seems like Jason isn't around just yet. I've sent him a message on facebook though saying I have something to discuss with him so as soon as he comes back I'll create a group discussion for us.
[1/13/2015 8:34:18 PM] Joel R Hager: It's fine - I'm on my mobile currently
[1/13/2015 8:34:28 PM] James Proctor: ok
[1/13/2015 8:48:32 PM] Joel R Hager: What is Jason's personality like?
[1/13/2015 8:49:43 PM] James Proctor: EDITED... No one needs to know what I think of Jason or what Jason thinks of me...
[1/13/2015 8:50:12 PM] Joel R Hager: That doesn't bode well for negotiations.
[1/13/2015 8:50:53 PM] James Proctor: Like he wanted to push GM right through testing as quickly as possible I told him it would be better to slow it down and make sure things are tested and sound before rushing it to the next Testing phase and he disagreed...
[1/13/2015 8:53:16 PM] James Proctor: EDITED - Jason and I had different views on what Alpha should be... No one needs to know the exact different views.
[1/13/2015 8:53:33 PM] Joel R Hager: Yep

A few hours later:

[1/13/2015 10:12:56 PM] James Proctor: EDITED - talking about something None GM related.
[1/13/2015 10:14:36 PM] James Proctor:
[1/13/2015 10:22:50 PM] James Proctor:
[1/13/2015 10:25:00 PM] James Proctor: Ok Joel Jason is on now...
[1/13/2015 10:25:07 PM] James Proctor: On Skype I mean...
[1/13/2015 11:00:27 PM] James Proctor: Ok MMO Interactive now has control of GM! lol
[1/13/2015 11:35:29 PM] Joel R Hager: Really? Sorry, my phone fucking died as I got your message about Jason.
[1/13/2015 11:35:34 PM] Joel R Hager: I just got home.
[1/13/2015 11:35:49 PM] James Proctor: cool.
[1/13/2015 11:35:54 PM] James Proctor: But yeah he agreed
[1/13/2015 11:36:15 PM] James Proctor: He doesn't want it announced yet until he sees progress being made. EDIT - Which is why it was never Officially announced... The deal fell through before Jason told us to announce it... I just told you and I believe one other on MMORPG.com privately hoping it would buy us some time where we could work and have everything become official with out you guys bashing us publicly.
[1/13/2015 11:37:26 PM] Joel R Hager: That's perfectly fine by me.
[1/13/2015 11:37:43 PM] Joel R Hager: Are we privy to the resources amassed from the KS project though? We need resources to move things forward.
[1/13/2015 11:38:06 PM] James Proctor: resources? Money resources or art assets?
[1/13/2015 11:38:38 PM] Joel R Hager: Unity's license - resources for product acquisitions, etc.
[1/13/2015 11:38:43 PM] Joel R Hager: But yes - Money *is* part of it.
[1/13/2015 11:39:56 PM] James Proctor: The Unity License we bought is mine so yes we have access to that... We have access to GM's world that was created, Art assets, code, ect. EDIT but Jason is going to continue paying for the Servers.
[1/13/2015 11:41:33 PM] James Proctor: You and Jason will have to work out the Business aspects percentage of the profits MMO Interactive will be getting, ect. but I would wait until Jason sees we are making progress...
[1/13/2015 11:41:44 PM] Joel R Hager: Of course. In due time.

Over the next few days Jason, Joel, and My self try to work everything out... There are countless fights and arguments between ElectricCrow Games and MMOInteractive... Fights over who truly has control of PR and other things... Joel and I discuss how MMOI should be structured as well as other things:


[1/24/2015 8:20:39 PM] James Proctor: Jason wants to know when he will be seeing the agreement... I told him that I was assuming it would be after we became an official Company... Any idea when both of those will be yet?
[1/25/2015 1:49:30 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm gonna see if I can tie in the company with my EIN I already have.
[1/25/2015 1:50:10 AM] James Proctor: ok
[1/25/2015 1:52:05 AM] James Proctor: Combat is really starting to take Shape Visually... Really Excited with how it's turning out.
[1/25/2015 1:52:23 AM] Joel R Hager: Very cool!
[1/25/2015 1:53:12 AM] James Proctor: I still need to add in Mob vs Mob and Player vs Player but I currently have Player vs Mob and Mob vs Player working great.
[1/25/2015 1:53:45 AM] James Proctor: And then of course I need to add in all of the math to decide damage and everything
[1/25/2015 1:56:44 AM] Joel R Hager: I'm asking a lawyer what the tax structure has to be for MMOI.
[1/25/2015 1:57:04 AM] Joel R Hager: If I can put it under my company Z-Shift, then we can save the money and be ligitimate very quickly.
[1/25/2015 1:57:15 AM] James Proctor: ok cool
[1/25/2015 1:57:56 AM] James Proctor: How much will it be if we can't? I think I've seen sites online where you can register a company for like $100...
[1/25/2015 1:58:23 AM] Joel R Hager: That's just the app. Then there's a 180 filing fee and other stuff. It usually comes out to about 300-400 bucks using a boiler plate site.
[1/25/2015 1:58:31 AM] Joel R Hager: It's about 200-250 if you file the paperwork yourself.
[1/25/2015 1:58:51 AM] James Proctor: oh
[1/25/2015 1:59:30 AM] Joel R Hager: Do we want to make MMOI the company name, or a division of a larger company type? I ask this because MMOI is *very* specific -- We can't make party games or small apps that would make sense under that name.
[1/25/2015 1:59:54 AM] James Proctor: More then what we have at this time... lol My Original Plan was to get GM to Alpha and then register MMOI if Jason came through with my $5,000 he's supposed to be paying me at the launch of Alpha.
[1/25/2015 2:00:53 AM] Joel R Hager: Let's really hammer down what we want the actual Parent company name to be.
[1/25/2015 2:01:07 AM] Joel R Hager: MMOI limits us 'from a PR standpoint' to MMO-type games.
[1/25/2015 2:01:19 AM] Joel R Hager: There's a LOT of money in coding mobile games, and small browser stuff in Unity.
[1/25/2015 2:01:27 AM] Joel R Hager: Something to definitely think about.
[1/25/2015 2:01:31 AM] Joel R Hager: It's also good to diversify
[1/25/2015 2:02:14 AM] James Proctor: Really MMOs are the only type of Games I personally am interested in working on... We would need another team and some one else to head up any offline game division we had...
[1/25/2015 2:03:04 AM] Joel R Hager: Yes, but it's better to have a company that *can* handle all types of games and just chooses to specify, rather than a pigeonholed company that can't ever branch out. At least in my opinion.
[1/25/2015 2:03:13 AM] Joel R Hager: The whole goal is to grow, which would mean another division.
[1/25/2015 2:03:22 AM] James Proctor: yeah
[1/25/2015 2:03:54 AM] James Proctor: We can discuss it tomorrow. I need to get going. We can be thinking about names and stuff until then.
[1/25/2015 2:04:05 AM] Joel R Hager: Sounds good.

More work being done in GM:

[1/31/2015 3:40:23 AM] James Proctor: How Are things going?
[1/31/2015 3:40:35 AM] Joel R Hager: They’re going. lol
[1/31/2015 3:40:44 AM] James Proctor: Got some extremely cool tools in the works...

Feb. 24th Joel and I discuss things again and he's decided to leave...

[2/24/2015 8:11:41 PM] Joel R Hager: This is bullshit. He's a nightmare, literally.
[2/24/2015 8:12:07 PM] Joel R Hager: I'm unfortunately going to have to hang up my hat on this project, and I suggest you find an unobtrusive way of doing the same.
[2/24/2015 8:12:39 PM] Joel R Hager: Your career will be over before it starts if you stay with him. It's bad enough we're in deep shit, but it just keeps getting deeper. This guy is literally Defcon 5 crazy.

After this the team falls apart... The Deal falls through since Joel is no longer with us and I have no money to start MMOI at the moment... And I just continue working on GM by my self... Nothing get's announced because everything falls apart before we have a chance to... So NOTHING changes... ElectricCrow Games is still fully in control of GM and I'm still working for them with plans to start MMOI as soon as I get enough money from GM.

James. The advice your friend gave you at the end and what we've been saying to you on mmorpg.com. Run dude .Dont walk. Let Jason clean this mess up and stop using you as a shield. Work on your own things. You need to cut dead weight. jason was a hell of a marketer in the begining. he was slick. Hes a conman. You got caught up in some shit. I'm sorry about this but I had to do what I had to do.

Thanks for this. =)

I'm going to edit the title and add a notation to my initial post.

 

[Chamezero]

 

[DarKPenguiN]

What the heck does my personal Political and Religious views have to do with anything at all regarding MMO Development or Greed Monger. What's the point your trying to make by showing my personal video? Are you trying to say I have no right to post personal things on my personal Youtube account? Just because my views may not line up with yours means absolutely nothing! So what I love my Country... I love my fellow man/woman... I respect others and feel that everyone should be treated equal... I love God... I love the Bible... I'm a born again Christian... That's WHO I am so sue me for crying out loud... All of that has NOTHING to do with my ability as a Programmer or my ability to see Greed Monger through to launch!

I agree and I actually posted the wrong video. I was meaning to post the one for ROH. EDIT- I fixed it.

You seem like a nice guy james. I'm sorry. I know how shit looks . believe it or not, I think you are a good guy and we've talked on opposite sides for a longtime now. I've never really personally attacked you until now I dont think and I didnt want to do this to you.

For whatever its worth.

The log you posted explains alot.

 

[RK47]

It's like reading a hot hentai with no pictures.

 

[Scroo]

This thread is like a bizarre dream or something. We've got Angthoron seriously trying to discuss here, Dark Penguin trying to argue with the dev and the dev himself who... I am sorry GM_JamesPro, but as much as it honors you (I guess?) that you actually believe in all your projects this is all incredibly naive if you actually believe you will finish any of these products and that they will turn out as great mmorpgs that will entertain thousands of players. The above video is HORRIBLE and it's put together by stolen assets (the World of Warcraft Healing button art...) and I am 110 % sure that this will NEVER EVER turn out to be a game that is playable by anyone. All the energy you put into defending this mess and working for free (although I am also very sure that you aren't working on this full time, a) you get no money and b) there's way too little progress) could be used otherwise.

You should skip the MMO "developing" and switch to something where your energy is used more efficient.

 

[Angthoron]

It's like reading a hot hentai with no pictures.

We've got Angthoron

*flex*