Fallout Visual Design Thread

[Saldrone]

A post about talking and discussing the visual direction and retcons the series have been through regarding weapons, tools, armour and other miscellanous storytelling elements.

I'd start with the laser weapons:

These guns are in fact just modified versions of the sniper rifle and 10mm pistol:

However, Bethesda came and retconned their designs in favor to something more "distinctive" and "atompunk-isk" like this:

What's your opinion about these visual changes? It's an improvement or not?

 

[CHEMS]

Bethesda seems to have a mental blockage when it comes to gun design. And they're bad at it TILL THIS DAY!

 

[CHEMS]

I mean, compare how badass Plasma Pistols were in the first 2 games

and then F3 comes around and it became this abomination... looks like it's on crack...

Sure, there's the plasma defender that looks more like F2's Glock 86, but even still it looks like a lame toy

 

[Ol' Willy]

 

[CHEMS]

I really liked F2's gun design. Grease Gun looked slick as fuck even though its stats were ass

 

[Hellraiser]

The Bethesda take on the style is shit. /thread

In general I think the original Fallout game aesthetic wasn't pure 50s retro-futurism (not the first nor last thing Bethesda got wrong/changed), the 10mm, sniper rifle, laser pisol and laser rifle all seem like more contemporary futurism and Fallout has more of these modern aesthetics coming from Mad Max (thugs with mohawks obviously, but they're also a staple of other movies from that era) and whatever other 80s and 90s science fiction media the guys at Interplay liked. I mean Deckard's gun from Blade Runner is in the first game already (second one without Boyarsky already went more into real world guns and changed art direction in general) and as Ol' Willy just pointed out the 10mm design is stolen from an early 90s "near future" comic series.

With the sniper rifle it really looks like something an 80s or early 90s dystopian future movie would have with its rugged industrial look, used in (or rather above, on a rooftop) some dark crime filled alley with steam coming from the sewers and burning trash can fires, think Robocop.

 

[agris]

I really liked F2's gun design. Grease Gun looked slick as fuck even though its stats were ass

It’s an interesting point, if you compare new F2 gun icons vs OG F1’s, you can see a substantial change in style. I believe this is due to Leonard leaving during F2’s development to start Troika

 

[CHEMS]

I really liked F2's gun design. Grease Gun looked slick as fuck even though its stats were ass

It’s an interesting point, if you compare new F2 gun icons vs OG F1’s, you can see a substantial change in style. I believe this is due to Leonard leaving during F2’s development to start Troika

F2 drew inspiration of actual guns: grease gun, FN FAL, HKs, SWs, P90s... Tactics too. Then Bethesda came along and... uhh...

 

[Saldrone]

The Bethesda take on the style is shit. /thread

In general I think the original Fallout game aesthetic wasn't pure 50s retro-futurism, the 10mm, sniper rifle, laser pisol and laser rifle all seem like more contemporary futurism and Fallout has more of these modern aesthetics coming from Mad Max (thugs with mohawks obviously, but they're also a staple of other movies from that era) and whatever other 80s and 90s science fiction media the guys at Interplay liked. I mean Deckard's gun from Blade Runner is in the first game already (second one without Boyarsky already went more into real world guns and changed art direction in general) and as Ol' Willy just pointed out the 10mm design is stolen from an early 90s "near future" comic series.

With the sniper rifle it really looks like something an 80s or early 90s dystopian future movie would have with it's rugged industrial look, used in (or rather above, on a rooftop) some dark crime filled alley with steam coming from the sewers and burning trash can fires, think Robocop.

That's right. In fact, if you think about it the only weapons that's looks genuinaly 50s retro-futuristic are the pulse rifle/pistol that only appears in FO2

 

[Hellraiser]

That's right. In fact, if you think about it the only weapons that's looks genuinaly 50s retro-futuristic are the pulse rifle/pistol that only appears in FO2

IMO the Alien Blaster, Red Ryder BB gun (but that one is a "real world" one referring to this movie set in the 1940) and Plasma Rifle are the ones going for the retro 50s look, those are all FO1/Boyarsky (I think, did he have help on FO1 with this maybe?).

Stuff like the combat shotgun or flamer in particular look more as contemporary futurism to me (the 80s/early 90s robocop kind).

 

[lukaszek]

bethesda laser/plasma guns afaik were supposed to be tools first. And it looks fine for pistols. Whatever happened to riffles - no idea. Then there is an issue of sights and aiming

 

[Beastro]

and then F3 comes around and it became this abomination... looks like it's on crack...

 

[likash]

A post about talking and discussing the visual direction and retcons the series have been through regarding weapons, tools, armour and other miscellanous storytelling elements.

I'd start with the laser weapons:

These guns are in fact just modified versions of the sniper rifle and 10mm pistol:

However, Bethesda came and retconned their designs in favor to something more "distinctive" and "atompunk-isk" like this:

What's your opinion about these visual changes? It's an improvement or not?

Nothing that Bethesda did to Falllout is an improvment. The only semi good thing they did was letting Obsidian do New Vegas.

 

[Hellraiser]

Nothing that Bethesda did to Falllout is an improvment. The only semi good thing they did was letting Obsidian do New Vegas.

Merging repair and traps skills into one was fine, as was making/placing traps yourself kind of useful with mines (although I guess Tactics already did that). Giving perks more often was also not a bad idea, if their perks weren't largely garbage.

 

[Butter]

Putting the images side by side really drives home just how fucking awful the Bethesda designs look. Over-designed and impractical.

What's that? You want to holster your laser pistol? Too fucking bad. There's a strip of metal connecting the end of the barrel to the grip for some fucking reason.

 

[agris]

Does anyone know if F1 or F2 item icons are hand drawn, or renders from 3D models?

I always assumed hand drawn, as there was no production* reason to model the equipment, unless it was the basis of sprite sheet exports. But, now I wonder. Has it ever been discussed?

Fallout 1’s item icons are a masterclass in evocative aesthetics that reinforces the tone of the game world. ITS’s Colony Ship is probably the best successor to F1’s item icons, yet they are stylized stills taken from 3D renders.


edit: *because one reason to 3D model them, separate from production of the game, is workforce skill development. In one of Cain’s videos he mentioned how that master of business and industry Brian Fargo bought very expensive SGI 3D render workstations for Interplay and no one knew how to use them. I don’t remember the details, but in essence I think Leonard decided to sink weeks in the SGI cave with the manual and tutorials to try to leverage this capability, as it was the same hardware used for movie CGI in the 1994-95 time frame.

In that context, 3D models may have been skill-up exercises that doubled as a way to produce icons.

 

[std::namespace]

W
O
W
!
i never looked closely at the thing but its a "revolver" lolwtf with 12 rounds cap kek

 

[Serus]

That's right. In fact, if you think about it the only weapons that's looks genuinaly 50s retro-futuristic are the pulse rifle/pistol that only appears in FO2

IMO the Alien Blaster, Red Ryder BB gun (but that one is a "real world" one referring to this movie set in the 1940) and Plasma Rifle are the ones going for the retro 50s look, those are all FO1/Boyarsky (I think, did he have help on FO1 with this maybe?).

Stuff like the combat shotgun or flamer in particular look more as contemporary futurism to me (the 80s/early 90s robocop kind).

Alien blaster sure, very nice design and very 50s retro futuristic. But plasma rifle? Doesn't look that way to me, looks more generic/weird futuristic. The pulse weapons look much more 50s SF than plasma rifle, very cool. The RR BB gun - that's a joke, right? It isn't looking very futuristic at all, retro or not. Is this "Fallout 1 did everything better than Fallout 2" talking here?

 

[Surf Solar]

Does anyone know if F1 or F2 item icons are hand drawn, or renders from 3D models?

I always assumed hand drawn, as there was no production* reason to model the equipment, unless it was the basis of sprite sheet exports. But, now I wonder. Has it ever been discussed?

Fallout 1’s item icons are a masterclass in evocative aesthetics that reinforces the tone of the game world. ITS’s Colony Ship is probably the best successor to F1’s item icons, yet they are stylized stills taken from 3D renders.


edit: *because one reason to 3D model them, separate from production of the game, is workforce skill development. In one of Caine’s videos he mentioned how that master of business and industry Brian Fargo bought very expensive SGI 3D render workstations for Interplay and no one knew how to use them. I don’t remember the details, but in essence I think Leonard decided to sink weeks in the SGI cave with the manual and tutorials to try to leverage this capability, as it was the same hardware used for movie CGI in the 1994-95 time frame.

In that context, 3D models may have been skill-up exercises that doubled as a way to produce icons.

They are all 3d renders, touched in the 90ies equivalent of photoshop thereafter.
Fallout 2s renders just look different because of different team, art direction and less time for details.

 

[agris]

They are all 3d renders, touched in the 90ies equivalent of photoshop thereafter.
Fallout 2s renders just look different because of different team, art direction and less time for details

how can you be so sure? for me the lighting + perspective is what made me reconsider it. especially the lighting.

why do you think they modeled items for which they had no use for the 3D models?

 

[Surf Solar]

They are all 3d renders, touched in the 90ies equivalent of photoshop thereafter.
Fallout 2s renders just look different because of different team, art direction and less time for details

how can you be so sure? for me the lighting + perspective is what made me reconsider it. especially the lighting.

why do you think they modeled items for which they had no use for the 3D models?

I don't have concrete proof for the item sprites, but I do know for sure that the playermodel renders for the character and npcs were rushed.

I don't have access to the .gif database right now, but the difference in quality can be seen even in stills imo.


FO1:

Shit I can't find any gifs for FO2 characters, google is trash nowadays. New sprites were Vic, the Shi, the geckos, mantis etc. All of them lack frames in animations and don't look "quite right" compared to the FO1 models. They still did a mighty fine job releasing FO2 after FO1, so no complaints. Just trying to explain. Best example are the mobsters from FO2. They look like they came from a different game.

 

[agris]

but I do know for sure that the playermodel renders for the character and npcs were rushed.

I completely agree, although I think some here hold F2 in such high regard that they can’t accept it.

NecroLord , I think we briefly discussed the decline of F2 NPC sprites vs F1 in the past. I’m not trying to dunk on you - it’s great you engage with these old games - but Surf knows the OG Fallout art pipeline much better than me and is saying the same.

So much of F2 was a rush a job.

 

[None]

Does anyone know if F1 or F2 item icons are hand drawn, or renders from 3D models?

I always assumed hand drawn, as there was no production* reason to model the equipment, unless it was the basis of sprite sheet exports. But, now I wonder. Has it ever been discussed?

Fallout 1’s item icons are a masterclass in evocative aesthetics that reinforces the tone of the game world. ITS’s Colony Ship is probably the best successor to F1’s item icons, yet they are stylized stills taken from 3D renders.


edit: *because one reason to 3D model them, separate from production of the game, is workforce skill development. In one of Caine’s videos he mentioned how that master of business and industry Brian Fargo bought very expensive SGI 3D render workstations for Interplay and no one knew how to use them. I don’t remember the details, but in essence I think Leonard decided to sink weeks in the SGI cave with the manual and tutorials to try to leverage this capability, as it was the same hardware used for movie CGI in the 1994-95 time frame.

In that context, 3D models may have been skill-up exercises that doubled as a way to produce icons.

My understanding is that almost everything ingame started as a 3D model. While it may technically be easier to get sprites done when you know exactly what you want, I think the flexibility of 3D is what made it appealing. It's also easier to make models and have the renderer figure out the lighting. Reshaping and resizing is easier too.

It also could have been a bunch of young guys making decisions without regard to financial or practical concerns. Sometimes you advocate for new tech just so you can play with it.

 

[Pocgels]

I don't mind the "blockyness" of the laser weapons - creating a laser would not involve the same process as firing a bullet, so it's plausible they'd be different shapes as necessary. It looks a little goofy (plasma pistol would be where I draw the line into farce, personally) but part of what's unique about fallout is the way that people in that world look at what we consider ordinary without all the associations we've attached. The weird bars coming from the bottom of the grip and crop circle holes on in the rifle's stock are kind of stupid, though.

 

[deuxhero]

There's a talk by Tim Cain where he explicitly lists Fallout's influences. It wasn't just 1950s futurism, but 80s and early 90s b-movies with very distinct visuals that made up for their low budget (what we might call "pulp" of the era).

Personally I think the way to go for fictional Fallout guns is to pull from more 80s/90s pulp and blend it 50s elements, rather than exclusively start from 50s.

Give this a more weathered metal look and a wire stock and it would work fine as an energy weapon. (Really, I think the only reason Fist of the North Star wasn't a huge influence on Fallout is that it wasn't really a thing in the west at the time)

Also broaden the net on "1950s science fiction". It's not just Forbidden Planet and The Man from Planet X

Spoiler

(No, that's not a minigun but it is a good base for an energy heavy weapon)

Also plenty of non-US sci-fi of the era. Perhaps best reserved for things of foreign origin in-universe.

Spoiler

Play up Japan's 1950s and 1960s reputation for cheap but low quality products by including imported robots that have been warped by the "two hundred years of no maintence" thing more than most.

Look at Soviet sci-fi for a hint at Communist mindset of the era