Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Fallout 4 Pre-Release Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
It's like they made a current gen game that looks like it was downscaled for the PS3.

Or they primarily developed it as a last-gen game and then switched over 3/4 of the way through while bolting on slightly better lighting effects. This thing was in development for 7 years after all.



If anything it'll be TES VI that actually takes advantage of current gen consoles (such as they are) and gives their Frankenstein of an engine room to breathe. Problem is in 2-3 years time, about par for the Bethesda schedule, the industry standard will have advanced enough that they'll still be hopelessly out of date.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,973
Or they primarily developed it as a last-gen game and then switched over 3/4 of the way through while bolting on slightly better lighting effects. This thing was in development for 7 years after all.



If anything it'll be TES VI that actually takes advantage of current gen consoles (such as they are) and gives their Frankenstein of an engine more room to breathe. Problem is in 2-3 year time, about par for the Bethesda schedule, the industry standard will have advanced enough that they'll still be hopelessly out of date.

It has that "we had to sloppily downscale at the last moment" jank look to me. Textures/assets made from the beginning for old consoles tend to look alright, if not technically impressive. This just looks weirdly off.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
To be fair New Vegas tried to funnel you past Primm, Nipton and NoVac the same way. Oh, you want to go straight to New Vegas and catch that rat bastard Benny? You turned left after Goodsprings? Surprise, we've brought Deathclaws and Super Mutants for everyone!

No.

There were Cazadores as the Quarry Deathclaws could easily be avoided, no Super Muntants in that area, getting pass the Cazadores was the tricky part but entirely doable, of course getting to New Vegas so earlier was ENTIRELY POINTLESS.
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,743
The real question is why it took them 7 years to make a "new" game out of Fallout 3 mod kit and so poorly optimized.
 
Last edited:

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,852
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yeah, the blu area is the lowest in terms of mobs level.
But...shouldn't it be...linear?
I mean, it would be worst if you find 35 level mobs right outside the vault. Or am I missing something?
In Fallout New Vegas, my first death was to a Deathclaw I had somehow attracted at Goodsprings Cemetery. I fell in love with the game instantly. :D 35 level mobs right outside your door isn't necessarily bad.

BZ250ba.jpg


From the look of things, this is obviously not possible in Fallout 4. When Todd walks out of the Vault, there's not a Deathclaw in sight!

DX2s1rz.png


That's not really a complaint from me though. The way the zones are placed is a little unimaginative, especially the way the starting area is a safe, square-formed sandbox with only low-level enemies.

But at the end of the day it's a video game, and I'm just glad to see that there are encounter zones. From the looks of it, the coastline is a place of death where few dare tread. Maybe, among the Legendary Nuclear Ultra Deathclaws, there are some worthwhile loot to be found!??
If the Gods are just!
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
No.

There were Cazadores as the Quarry Deathclaws could easily be avoided, no Super Muntants in that area, getting pass the Cazadores was the tricky part but entirely doable, of course getting to New Vegas so earlier was ENTIRELY POINTLESS.

Never went near the Cazadore route past the tower because I considered them a bigger pain in the ass. Already said I took to hopping cliffs when stealth failed and one of those took me right past Neil's Shack and away from two Deathclaws that were looking for me. They got involved with the three mutant strong patrol nearby and I got to go ahead. I ended up on the cliff wall past Black Mountain but with NV glowing in the horizon, and I can tell you right now the Quarry Deathclaws tend to roam. I still had to sneak by four more wandering the area in front of the cliffs before I was home free. Glad it's easier for you.

Pointless? Didn't know, it was in the first couple months of playing the game and I always got distracted enough on the narrative path that I'd never been before. Still had fun looking around.


So, yes.
 

PhantasmaNL

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,657
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria
Yup another meme in the making. If i was planning to play fo4 i wouldnt mind the spoiler since i would not be playing for a surprise end of the game.

I do wonder how many possible players were mad cause of the spoilers or maybe the not that stellar gameplay from streams, and subsequently cancelled their preorder. These shenanigans may have been costly for beth.

I read that streams are being closed rapidly now (after the damage is done, lol) and on steam forum it is raining bans apparently.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
I do wonder how many possible players were mad cause of the spoilers or maybe the not that stellar gameplay from streams, and subsequently cancelled their preorder.


A number on NeoGaf, Steam, and others have started cancelling because the PS4 version is apparently rife with stutters and dips. Even when standing still and just looking around. Sony faithful just can't catch a break from Bethesda.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,973
A number on NeoGaf, Steam, and others have started cancelling because the PS4 version is apparently rife with stutters and dips. Even when standing still and just looking around. Sony faithful just can't catch a break from Bethesda.

This is Bethesda we're talking about. I wouldn't assume poor performance is exclusive to the PS4.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
Probably not, but the PS3 version of Skyrim is still considered to be the worst by far. And their Fallout 3 has issues crop up the longer you play it.
 

Anthedon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
4,795
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
The Fallout 4 Steam forum is pretty awesome, there's even a jihadist propaganda thread now. Kinda fits the theme.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,280
I found some fun reactions to the screens of the dialogue "system"

Somebody called Varnon_Broche thinks it's too complex to analyze until you've played it 7 times, what a good codexer:
"What's really "limiting" here though is your analysis of the games dialogue systems with one screenshot and four dialogue options."

This expert on dialogue, mr. Jobr321 says:
"Agree, people just can't accept change and are blinded by Nostalgia. The options in Fallout 3 and NV weren't that much different or more complex."


I made a joke that in the next TES game there will only be smilies in the dialogue but now I see that's already a meme floating around the net. I feel good about myself.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
I wonder how many of the reviews will pick up on the fact that Bethesda went from a game with shit choices / endings (Fallout 3), to a game with excellent choices / endings (New Vegas), to one with shit endings sgain (Fallout 4).

Probably zero.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,280
As I'm filling myself with hatred for newspapers Fallout 4, I come across more and more gems of brilliance, like this good chap here, explaining why all the animations on Gamebryo look like mocapped inhabitants of home for handicapped seniors:
In light of the recent launch trailer, and it's resulting debate about the animation quality in Fallout 4, I wanted to share what insight I can about why Bethesda typically doesn't use technologies like motion capture and other advanced animation techniques like performance capture for most of it's facial animation.

Typically, in motion/performance captured cutscenes, the game has a more complex and sophisticated 3d model of the character which is dropped in for when cutscenes occur. These high detail versions of the character have extra polygons, crease textures for wrinkles, more 'bones' in the animation rig for expression etc etc. To accomodate these computationally taxing 'actors', the cutscenes use clever camera angles and only render what is visible on screen. Nothing extra is being computed. So the geralt that rides around and slays Drowners, is not the same geralt that you see in conversations because all of the game's systems are suspended while a cutscene occurs.

Games today still use illusions and visual trickery to achieve amazing visuals, and in-engine cutscenes are a great way of doing it. You simply couldn't run high detail actors that exist in cutscenes, on top of all the other systems a game typically runs while in a playing state.

Fallout doesn't use cutscenes. Instead it chooses to create a world where everything happens right there, in real time. There's no breaking away into a separate instance of the game (unless you count caves etc), so the game is able to use that computational overhead for other things instead.

The animations so far in Bethesda games have been procedural. Similar to mass effect and dragon age (though those games have less dynamic things happening than fallout and can have slightly more detail in certain areas as a result), the actor's faces are given preset mouth shapes and an animator will use those mouth shapes to make a mouth movement mapping to match a given voice performance. This is why it can look awkward sometimes, because this mapping has to work regardless of the face shape a character is given, because again, everything happens in real time.

No matter how advanced a game engine is, today's hardware can't run complex performance capture performances in real time without sacrifices being made elsewhere, or at the least some sort of workaround (like a cutscene). That's just a reality of game development. It's why I am always really impressed with what Bethesda puts out, because ultimately when it comes to rich, fully formed, dynamic game worlds, they're badasses. What they pull off is actually very impressive technically.

That's not to say they don't use performance capture at all, in fact dogmeat is largely performance captured, as is a lot of the physical movement of NPCs, but those animations still have to work within a complex environment.

I realize that this has probably been explained many times before, and more eloquently, but hey, sometimes a guy's gotta ramble! Hoping this information was informative. :3
tldr: it's because the good guys at Bethsoft render all their amazing animations in real time instead of cheating like CD Projekt by using cutscenes and the technology isn't there yet to support animations in real-time
omfg

another /gaming citizen chimes in:
"The Witcher comparison is so spot on. If a character has to remove a hat or hood, the game always cuts away and then comes back to the character after the action was over; which undoubtedly means they just swapped in a different model.
Fallout is all real time so none of this is probable, which to me makes it that much crazier that they are able to accomplish so much on-screen at once. Great post!"

IT'S CRAZY THEY ACCOMPLISH SO MUCH!
NEXT MAYBE THEY'LL MANAGE TO MAKE A TRAIN THAT'S NOT A PERSON'S HAT!!! OH THOSE GENIUS MINDS AT BETHESDA!
I wonder how many of the reviews will pick up on the fact that Bethesda went from a game with shit choices / endings (Fallout 3), to a game with excellent choices / endings (New Vegas), to one with shit endings sgain (Fallout 4).

Probably zero.
I think some might but will present it as a minor inconvenience far outbalanced by an incredible voice acting and it will not affect the score in the slightest.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom