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Devil May Cry 5

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
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Lusitânia
I am getting raped by Mission 19 boss.
I didn't have this much trouble with Vergil's final fight in DMC3 (and that one was fucking hard). Specially after I discovered a strategy - use prop shredder to deflect his sword throw, use Beowulf's drop kick to stagger him or interrupt his combos, use stinger + DT when he is in DT, use dance macabre or quicksilver+beowulf charged attacks during his opennings.
But here, holy shit... It's like the devs injected him with motivational steroids because he's just relentless. I only gotten to the doppelganger part. I am still in my first playtough on DH. I am not using SDT tough, nor do I plan to.
 

Rivmusique

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Kangarooland
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
take off your nostalgia goggles if you think DMC3 is a better game than 5.
best character all the time instead of some of the time, decent difficulty from the start, far less "meh" bosses. Still only played DH difficulty of 5 and I'll definitely come back for other runs at higher difficulties as they unlock (indeed, the quick poke around SOS for three missions already seemed better) which may improve the boss experience, but the V sections will always drag and I quite like Nero but would prefer to play Dante full time. Also, I want my favourite rebellion + dual swords combo back. 5 has the advantage of not having 3's shitty platform/puzzle bits, I suppose.

Disagree about 3 having less "meh" bosses. 3 had, in order of shittiness, Arkham (terrible boss - just a mass of HP with like 3 attacks), centipede thing (easy and repeptitve), fish monster's organs (easy and repetitive), doppelganger (cool idea, but pretty boring fight cause of the boss's lackluster move pool and abusable AI), cerberus (chained to the wall so really easy to avoid and trivialize). On the other hand, the only bosses in 3 that I really liked were Vergil, Beowulf, Agni & Rudra and the horse. Others were merely decent.

Now In 5, I'm about halfway through and so far I didn't like the fight with the tentacle roots in the tutorial mission and 2 of V's bosses (the mounted knight, which is not even a bad boss, it's just that fighting him with V is not very interesting and Nidhogg, which is just bad in general) and I've really enjoyed the other bosses so far. The Urizen fights are great (fighting and beating him in the prologue with no upgrades was one of the most fun and challenging battles for me in the entire series, period), Cavaliere is great (reminds me of Credo in 4 and demonic Vergil in 1), Artemis was good (a much better version of THE SAVIOR IS COMING guy in 4) and Goliath was good (reminded me a lot of Beowful but with more variation between phases). The giant War of the Worlds walker was ok.

Also, so far 5 didn't have anything nearly as shitty as Arkham in 3.

I know I still have a lot of game to go and my opinions may change but I've heard people say that the best bosses in the game are all clustered in the last several missions so I'm optimistic.

All bosses in 5 bar the last ~3, Cav and the Urizen's were won by going full offence and making a small effort to get behind the boss when I could. In 3, that's what I would do on a first attempt, die, then get in to playing defensively and only acting after a well timed dodge when there was a window to safely do damage. Only one of those you named that I didn't like was the centipede. I think it might just be the DH default difficulty thing, and I do have hopes for a better time with the bosses when I do the higher ones. But I'm holding off playing it again for now, it's still an easy favourite game of mine and I want to extend its life a bit (I stopped SOS on a V mission so that's helping fight the "I'll just play one quick mission" urge I get), will probably go back to it at the end of the month after Sekiro.
 

TheHeroOfTime

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Don't judge DMC5 bosses until you've played in highest difficulties because they get new moves and skills against you, substantially improving the fights. Same goes with the normal enemies encounters, they're all redesigned (You can find a scarab queen on the prologue in the Son of sparda difficulty for example).
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
take off your nostalgia goggles if you think DMC3 is a better game than 5.
best character all the time instead of some of the time, decent difficulty from the start, far less "meh" bosses. Still only played DH difficulty of 5 and I'll definitely come back for other runs at higher difficulties as they unlock (indeed, the quick poke around SOS for three missions already seemed better) which may improve the boss experience, but the V sections will always drag and I quite like Nero but would prefer to play Dante full time. Also, I want my favourite rebellion + dual swords combo back. 5 has the advantage of not having 3's shitty platform/puzzle bits, I suppose.

Disagree about 3 having less "meh" bosses. 3 had, in order of shittiness, Arkham (terrible boss - just a mass of HP with like 3 attacks), centipede thing (easy and repeptitve), fish monster's organs (easy and repetitive), doppelganger (cool idea, but pretty boring fight cause of the boss's lackluster move pool and abusable AI), cerberus (chained to the wall so really easy to avoid and trivialize). On the other hand, the only bosses in 3 that I really liked were Vergil, Beowulf, Agni & Rudra and the horse. Others were merely decent.

Now In 5, I'm about halfway through and so far I didn't like the fight with the tentacle roots in the tutorial mission and 2 of V's bosses (the mounted knight, which is not even a bad boss, it's just that fighting him with V is not very interesting and Nidhogg, which is just bad in general) and I've really enjoyed the other bosses so far. The Urizen fights are great (fighting and beating him in the prologue with no upgrades was one of the most fun and challenging battles for me in the entire series, period), Cavaliere is great (reminds me of Credo in 4 and demonic Vergil in 1), Artemis was good (a much better version of THE SAVIOR IS COMING guy in 4) and Goliath was good (reminded me a lot of Beowful but with more variation between phases). The giant War of the Worlds walker was ok.

Also, so far 5 didn't have anything nearly as shitty as Arkham in 3.

I know I still have a lot of game to go and my opinions may change but I've heard people say that the best bosses in the game are all clustered in the last several missions so I'm optimistic.

All bosses in 5 bar the last ~3, Cav and the Urizen's were won by going full offence and making a small effort to get behind the boss when I could. In 3, that's what I would do on a first attempt, die, then get in to playing defensively and only acting after a well timed dodge when there was a window to safely do damage. Only one of those you named that I didn't like was the centipede. I think it might just be the DH default difficulty thing, and I do have hopes for a better time with the bosses when I do the higher ones. But I'm holding off playing it again for now, it's still an easy favourite game of mine and I want to extend its life a bit (I stopped SOS on a V mission so that's helping fight the "I'll just play one quick mission" urge I get), will probably go back to it at the end of the month after Sekiro.

Before playing 5 I played all the other games in the series. The last time I played 3 was like 10 years ago so I don't know how much my previously acquired skills helped in my current playthrough, but the only bosses I died on were Vergil (2-3 times in each battle) and Arkham (died once, used gold orb because I couldn't be arsed to replay that fight, I really don't like it). The way you describe fighting DMC 5 bosses (going full offense) worked for me in 3 just as well. For example, in the Agni & Rudra fight I just attacked them non stop, which resulted in me frequently knocking their weapons out of their hands and stunning them.

I don't know how it's like on Devil Hunter (as I mentioned, I skipped DH entirely by killing Urizen in the prologue and went into SoS blind), but on Son of Sparda, going full offense doesn't really work. For example, Goliath attacks constantly in melee and for how early in the game you fight him 3-4 hits is enough to kill you, so I had to move all the time when fighting him, barely staying in one place, move away from his AOE fire explosion and ground slams, etc. Artemis does a scream attack if you stay near her for too long (a bit more than 1 basic combo) which does like 30% of your health in damage and knocks you far away. It also has a pretty fast wind up time so I had to remember to fuck off as soon as I finished a combo + there's a lot more going on in that fight that can kill you.

I wouldn't say the bosses are difficult on SoS (I think they're on the level of normal in DMC 3, maybe a bit harder) but they definitely require me to do more than just DPS and it feels rewarding beating them.
 

Cromwell

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Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
ck! PC gamers are fckn story fags and presentation fags. The review basically said DmC is better and the comment section seems to agree.

IF you were a storyfag you would hate dmc. Devil May Cry 1-5 may have simple stories but these games are stylish fun and entertaining. DMC is shit even from a storyfag perspective since the story is "bankers are evil and anonymous will save us by the use of twitter, and also swearing is very cool." its cringey to the max and offensively retarded.
 

Dedicated_Dark

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Beyond the Grave
I was wondering where all the RESETERA Cancer went. But, no worries. Found it.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ca...f-transphobia-racism-and-antisemitism.105965/

Capcom is racist. Lol they fcked up when they turned Morrison black to appease the SJWs.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/re...o-and-black-lives-matter-goes-too-far.106010/

Ruben is victim blaming racist some shit!

^Those are some nice clickbaity titles. And people in the thread are going to boycott the games. I wonder if mainstream News site will start writing all this shit. Cause I would like to point out DmC had a lot of shit these people willingly ignored.

They do have awesome gifs but.



 
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Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
Would be cool if they gave Vergil his own little DLC campaign with unique content instead of just "play through the normal campaign but you're vergil now" like they usually do. Or even better, do both.
 

Dedicated_Dark

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Beyond the Grave
https://www.spieltimes.com/news/cap...te-actor-to-play-morrison-in-devil-may-cry-5/

Kekekeke! It's coming. The article has been removed but the link does not lie.

ZPErj13.png


Wonder why they removed it! Love the fact the actor became a bigot so fast.
 

Mikeal

Arcane
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
3,577
Location
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
I was wondering where all the RESETERA Cancer went. But, no worries. Found it.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ca...f-transphobia-racism-and-antisemitism.105965/

Capcom is racist. Lol they fcked up when they turned Morrison black to appease the SJWs.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/re...o-and-black-lives-matter-goes-too-far.106010/

Ruben is victim blaming racist some shit!

^Those are some nice clickbaity titles. And people in the thread are going to boycott the games. I wonder if mainstream News site will start writing all this shit. Cause I would like to point out DmC had a lot of shit these people willingly ignored.

They do have awesome gifs but.





Reuben Langdon is based AF. Dunno why but suddenly I've got crazy little desire to create account there and start trollin'em.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,869
Apparently they made Morrison black because of some copyright bullshit regarding character designs from the anime, is there any source to this?
 

DJOGamer PT

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
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Location
Lusitânia
Finally beat Vergil Sunday. He gave me much more trouble here than in 3.
I am ashamed to admit but I used a Gold Orb. Still it felt so good beating him. :mixedemotions:

Alright I'll do a try to do a review of the game, as smallest as I can. I'll also compare it to other entries in the series, specially 1 and 3 because I beat those 2 in 5's launch week. So I got those 2 still fresh in my memory.

Spoilary TL;DR incoming:
Starting with the no-brainer:

+++The combat.
Everyone already knows Nero is vastly improved, but I am still surprised how they managed to even improve Dante considering his gameplay in 3/4 was already impressive to say the least. Nero now is an extremely versatile character and Dante peaked (there's no way to improve his character even more, unless they bring back the Darkslayer, Quicksilver and Doppelganger style)
I know some of you don't like V, but honestly he's a nice addition to the series. Like I stated in one of my earlier posts, once you internalize his approach to combat is entirely different than Dante/Nero and get hold of the ropes and some more moves he is fun to play with. He has enough depth to to be worthy of inclusion and changes the game's pacing. When playing him I recommend you don't play it safe but rather try to be as close as possible, use the book and taunts as well (he has the longest taunts, which helps performing the combos since he remains stationary). Although V could use more cane attacks.
Still if you don't like him, he still only has 4 mandatory missions and they're amongst the shortest ones.

+++Enemy design.
In my playtrough of the other games I found 4 enemies lacking (except for the Angelos); 1 is funny because every enemy in 1 has both melee and ranged attacks - I think this is due to memory limitations, because also in 1 you'll always encounter only one type of enemy in each area/room (so they probably had to make every enemy as dangerous as possible); in 3 the enemy design vastly improved over 1 (and it's still better than 4) as enemies now had more unique moves and properties.
But I believe 5 has now become the best in the series, since it's a straight improvement to 3.
Like in 3 the enemy rooster is diverse, every enemy is distinct from one another and every enemy has a different strategy to be defeated. Unlike 3 there are more unique types of enemies that the series still hadn't played with (the green empusas are a good example of this among others). There's more enemies on screen and of different types. Enemies have even more ways to punish the player (the Empusa Queen will become stronger the more damage she does to the player). And the enemy placement complements their weakness. Even looking at the few enemies from the other games they brought back (like the scissors, riots, hells) are much better designed and all possess new tricks up their sleeves.
And I could make a way longer post only about this aspect so let's move on.
Gunslinger style has improved. However Royal Guard was perhaps too buffed.

+++Bosses.
I also find 5 the game in the series with the most quantity of good boss fights.
I wouldn't consider any of DMC1 the best mainly because of the game's undeveloped combat compared to it's sequels. But still, Nero Angelo and Griffin are fun and challenging to fight (although both their 2nd fights feel like filler and it's respective arena are pretty shitty). Phantom is a nice first boss but there was no need for a 2nd encounter. Nightmare is garbage. Mundus was ok, but for the last boss that just doesn't cut it.
DMC4, Berial was very good as a first boss (if we don't count Urizen as a 1st bosst then Berial wins that title) but not good enough to be fought 2 more times. The frog sucked, he wasn't all that interesting or challenging but my main gripe with him is that every time I started to damage him, he would do his retreat and spend so much fucking time hidden away (there was a time where I had to wait almost 4 damn minutes before he showed up and barely 1 minute after that he disappeared again, fuck him). Echidna was a nice fight but like Berial not good enough to make you want to repeat it. The truly good Bosses of 4 were Dante, Agnus and Credo. Fuck Sanctus and really fuck the Savior.
Now DMC3. I know this is the one most people enjoy, and while it really is better than all other games (because it has the least amount of bad bosses), 3 still has some mediocre ones. The centipede was snore, the beast's heart was a chore, Nevan was a whore and not a bad one. The shadow was trivial and wasted opportunity (could've done something like in OoT with Dark Link). The time horse was mediocre, just climb the chariot, hit it, climb down before he enters the portal, rinse repeat. Arkham was just fucking horrible, he just feels like the annoyance you must defeat before Vergil, and like the shadow a wasted opportunity since they tease us with Sparda's form. Jester was also an annoyance but not an entirely bad one (and he's optional, except for the first fight). Lady was nice but not particularly challenging. Cerberus is ok. Agni & Rudra, Beowulf and Vergil are what truly save this game in Bosses.
DMC5 on the other hand, has no bad Boss fights. That alone makes it the best. The house plant was meh but it's just a tutorial boss (it's a shame they didn't include it as a regular enemy trough out the game tough). The fact you can kill Urizen right in the prologue is awesome, and he's not unfairly difficult. Goliath is a better version of Beowulf. Artemis is a good version of Sanctus. Nidhogg is not particularly challenging in DH (but that changes in the higher difficulties). The time horse here is much better. Gilgamesh was ok. Cavaliere Angelo is great. So is Urizen's final form. As well as King Cerberus. And Malphas. And Vergil is so much better here. Griffon, Shadow and Nightmare are also fun to fight because they combine so well.

Also enemies and bosses have different attacks on the higher difficulties (and are more aggressive). In the other games they only had larger health pools and damage output, plus Devil Trigger.

+++ Weapons
This one is pretty obvious. No other game in the series give us a fucking motorcycle or the ability to ride a rocket.
The devil breakers are all incredible to use, and all have pretty unique functions that don't make any of them useless (except for the buster arm once you gain DT).
Balrog is an amalgamation of all other punch/kick weapons and a absolute improvement over them as well. Cerberus takes a good weapon and makes it great. I would like to know how they've come up with the idea for Cavaleire, since it's just plain awesome (and it gives a bit of hyper armor). Dante Sword is overwhelming at first, but that's only because it's just so damn versetile.
The guns are also the best so far. The Faust Hat is specially interesting despite being a bit tricky to use.
And the ultimate reason why I think Dante's weapon are the best here is because I don't any miss of the other games Devil Arms (except for Lucifer and Pandora).
My only nitpick with the weapons is that the Sparda is just a reskin of the Rebelion (I don't yet know if it more damage). They should've done something with it's transforming ability.

++ Visuals
Yes the game looks impressive.
The weapons and enemies also look good. And the animations are so detailed they managed to somehow make a dude getting higher up the air because he attacked swung his sword, somehow look believable.
The effects in moments like the Goliath and Cavaliere fights are impressive and complement really well.
But I also enjoyed the location aesthetics of this game. Every keeps saying this game is bland location wise, but this title is the most diverse in terms of locations. There's a european city with various architectural styles, library, gothic church, hotel, train station, sewers, some parts of the city are sunken, a moving theater, a cemetery plus catacombs, Dante's mansion, and the demon has IMO a pretty cool design.
The color palette however are is bit weird. Some times the game is really colorful and vibrant, others is a bit dull and monochromatic.

++ Optimization
It's also amazing how well the game runs despite the how good it looks.
I mean take KCD, even after a whole year I can barely run the game at 60 without dropping settings to Low and resolution to 720p. Here as long as I don't have Texture Scaling to 200% I can have everything on Ultra at 1080p and game will still stay in 60fps mark.
The KB + M is also surprisingly comfy to play with.
The only nitpick I have is that the loading screens a bit too frequent (but fortunately they are very short).

++ Cameo System
This is a good idea, and works really well.
And the best thing is if you want to play solo this shit still allows it (it's pretty cool to see a recording of you playing a mission with another character).
Still yesterday I played mission 13 with a friend and it was just so fun. It got to a part that it started to look like a Michael bay movie with all the explosions and shit flying around.
The only downside is how little it's used. They should use more of this in future content.

+ Void
There isn't much to elaborate on about this one other than the fact it's pretty useful and a welcome addition.

+ Levels
I don't think they are as bad as in 4 or as bland as everyone keeps saying. And I do think people are overestimating 3 quality on that front, but more of that later.
For starters I think all the criticism DMC4 had to it's level design, affected this game's development. So in response they caved in to what most people asked and gave us a game without unnecessary filler and more action.
Still for the most part, the levels have a nice quantity of secret areas and content. So I think when people say the game is to linear, they haven't explored it well enough. For example in mission 11 I found a hidden apartment with a Kalina Ann on it.
And sure some levels are a bit to linear for their own good, but there are others compensate for them (like mission 12 + 15).
The levels in 3 definitely tried to be more like 1, but unfortunately they failed. As 3 is actually a fairly linear experience. Sure it isn't as linear as 5, but hear me out.
What 3 does well is give us the impression the level is more complicated than it seems. For example when you enter the tower, you have all those floors with a significant amount of doors. Only most those doors are locked, and only like 2 are accessible. One leads to a dead-end the other to a key. What I am trying to say is that despite the apparent non-linearity of DMC3 levels, it still leads you through those levels in pretty straight forward manner. The only way you could lose yourself in 3 is if you either don't play the game for quite some time that you don't remember where you left of, or if you're an idiot.
And that's only during the tower, after the first fight with Vergil the game becames as linear as 5 is. DMC1 is only game in the series that is truly non-linear in this regard (due to it's roots as a RE game).
Sure again 3 is much less linear 5, but I think 5 is not as bland as everyone keeps saying, as it still possess a good amount of side and hidden content.
But yeah, 5 is not winning any awards for this, but the point is the levels are not bad.

+/- Music
This one was unfortunately a mixed bag.
On one hand hand you have OST like Devil Trigger, V's theme, Cavaliere Angelo, Nico's theme and some others (surprised Dante's theme works so well in game). And while you say these OST are trash, they are Metal Gear Rising tier trash - as in they work perfectly well with the action that happening on screen, get you hyped and are memorable.
On the other hand, the rest of the Soundtrack just misses the mark.
I also think the dynamic soundtrack seems to enhance this problem.
Plus after Mission 12, it seems the best themes just disappear.

+/- Story
Everyone knows DMC games are not something to be taken seriously as they serve only as the explanation for the events and to be entertaining. And while I am no story fag I did find 5 story entertaining enough.
3 is still the best one in this regard but 5 is close 2nd. I think the ending was a rather nice conclusion to the whole thing.
The reason why is better is because the game has a smaller cast of central characters. That just wasn't possible in 5 considering it had to be the end of the Sons of Sparda (the same reason why Vergil had to be here).
I would say that 5 is biggest problem with it's plot is really that fact it had to be the end to saga. And as such it had a whole lot pieces that it had to somehow make fit all together.
For example, I've read in the gallery, that the demon tree was an event that happens every millennia. That changed everything because that not only means Vergil wasn't directly responsible for the tree, but the most other demons (like Goliath) were all chasing after the fruit. But having to explain all these shit would mean most cutscenes would be about exposition than anything else.
Vergil's character change isn't all that weird considering a lot of that development came down from his time as V.
Nero's DT also made alot of sense. As Dante as been saying throughout the games humans possess humanity which makes them "stronger" than demons, and Trish stated demon power comes from human blood. Nero is more human than both Vergil and Dante, not because is a quarter demon, but because unlike the other 2, who unlock more power due to their desire to fight, Nero unlocks is power from a desire to protect.
Another problem was the fact, there wasn't a whole lot of build up to that climatic end fight. I think the game would've benefited from a secondary antagonist, like Mundus (they could've use that Malphas demon a sort of agent). That way they could build up the final fight and at the same time give more interactions between the descendants of Sparda.

- Not being able to play any mission with any character after the end game
Says it all.
However there already exists a mod that fixes this.

- No retry
This is really a nitpick, but at the end of a Mission you're not given a retry button.
So if you want to replay said level, you have to go back to the main menu a and select the mission. Which in this game means you'll be dealing with around 4 loading screens.

- Devil Hunter difficulty
The DH difficulty is indeed a more easy than in past entries because the regular enemies are not as aggressive, and the earlier bosses don't deal much damage.
I know the series has never done this but Son of Sparda could've been available from the start.
This just isn't the worst aspect of the game, since it lets you unlock all difficulties from the get go.

- Mission 10
The first mission you play with Dante. It's problem (asides from being on of the most linear levels) is that you have to fight Urizen. At this point in the story it's impossible to defeat Urizen (because if could you make a time paradox). So this fight is just pointless (as well as the Urizen fight in Mission 8).
Apparently in the weapons section of the gallery, Dante got the Balrog fist weapon from a demon rigth before/after he entered the Demon tree. The boss of that Mission should have been that Demon.

- Pacing and Length
This already been said in this thread, but the progression with Dante feels just to fast. Mission 12 is a good example, you start with the motrocycle, a weapon with a good amount of depth, then right before the boss you get the SDT, and after the boss you get Faust Hat. In the space of 30 minutes you get 3 major updates to character's arsenal. Not enough time to learn how to use them properly. Even by the end of the game you are still learning new shit.
I think the game would've benefited a lot from some 5 well done more missions.

- Sin Devil Trigger
Only gripe I have with Dante.
While sure you need a whole of DT to be able to use the SDT. Other than that I don't see any other downside to using it.
And when Dante is in SDT, he's just so damn OP. Wasn't regular DT enough?
My opinion on this one might change, with a few more testing and playing in the highest difficulties. But for now I think it was unnecessary.

- - Revive system
This was the biggest offender for me.
While the game doesn't have Vital Stars replacing them with the possibility of buying a health pack upon death is a far worse way to deal with this aspect. Since with the Vital Stars at least you had a sort of item management, as the items got more and more expensive and you had to use them before you died.
Also the game as at least 1 gold in every level (except for the boss levels and prologue), plus with the cameo system, getting a hold of these items is no way as difficult as in other titles.


All things considering, the Pros far outweigh the Cons and the game get super right the most important aspects of this type of game (gameplay, enemy design and fun setpieces).
I would rank the franchise in the following way:
5 > 3 = 1 > 4 > 2

TL;DR:

:5/5::4/5:

Whatever you think is the best game in the series, 5 is a worthy inclusion. And undeniably an excellent Action game that was made with dedication and motivation.
Now we shall see how the additional content will affect the game's quality.
 
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DJOGamer PT

Arcane
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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
A leak of the bloody palace. I think this has found on the game's files.

Also considering the games end, if they make a Vergil campaign DLC, I am sure it will be set in the Underworld trying to cut down the tree - if we're lucky it will have Co-Op and perhaps a Dante boss fight. And we'll probably get a playable Lady and Trish.

Hopefully they will also bring Turbo Mode and Legendary Dark Knigth.
 
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Rivmusique

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
3,489
Location
Kangarooland
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Patch Yellow mode in.

Also, should you not be spoilering
Vergil
?

I guess if someone really cared they wouldn't be checking threads, but it's not been out that long.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
Finally beat Vergil Sunday. He gave me much more trouble here than in 3.
I am ashamed to admit but I used a Gold Orb. Still it felt so good beating him. :mixedemotions:

Alright I'll do a try to do a review of the game, as smallest as I can. I'll also compare it to other entries in the series, specially 1 and 3 because I beat those 2 in 5's launch week. So I got those 2 still fresh in my memory.

Spoilary TL;DR incoming:
Starting with the no-brainer:

+++The combat.
Everyone already knows Nero is vastly improved, but I am still surprised how they managed to even improve Dante considering his gameplay in 3/4 was already impressive to say the least. Nero now is an extremely versatile character and Dante peaked (there's no way to improve his character even more, unless they bring back the Darkslayer, Quicksilver and Doppelganger style)
I know some of you don't like V, but honestly he's a nice addition to the series. Like I stated in one of my earlier posts, once you internalize his approach to combat in entirely different than Dante/Nero and get hold of the ropes and some more moves he is fun to play with. He has enough depth to to be worthy of inclusion and changes the game's pacing. When playing him I recommend you don't play it safe but rather try to be as close as possible, use the book and taunts as well (he has the longest taunts, which helps performing the combos since he remains stationary). Although V could use more cane attacks.
Still if you don't like him, he still only has 4 mandatory missions and they're the shortest ones (excluding the boss missions).

+++Enemy design.
In my playtrough of the other games I found 4 enemies lacking (except for the Angelos); 1 is funny because every enemy in 1 has both melee and ranged attacks - I think this is due to memory limitations, because also in 1 you'll always encounter only one type of enemy in each area/room (so they probably had to make every enemy as dangerous as possible); in 3 the enemy design vastly improved over 1 (and it's still better than 4) as enemies now had more unique moves and properties.
But I believe 5 has now become the best in the series, since it's a straight improvement to 3.
Like in 3 the enemy rooster is diverse, every enemy is distinct from one another and every enemy has a different strategy to be defeated. Unlike 3 there are more unique types of enemies that the series still hadn't played with (the green empusas are a good example of this among others). There's more enemies on screen and of different types. Enemies have even more ways to punish the player (the Empusa Queen will become stronger the more damage she does to the player). And the enemy placement complements their weakness. Even looking at the few enemies from the other games they brought back (like the scissors, riots, hells) are much better designed and all possess new tricks up their sleeves.
And I could make a way longer post only about this aspect so let's move on.
Gunslinger style has improved. However Royal Guard was perhaps too buffed.

+++Bosses.
I also find 5 the game in the series with the most quantity of good boss fights.
I wouldn't consider any of DMC1 the best mainly because of the game's undeveloped combat compared to it's sequels. But still, Nero Angelo and Griffin are fun and challenging to fight (although both their 2nd fights feel like filler and it's respective arena are pretty shitty). Phantom is a nice first boss but there was no need for a 2nd encounter. Nightmare is garbage. Mundus was ok, but for the last boss that just doesn't cut it.
DMC4, Berial was very good as a first boss (if we don't count Urizen as a 1st bosst then Berial wins that title) but not good enough to be fought 2 more times. The frog sucked, he wasn't all that interesting or challenging but my main gripe with him is that every time I started to damage him, he would do his retreat and spend so much fucking time hidden away (there was a time where I had to wait almost 4 damn minutes before he showed up and barely 1 minute after that he disappeared again, fuck him). Echidna was a nice fight but like Berial not good enough to make you want to repeat it. The truly good Bosses of 4 were Dante, Agnus and Credo. Fuck Sanctus and really fuck the Savior.
Now DMC3. I know this is the one most people enjoy, and while it really is better than all other games (because it has the least amount of bad bosses), 3 still has some mediocre ones. The centipede was snore, the beast's heart was a chore, Nevan was a whore and not a bad one. The shadow was trivial and wasted opportunity (could've done something like in OoT with Dark Link). The time horse was mediocre, just climb the chariot, hit it, climb down before he enters the portal, rinse repeat. Arkham was just fucking horrible, he just feels like the annoyance you must defeat before Vergil, and like the shadow a wasted opportunity since they tease us with Sparda's form. Jester was also an annoyance but not an entirely bad one (and he's optional, except for the first fight). Lady was nice but not particularly challenging. Cerberus is ok. Agni & Rudra, Beowulf and Vergil are what truly save this game in Bosses.
DMC5 on the other hand, has no bad Boss fights. That alone makes it the best. The house plant was meh but it's just a tutorial boss (it's a shame they didn't include it as a regular enemy trough out the game tough). The fact you can kill Urizen right in the prologue is awesome, and he's not unfairly difficult. Goliath is a better version of Beowulf. Artemis is a good version of Sanctus. Nidhogg is not particularly challenging in DH (but that changes in the higher difficulties). The time horse here is much better. Gilgamesh was ok. Cavaliere Angelo is great. So is Urizen's final form. As well as King Cerberus. And Malphas. And Vergil is so much better here. Griffon, Shadow and Nightmare are also fun to fight because they combine so well.

Also enemies and bosses have different attacks on the higher difficulties (and are more aggressive). In the other games they only had larger health pools and damage output, plus Devil Trigger.

+++ Weapons
This one is pretty obvious. No other game in the series give us a fucking motorcycle or the ability to ride a rocket.
The devil breakers are all incredible to use, and all have pretty unique functions that don't make any of them useless (except for the buster arm once you gain DT).
Balrog is an amalgamation of all other punch/kick weapons and a absolute improvement over them as well. Cerberus takes a good weapon and makes it great. I would like to know how they've come up with the idea for Cavaleire, since it's just plain awesome (and it gives a bit of hyper armor). Dante Sword is overwhelming at first, but that's only because it's just so damn versetile.
The guns are also the best so far. The Faust Hat is specially interesting despite being a bit tricky to use.
And the ultimate reason why I think Dante's weapon are the best here is because I don't any miss of the other games Devil Arms (except for Lucifer and Pandora).
My only nitpick with the weapons is that the Sparda is just a reskin of the Rebelion (I don't yet know if it more damage). They should've done something with it's transforming ability.

++ Visuals
Yes the game looks impressive.
The weapons and enemies also look good. And the animations are so detailed they managed to somehow make a dude getting higher up the air because he attacked swung his sword, somehow look believable.
The effects in moments like the Goliath and Cavaliere fights are impressive and complement really well.
But I also enjoyed the location aesthetics of this game. Every keeps saying this game is bland location wise, but this title is the most diverse in terms of locations. There's a european city with various architectural styles, library, gothic church, hotel, train station, sewers, some parts of the city are sunken, a moving theater, a cemetery plus catacombs, Dante's mansion, and the demon has IMO a pretty cool design.
The color palette however are is bit weird. Some times the game is really colorful and vibrant, others is a bit dull and monochromatic.

++ Optimization
It's also amazing how well the game runs despite the how good it looks.
I mean take KCD, even after a whole year I can barely run the game at 60 without dropping settings to Low and resolution to 720p. Here as long as I don't have Texture Scaling to 200% I can have everything on Ultra at 1080p and game will still stay in 60fps mark.
The KB + M is also surprisingly comfy to play with.
The only nitpick I have is that the loading screens a bit too frequent (but fortunately they are very short).

++ Cameo System
This is a good idea, and works really well.
And the best thing is if you want to play solo this shit still allows it (it's pretty cool to see a recording of you playing a mission with another character).
Still yesterday I played mission 13 with a friend and it was just so fun. It got to a part that it started to look like a Michael bay movie with all the explosions and shit flying around.
The only downside is how little it's used. They should use more of this in future content.

+ Void
There isn't much to elaborate on about this one other than the fact it's pretty useful and a welcome addition.

+ Levels
I don't think they are as bad as in 4 or as bland as everyone keeps saying. And I do think people are overestimating 3 quality on that front, but more of that later.
For starters I think all the criticism DMC4 had to it's level design, affected this game's development. So in response they caved in to what most people asked and gave us a game without unnecessary filler and more action.
Still for the most part, the levels have a nice quantity of secret areas and content. So I think when people say the game is to linear, they haven't explored it well enough. For example in mission 11 I found a hidden apartment with a Kalina Ann on it.
And sure some levels are a bit to linear for their own good, but there are others compensate for them (like mission 12 + 15).
The levels in 3 definitely tried to be more like 1, but unfortunately they failed. As 3 is actually a fairly linear experience. Sure it isn't as linear as 5, but hear me out.
What 3 does well is give us the impression the level is more complicated than it seems. For example when you enter the tower, you have all those floors with a significant amount of doors. Only most those doors are locked, and only like 2 are accessible. One leads to a dead-end the other to a key. What I am trying to say is that despite the apparent non-linearity of DMC3 levels, it still leads you through those levels in pretty straight forward manner. The only way you could lose yourself in 3 is if you either don't play the game for quite some time that you don't remember where you left of, or if you're an idiot.
And that's only during the tower, after the first fight with Vergil the game becames as linear as 5 is. DMC1 is only game in the series that is truly non-linear in this regard (due to it's roots as a RE game).
Sure again 3 is much less linear 5, but I think 5 is not as bland as everyone keeps saying, as it still possess a good amount of side and hidden content.
But yeah, 5 is not winning any awards for this, but the point is the levels are not bad.

+/- Music
This one was unfortunately a mixed bag.
On one hand hand you have OST like Devil Trigger, V's theme, Cavaliere Angelo, Nico's theme and some others (surprised Dante's theme works so well in game). And while you say these OST are trash, they are Metal Gear Rising tier trash - as in they work perfectly well with the action that happening on screen, get you hyped and are memorable.
On the other hand, the rest of the Soundtrack just misses the mark.
I also think the dynamic soundtrack seems to enhance this problem.
Plus after Mission 12, it seems the best themes just disappear.

+/- Story
Everyone knows DMC games are not something to be taken seriously as they serve only as the explanation for the events and to be entertaining. And while I am no story fag I did find 5 story entertaining enough.
3 is still the best one in this regard but 5 is close 2nd. I think the ending was a rather nice conclusion to the whole thing.
The reason why is better is because the game has a smaller cast of central characters. That just wasn't possible in 5 considering it had to be the end of the Sons of Sparda (the same reason why Vergil had to be here).
I would say that 5 is biggest problem with it's plot is really that fact it had to be the end to saga. And as such it had a whole lot pieces that it had to somehow make fit all together.
For example, I've read in the gallery, that the demon tree was an event that happens every millennia. That changed everything because that not only means Vergil wasn't directly responsible for the tree, but the most other demons (like Goliath) were all chasing after the fruit. But having to explain all these shit would mean most cutscenes would be about exposition than anything else.
Vergil's character change isn't all that weird considering a lot of that development came down from his time as V.
Nero's DT also made alot of sense. As Dante as been saying throughout the games humans possess humanity which makes them "stronger" than demons, and Trish stated demon power comes from human blood. Nero is more human than both Vergil and Dante, not because is a quarter demon, but because unlike the other 2, who unlock more power due to their desire to fight, Nero unlocks is power from a desire to protect.
Another problem was the fact, there wasn't a whole lot of build up to that climatic end fight. I think the game would've benefited from a secondary antagonist, like Mundus (they could've use that Malphas demon a sort of agent). That way they could build up the final fight and at the same time give more interactions between the descendants of Sparda.

- Not being able to play any mission with any character after the end game
Says it all.
However there already exists a mod that fixes this.

- Devil Hunter difficulty
The DH difficulty is indeed a more easy than in past entries because the regular enemies are not as aggressive, and the earlier bosses don't deal much damage.
I know the series has never done this but Son of Sparda could've been available from the start.
This just isn't the worst aspect of the game, since it lets you unlock all difficulties from the get go.

- Mission 10
The first mission you play with Dante. It's problem (asides from being on of the most linear levels) is that you have to fight Urizen. At this point in the story it's impossible to defeat Urizen (because if could you make a time paradox). So this fight is just pointless (as well as the Urizen fight in Mission 8).
Apparently in the weapons section of the gallery, Dante got the Balrog fist weapon from a demon rigth before/after he entered the Demon tree. The boss of that Mission should have been that Demon.

- Pacing and Length
This already been said in this thread, but the progression with Dante feels just to fast. Mission 12 is a good example, you start with the motrocycle, a weapon with a good amount of depth, then right before the boss you get the SDT, and after the boss you get Faust Hat. In the space of 30 minutes you get 3 major updates to character's arsenal. Not enough time to learn how to use them properly. Even by the end of the game you are still learning new shit.
I think the game would've benefited a lot from some 5 well done more missions.

- Sin Devil Trigger
Only gripe I have with Dante.
While sure you need a whole of DT to be able to use the SDT. Other than that I don't see any other downside to using it.
And when Dante is in SDT, he's just so damn OP. Wasn't regular DT enough?
My opinion on this one might change, with a few more testing and playing in the highest difficulties. But for now I think it was unnecessary.

- - Revive system
This was the biggest offender for me.
While the game doesn't have Vital Stars replacing them with the possibility of buying a health pack upon death is a far worse way to deal with this aspect. Since with the Vital Stars at least you had a sort of item management, as the items got more and more expensive and you had to use them before you died.
Also the game as at least 1 gold in every level (except for the boss levels and prologue), plus with the cameo system, getting a hold of these items is no way as difficult as in other titles.


All things considering, the Pros far outweigh the Cons and the game get super right the most important aspects of this type of game (gameplay, enemy design and fun setpieces).
I would rank the franchise in the following way:
5 > 3 = 1 > 4 > 2

TL;DR:

:5/5::4/5:

Whatever you think is the best game in the series, 5 is a worthy inclusion. And undeniably an excellent Action game that was made with dedication and motivation.
Now we shall see how the additional content will affect the game's quality.

There's a cheevo for beating Vergil with Dante + Nero without using yellow orbs, if you care for that kind of stuff. Not sure if restarts count though.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,869


How the fuck does this game have nearly 5 hours of music in it? I mean there's like 4 different versions of some songs, but still.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
Looks like there is a significant difficulty spike for the last 1/4 of the game. Died a bunch of times on the undercooked KFC abomination and Urizen's final form. Started dying in combat vs. regular enemies (something that never happened to me before this point) - it turns out fighting 4 of those multi-armed eyeball throwing prosper monsters and an upgraded goat wizard in a small room is pretty hard.

Now fighting
Vergil
and he's pretty damn hard. Been at him for an hour or so with no success but I got close once.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
Man, i must be good as shit because I beat Vergil after 3 tries and Urizen first time on Devil Hunter. All that hard & very hard in DMC3 & Dante Must Die in DMC must've paid off
 

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